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MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support - 5)

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Im doing standard CBT stuff btw not mindfulness right now. This is easier since its more straightforward but I just find it hard to apply sometimes.

Is rumination truly a "risk factor" for depression given that it often occurs after the depression itself occurs. I feel like a lot of these things are written for the 80-90% (just throwing out a number I don't really know what exact number) who have identifiable factors such as "real stress" coming from a job or divorce or whatever you name it.

Id like to restrict the population to the people who DID NOT get depression or anxiety through psychological stress BUT got it directly through the cortisol elevation stuff you just mentioned. I know wiki had that article about endogenous depression but nowhere have I seen an article about how to actually use CBT when the problem did not begin with stress. A lot of the examples I see are very basic and discuss "real stressors" and they are just difficult to connect to if you know what I mean. So many articles just say CBT as a generic term but nothing describes what to do and the psychologists ive seen havent been very good at tailoring it to me.

They just say "manage" it and then I leave never to see them again as that just triggers a bunch of negativity I don't need.

But maybe thats why a lot of places suggest meds and therapy rather than just one.

I have talked to a doctor who said that at least within his patient population the vast majority of people have gone to him due to stressors and that I am an exception where stress at a psychological level did not originate the anxiety.

This is really the something I need to know: lets say I just wake up feeling depressed or more so right no anxious. But as far as I examine I dont see many thoughts behind it--its just there. What exactly did you do in these moments. I should be clear that the part of the rumination about the past etc I don't really engage in. I hardly think about MDMA. Im more concerned with the solution.
 
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Remind me again of how your LTC started?

Re: chronic stress vs. LTCs from a single night of drug use, I think one answer is that the chronic stress and the drug can both shift the biology towards similar states (effects on hippocampus neurons for example, maybe on the comedown there is a shortage of serotonin signaling and there is some atrophy of those neurons that aren't being used).

So what may take years for chronic stress to do, MDMA etc can do much faster if the biological stars align. A blatant example would be if somebody has a 1000% cortisol spike while on MDMA, and this combos with altered serotonin signaling and such to produce a more potent effect on hippocampus neurons.

At the molecular level, the particular neurons don't necessarily care about whether a signal comes along that originated from an external stressor or originated from neurophysiology induced by MDMA (the hippocampal neurons can atrophy and depression/anxiety can ensue either way).

In the same vein, the hippocampal neurons don't care whether a pro-growth signal from ie BDNF comes along from SSRIs or cardio.

One point with generalized anxiety disorder (GAD) is that oftentimes people are anxious with no identifiable reason. People may have magnified anxiety over stuff that would have normally given them a bit of anxiety, but anxiousness without any real external cause is a major symptom.

Re: rumination as a risk factor for depression, I think what they mean by this is that people who develop MDD often have a history of rumination/over analyzing.

It would be hard to separate people who are stressed from external factors and people who just have cortisol issues, but one piece of evidence would be depression in people who take glucocorticoids for medical reasons.

I am glad that you're doing CBT though.
 
Cotcha Yankinov said:
Remind me again of how your LTC started?

Re: chronic stress vs. LTCs from a single night of drug use, I think one answer is that the chronic stress and the drug can both shift the biology towards similar states (effects on hippocampus neurons for example, maybe on the comedown there is a shortage of serotonin signaling and there is some atrophy of those neurons that aren't being used).

So what may take years for chronic stress to do, MDMA etc can do much faster if the biological stars align. A blatant example would be if somebody has a 1000% cortisol spike while on MDMA, and this combos with altered serotonin signaling and such to produce a more potent effect on hippocampus neurons.

At the molecular level, the particular neurons don't necessarily care about whether a signal comes along that originated from an external stressor or originated from neurophysiology induced by MDMA (the hippocampal neurons can atrophy and depression/anxiety can ensue either way).

In the same vein, the hippocampal neurons don't care whether a pro-growth signal from ie BDNF comes along from SSRIs or cardio.

One point with generalized anxiety disorder (GAD) is that oftentimes people are anxious with no identifiable reason. People may have magnified anxiety over stuff that would have normally given them a bit of anxiety, but anxiousness without any real external cause is a major symptom.

Re: rumination as a risk factor for depression, I think what they mean by this is that people who develop MDD often have a history of rumination/over analyzing.

It would be hard to separate people who are stressed from external factors and people who just have cortisol issues, but one piece of evidence would be depression in people who take glucocorticoids for medical reasons.

I am glad that you're doing CBT though.
Click to expand...

It technically started after drinking 2 weeks after using MDMA. I thought I had recuperated from the initial insult completely as I felt fine a few days after the MDMA but this essentially reactivated all the *same* symptoms. I did not have HPPD ever. Visual snow+tinnitus resulted during my SSRI trial which like I said before was likely way too early (I can't remember exactly but I started it between 1-2 months after this began) given that my serotonin system was probably sensitive as hell back then.

Buspar is something id consider but given its a 5-HT1A agonist I'm concerned what effect it would have on visual snow or tinnitus.
 
