[MEGA] 2010-2011 Community Growing advice, tips, tricks, & experiences

[Prelude2TragedyII]

Hehe, thanks papasomni :D


Sorry AE, haven't been able to upload pics, having problems with my computer, I'm connected to the internet (MSN works, and I can surf the web with some special thing I have in BIOS).
I have pics, but can't upload em through the way Im using my comp, gotta figure out whats wrong with my internet so I can upload em...

As for fans, well , I just keep em all on now...so, I guess thats that.


Okay, I thought negative pressure was bad?
And is this all about getting fresh air into my closet? because there is fresh air constantly being blown into my closet.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

You need negative pressure in the closet partly because the carbon filter won't work properly. The ventilation needs to be spot on or it will just move air around the room which won't help.

I can upload the photo if you are willing to email it to me. Allowing usbto critique your grow room from a photo is probably one of the best things you can do for your plants. There must be a way. Maybe use a friend's computer?

 

[Prelude2TragedyII]

Well, got my comp fixed, Ill take those pics and upload em tonight .

Been having a bit of a problem though, I had my light down to about 16-18 inches above the plant, and my plant started showing signed of bleaching, the leaves are just blotched white in some spots, the tips are burned and curling upward (I haven't nuted for over a week and a half, and I've given it over 2 gallons of water at a ph of 7.0.)

The plants tips that are brown and curling up are crispy at the VERY tip, thats all, the rest of the small brown at the tip is moist still (though Im positive its dead, not going to make it back)

the light bleaching (or atleast I believe thats what it is) started happening two days ago, so I took the lights up to 20 inches, I checked the next day, and there was more bleaching so the lights are up 22 inches now.(Might have grown faster than i realized and got closer to the light)

Anyways. The plastic covering my closet keeping some light out is getting sucked in, so Im taking it that, thats negative pressure?

 

[Prelude2TragedyII]

I made this fan by hand, custom built, yesir....haha jk.Now you know how crappy my camera on my phone is.

The tubing appears to be not connected to exhaust in this picture, but it surely is, I connected it earlier today.

Well, this is pretty much how things are right now, except for the black plastic/tarp is help up better now, and it doesnt let half as much light in/out.

Remember, this is my first real grow, first setup, with no help, so try not to tear me apart too badly, Ill try to fix what ever seems wrong , just let me know what I should do.

(things are still a bit messy, Im in the process of cleaning it all up, made alot of mistakes while putting this in and just doing things off of the top of my head, really not the best idea.)[So to all of you who dont have a set up, and are planning on it, well, make sure to PLAN it out before you just go buy everything.lol

 

[Artificial Emotion]

A 600W HID should be about 24-31" from the mid height of the plants, so even if you raise your lights you might still have it too close, stunting plant growth. Remember the light intensity decreases in accordance to the inverse square law. So you need to get the light as close as possible without raising temps too high and increasing beyond light saturation point (any closer and the plants won't benefit whatsoever).

Get rid of the taller oscillating fan blowing into the grow room and put it inside the grow closet and point it at the plants rather than the light. Also try and point the smaller one at the plant (it looks like it's pointed more at the light from the photo).

The carbon filter should be attached to the inline extractor fan so air is pulled from inside the grow closet through the carbon filter and up into the loft.

At some point you could use a fan to pull air through the air cooled hood and outside the closet area. Ducting would need to come out the other end and also out of the closet so air from inside the closet isn't being pulled out.

Also has your closer been completely light tight during the lights off period at night? Do you always have the door to the closet open so that light leaks through? Your plants need complete darkness during the lights off period otherwise you're plants will do one of three things - a) won't flower, b) will be stressed and hermie or c) yield low.

 

[Prelude2TragedyII]

Yes , it's been in complete dark, I have a blackout blanket over my window/blinds. I also have black tarp lining the closet walls, the only reason it leaks like that in the pic is because I have the doors pushed apart about 12 inches, when lights go off I usually just close it to about 1 - 2 inches and its doesnt get light. plus I only use a 18 watt bulb to light my room, so any light that would get in the closet would be insignificant.

K, well I have it 22 inches from the plant right now, and its 75% of 600watts. So thats what? 450watts?

If I get rid of that black osilating fan and just put it in the closet , I have nothing pushing fresh air into my closet.
and passive air intake really is pretty crappy in this situatuion, so I dont think I'll be doing that, because temps would just go straight back to hell, Ive finally got them down to 79-84 degrees.

And as I've said before, The smaller black fan inside the closet is blowing at the plant. The white larger fan is blowing at the light, other wise the air in the closet just gets warm and stale and doesnt move around, at all.
Why would I need 2 fans pointed at a plant? That seems like a bit much. Especially when they're already blowing around like crazy because of the one small fan.

The carbon filter is connected to two inline fans which work on extracting air.

I have a fan blowing at the light due to the fact that I dont have anything cooling the heat from the light anyways, and if I just let the light sit there with the fan not blowing at it, temps get about 3-5 degrees hotter, if I take out the fan from the outside of the closet, they rise yet another 3-5 degrees and Im back to 88-90 degrees.
I dont think Ill be able to cool my hood with inline fans and duct work because Ive run out of outlets to run duct work or put them to get air, I can't take the air to another room or have air come in from another room. Or am I confused about what your trying to say.

 

[DavisK4high247]

Calcium will lower the Ph of your soil or more like make it neutralized more to around 7 but if you use to much calcium then you could get a ph over 8 but thats easy to fix with some nitrogen,remmeber to add some potassium and phosporus,especially potassium as it helps to get the water up through the plant stems to the leaves and makes the stems and stuff stiffer dur to the water in them...just some basic shit everyone including you already know but I thought i would put that out there for someone who does not know...good luck with your grows...

 

[Artificial Emotion]

Yes , it's been in complete dark, I have a blackout blanket over my window/blinds. I also have black tarp lining the closet walls, the only reason it leaks like that in the pic is because I have the doors pushed apart about 12 inches, when lights go off I usually just close it to about 1 - 2 inches and its doesnt get light. plus I only use a 18 watt bulb to light my room, so any light that would get in the closet would be insignificant.

The light still could cause an issue. People quite painstakingly fix light leaks the size of pin holes and although they might go over the top it is still important to have complete darkness. If you are determined to have a light then I would suggest a green coloured energy saving CFL light that will fit into the socket like as a normal light does.

K, well I have it 22 inches from the plant right now, and its 75% of 600watts. So thats what? 450watts?

Why not put it on 600W but raise it a little more? Can you please measure the ambient temperature in the room your closet is situation in (not the grow room itself)?

If I get rid of that black osilating fan and just put it in the closet , I have nothing pushing fresh air into my closet.

You won't need it to push the air inside the closet. You need to set up the ventilation in the closet properly and everything will fall into place (e.g. there being sufficient negative pressure to suck air in through a passive intake rather than sit a makeshift oscillating fan blowing air into the room. You need to close the door and cut a hole in it at the correct size (not any old size) so that you have the right negative pressure in the closet. If you open the door like that you won't (and don't) have adequate negative pressure.

and passive air intake really is pretty crappy in this situatuion

It should be fine. I've seen plenty of grow rooms similar to yours using this system. If the room is sealed in the right way you'll get negative pressure like you need and you'll notice the air being sucked through the vent nicely. You'll see what I mean and be pleasantly surprised. Trust me.

so I dont think I'll be doing that, because temps would just go straight back to hell

If you set up the grow room properly it will help. Also setting up the air cooled hood will help once you've done that. You can raise the light further.

The white larger fan is blowing at the light, other wise the air in the closet just gets warm and stale and doesnt move around, at all.

You shouldn't need a fan blowing at the light. If this is needed to reduce temps it just shows your ventilation in the grow room as a whole isn't set up right.

Why would I need 2 fans pointed at a plant?

I don't know how powerful or large your oscillating fans are but lots of people have two oscillating fans pointed at their plants. The more 'wind' on your plants the thicker the stems will be and the stronger and healthier your plant will be. This is one of the main reasons why cannabis plants outside have much thicker and stronger stems. I myself use two oscillating fans.

I dont think Ill be able to cool my hood with inline fans and duct work because Ive run out of outlets to run duct work or put them to get air, I can't take the air to another room or have air come in from another room. Or am I confused about what your trying to say.

I think you might be slightly confused about what I mean. Think of the air-cooled hood ventilation system being separate (you need a separate inline fan just for the air-cooled hood). Connect this to the air-cooled hood with ducting and attach some more ducting to the other side of the air-cooled hood which you can trail the outside of the closet.



It seems as if you are having to use fans because your ventilation set up (since you said temps rise significantly without them and this indicates a problem).

 

[Prelude2TragedyII]

Trust me, theres not enough light leak to do anything. Ive sat in that closet for 10 mintues waiting for my eyes to adjust to the light and I still counldnt see a damn thing except the green indicator light on my ballast.
My room is always dark, I have problems seeing around it with the little light I do use (which is ponted in a corner so it doesnt really light up the hole room.)

Anyways. Well, because Im using 450, and I'm already seeing light bleaching at 22 inches, I dont wanna set it at 600 until all of this stupid duct work and airflow is worked out, and finished with.

And my room is 76-80 degrees.

Im not going to cut a hole in my door that size, we've already discussed this, the size of a hole would be quite significant and obvious to catch with the eyes. Which is not what Im going for.

The black oscilating fan pushing into the room is 370 cfm, the inline fans them selves are 475 each.
your telling me to put a fan with 300cfm blowing on my plant? I mean, that little black fan next to it pushed the plant around like its in a storm. I dont see why theres a need to push the plant around so much, yes, I know, it breaks parts of the stem which in turn makes it stronger and maybe wider, allowing more nutrients to flow through. I usually do that by hand, super cropping the branches, rolling them in my figers till the break inside a little. works fine for me.

Again, I can't cut a hole that size in my closet door, I'd rather cut an 6 inch hole, and buy a 6 inch inline fan and pull air into the closet rather than cut a 40 inch box in my closet door and consider it 'passive air intake'

Honestly, you still haven't explained to me WHY , this is such an issue.
and if you did, it either didnt stick with me bcause it didnt make sense, or I just dont get why my setup is just soooo wrong.


No, I know that if I were to cool my hood I would need a seperate duct work /holes / areas for it, and like I told you before, I can't run duct into other rooms, I can't run it out my window , or in my window, Ive exhausted the few options I do have to the extent that I can.
I'd have to get a peice of glass cut for my hood if I wanted to do that anyways.


And yes, my temps rise when I dont have that fan pushing air into my closet , and my temps rise when I dont have a fan pushing air from the light up towards the exhaust fan,

Guess Im just stupid and confused at this point. I dont get why everything I have is completely wronggggggggg.

 

[Prelude2TragedyII]

Didn't say I was unwilling to cut holes in my closet,
But if you recall ,
We did discuss passive air intake, and the size of the hole I would need to cut in my closet would be around 40 inches, Im sorry, but Im not cutting my closet door inhalf to get a passive intake.

I still dont understand how a small 6 inch hole with an inline fan pulling air into my closet is Any different than blowing air into the closet from a small crack inbetween the doors.

Are you Assuming I dont have negative pressure or do you know this for a fact?

 

[Artificial Emotion]

sorry the whole post didn't come up. I had to type it all out again:

When I say 2 oscillating fans on the plants I meant small ones. One that big is overkill, so keep it if you want but most people use two smaller ones. It's not to snap the stem if that's what you meant. Just to simulate the wind. If you can get it so it's somewhat like what the wind outside might be then that's what you want.

If you're not going to cut a hole because you're worried it will catch the eyes (which I assume means you'll get caught) then you have to accept that the closet and situation is not going to allow you to grow properly and you'll end up with a second rate grow room (no offence, I'm just trying to help mate). If you say you can cut a 6" hole, then by all means do that, but don't have an extractor fan and an intake fan of the same spec. The reason why you need to do this is because you need negative pressure in your closet. This is important for the functioning of your carbon filter and grow room as a whole.

You only need one inline extractor fan. Not two in a row one after the other.

You don't need to run ducting into other rooms to use your air cooled hood. You can, if you want, connect the extraction ducting through the air cooled hood as a last resort if you must.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

We did discuss passive air intake, and the size of the hole I would need to cut in my closet would be around 40 inches, Im sorry, but Im not cutting my closet door inhalf to get a passive intake.

Did I say it had to be around 40 inches (I don't remember if I told you the passive intake hole area has to be 2-3 times the area of the extractioin hole or not)? It would only need to be the equivalent of 10 by 10 inches if a square if 2 times the area.

 

[Prelude2TragedyII]

I had thought we talked about it being around 40-56 inches, Idk, Maybe Im crazy.

I have a 7 inch hole, so wouldnt it need to be like, 14-21 inches.

 

[Arobskittle]

just exaust through the attic with the inline fan and the air will seep in through the cracks under the door. maybe install some slats that look like part of the door. If you have enough air blowing out through the filter you wont have smell issues, and the temps will be kept in check.

prefilter-----LIght------fan----- carbon filter------attic
>>>>>>>>>airflow>>>>>>>>>>>>
you could just have the fan suck air from above/near the light

 

[Artificial Emotion]

I had thought we talked about it being around 40-56 inches, Idk, Maybe Im crazy.

I have a 7 inch hole, so wouldnt it need to be like, 14-21 inches.

I think the problem is (no offence) that you're confused about the area of a circle in this case. The area = pi * (radius)^2

I thought you were using an 8 inch hole for the extraction? Anyway, if it's 7 inches, that's:

area = 3.142 * 3.5^2 = 3.142 * 12.25 = 38.5 square inches

So, because the area of the intake hole needs to be 2-3 times larger, you need an area of 77 square inches if it's twice the area of the exhaust hole. If you had a square cut in the door to the closet for an intake it would be 8.8 inches by 8.8 inches. If it were a circle this would be a diameter of 10 inches for the same area. I don't believe I said it needed to be 40 inches

The intake needs to be of the right size so the pressure and airflow in the room is correct. Relying on air seepingg through cracks etc. is far from ideal.

 

[Prelude2TragedyII]

Alright, well, it's been growing pretty well, lots and lots of hairs (atleast to me, + its my first grow)

Been having a few problems though. My plants leaves have been wilting a great deal, and yellowing, once they droop down the stem turns purple, they get weak and fall off with a touch or by them self.

Im wonder if this is a deficiency problem, or too much nutes?
I thought I was giving too many nutes.

Tips of the leaves were dying and were staying moist (not crispy), they were curling upwards. (heat?)

Ive been watering with about 6.0.6.5 with nutes, and about 6.5-7 when Im just giving straight water. Nutes come every 2nd-3rd watering (6-12 days depending.)

Some areas seem to be showing symptoms of light bleaching.
Some areas of the plant just have white blotches on their leaves.

Now, I searched for spider mites, just to be sure, but didnt find any (10X magnifying glass) ...

Plants looking a bit odd, Im not sure if its just because Ive never experienced a plant flower before and dont know what to expect, or if things are fine and Im just worrying too much about it...

Would the air from under the doors that would be pulled in be significant?


I've been noticing that my plant still doesn't smell at all...
Im not sure whats up with my carbon filter , I have it sucking through and blowing out the exhaust, but Im finding quite a bit of dust with black specs in it (im thinking material from carbon filter.)

Anyways, thanks , I appreciate the info.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

^ pics please. It's one thing describing symptoms but a pic speaks a thousands words. You can get nutrient lockout so that you get an apparent deficiency whilst giving too much of a given nutrient to the plant. So, it might not be the result of you adding too little fertilizer like you suggested. Yellowing of the leaves can be caused by quite a few things, so a picture is essential for an accurate diagnosis.

As for the airflow coming through the cracks. Are you prepared to measure the area of the crack so that it's 2-3 times the area of the exhaust hole? If so, and you can keep it in the same position at all times then do it if you must, but obviously actually having a dedicated passive intake hole is better (although you seem to not want to do this from what you've written).

Good airflow across the plants is essential and therefore having an intake at the bottom of the room so that the air flows from the bottom intake across the room to the top, going past the plants, is much better than just having the door open as a botch job.

Bad airflow/ventilation is the number one reason cannabis growers get poor results indoors. This is more important that you think!

 

[Prelude2TragedyII]

Well, I was gonna take a pic but all I've got is my phone, so it'd be crappy quality, and you probably wouldn't be able to distigush between different deficiencies. But Ill try to take a pic tonight when the lights come on for the 12/12.

I was just asking about the cracks under the door, I believe someone was saying I should cover them, didnt know if the cracks under the door can have a significant ammount of air pass through if they(the doors) are touching/sitting on the floor.

Anyways , I dont mind cutting ahole thats 10 inches, wouldn't bother me, I just dont have the equipment to cut a hole in a solid wood door.
though I am going to try, and the crack inbetween the doors goes from 10 inches at the bottom , to 1 1/2 inches at the top. the door is 7 or 7 1/2 ft tall. (if that makes any sense, is that enough to let air in while I try to find a way to cut the hole or...what?

And Ive notices, when I take that black fan and put it inside the closet instead of having it push air inside, the temps rise about 3 degrees on average.

ill try to get some pics posted in a few hrs.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

I would definitely take the time and spend the money on the tools on cutting that hole. Just do whatever it takes.

Also you don't need two extractor fans in series, just one.

 

[mr.muncheez]

Dude, it looks like your over-fertlizing to me, all your tips are burnt. If you haven't already done so, I would invest in a TDS pen and PH pen, ONLY use clean purified water that has a PPM of 0. Tap water contains all kinds of crap, my tap water is 434 ppm's straight out of the tap. I never ever give my babies tap water, I buy water. Also, less is always better when it comes to nutes. I use Humbolt County's 3 part Grow,Bloom, Micro, I use flavorfulv, Humbolt Roots, Hygrozym, and CalMag during Veg, then during bloom, I hit them twice w/ Bushmaster in the beginning of flowering. Rest of flower cycle I use the Grow,Bloom, Micro, Hygrozyme, Flavorfulv & Ginormous. Calmag as needed. 3 weeks from harvest I hit them w/ Gravity, then I flush w/ plain water and Humbolt's Honey ES until harvest. Get yourself a grow chart that has all the weeks laid out and what your PPM's should be. I keep my PH at 6.5-6.7. Currently I have a grow of Sour Diesel, Purple Kush & a White Widow cross, I am only vegging my clones right now, next week, I will put in the Metal Halide. I am waiting for the outside temps to drop a bit more. If your closet temps are too high, it slows growth to a crawl because the plant is just trying to survive. Overall, nice first time grow. Just keep learning from any mistakes you make and keep reading all you can. I've been producing my own medicine now for a few years and I still feel like a newbie, because it is a hobby that you constantly learn new things and sometimes still make mistakes along the way. OVER GROW THE GOV'T!!