It has been 5 months since my LTC started. I feel like my LTC came differently than most people. The worst decision of my life was taking 200mg of pressed MDMA, after waiting an hour and a half or so it still hadn't hit me. The worst decision came when I took out my gram of coke and started taking key bumps. I kept taking key bumps until almost 3/4 of the gram was gone. I started feeling sick, having chest pain, anxiety and panic, my heart started racing and I began to have muscle spasms everywhere. The whole time I was conscious and able to understand clearly, yet i knew I could faint and die any minute. I didn't go to the ER cause my friends convinced me that i was gonna be just fine and that i was just having a bad comedown. After that for about 3 days I was feeling nauseous and dizzy, then I recuperated fully for about 3 days and then thats when my LTC started. for the first 2 months I was in and out of the emergency room thinking i was having a heart attack or stroke. Funny that all that time I blamed it on the cocaine. I never mentioned the MDMA to doctors because i thought all this time it was the cocaine that messed me up. but I found very little research and stories relating to cocaine LTC. It wasn't until after the second or so month that I realized it was the MDMA that had caused me all these symptoms (head pressure, head pain, palpitations, feeling of an abnormal heartbeat, chest pain, muscle spasms, muscle pain, muscle tingling/pins and needles, nauseous, anxiety, panic attacks, vertigo, dizziness, etc. I seriously think I would still be out there rolling if i hadn't mixed the MDMA. I had never gotten a bad comedown from MDMA. every roll was great until i started mixing. My biggest fear is that my muscle spams will never go away. I read some post about a guy who has had them for 10 years. I don't think I can live under such conditions for that long. I have had severe anxiety and depression for 5 months and I don't know how much longer I can take. Surprisingly I stayed working full time this whole time and think the stress from work could be hindering me from recuperating. I would like some advice on quitting my job and taking a break and go back to live with the parents. Has anyone done this? and did it seems to speed up the recuperating process? Did anyone here recover from muscle spasms? and if so how long did it take for spasms to stop? I feel like my symptoms are more physical than mental, and I wouldn't have anxiety if my physical symptoms weren't present. For this reason I still think that the cocaine has as much or more to do with my symptoms than the MDMA. What do you guys think, was it really the MDMA, a mixture of the two?

Thank you in advance for replying to my questions and wish you all luck in your recovery, just know you are not alone and not the only one going through this.

Much love.
 
Muscle spasms as in "fasciculations"? These tend to be rapid pulsing of muscles, often visible beneath the skin. Does that sound like what's happening?
 
Yeah, involuntary twitching, sometimes feel like a heart pulse of their own if they occur on my upper body, specially on my back when I'm laying down. Last for about 2 seconds but sometimes like 10. Lately it's been predominantly on my legs but they occur all over my body, face, hands, back, etc. I used to fear and thought I had ALS among many other crazy things I found on the internet. that was back when I had really bad anxiety, I know now that it is drug induced and I'm not gonna die from it, but it still brings me bad anxiety.
 
Cotcha / all?

Any thoughts on what effects going under general anaesthetic could possibly have on an LTC?

I likely need some surgery sooner rather than later but am worried whether being put under could push me back in my recovery...

Love to hear thoughts or experiences.
 
@Go Easy I had my mouth and gums under anesthesia for tooth extraction. Nothing serious. I was very paranoid that it would make my headache worse or mess up my vertigo even more. I was laying down at the dentist room debating if to continue with the procedure or not. My cheeks and gums were numb for 6 or so hours of course, and I got slight panic attacks overthinking that the anesthesia was bound to have a bad reaction with my body. It never did and the anesthesia wore off. My LTC made me overthink things and that's was got me very worried and caused a slight panic. But that was it, no bad reaction.
 
Go Easy said:
Cotcha / all?

Any thoughts on what effects going under general anaesthetic could possibly have on an LTC?

I likely need some surgery sooner rather than later but am worried whether being put under could push me back in my recovery...

Love to hear thoughts or experiences.
Click to expand...

I had general anesthesia in December 2016 because of a nasal surgery. Anesthesia time was about 1 hour with 2-3h waking up time.
I can't remember that it affected me in a significant range. Maybe my mood was a bit affected but I wouldn't worry to much about it.
Maybe it's possible to undergo your surgery in local anesthesia, would be interesting if you told us what kind of surgery it is.
Sorry for keeping it so short, I'm very tired today.
 
@Amml

Did you do any therapy (CBT or some other one) with a psychologist or was it just the SSRI you took and curcumin later that healed you to where you are now?

--

Anyways, one barrier if not the single LARGEST barrier I am finding in regards to trying to use CBT or any psychological skills is the time component and always thinking about when the effects will be felt. It sort of makes it all seem stressful and overwhelming in itself. I find that I seem to take it "too seriously" sometimes and wonder if that is another thing. Where I forcefully try to cut off the rumination like pulling the plug on a light. Then I'm like forcing myself not to ruminate and sometimes I feel a bit worse.
 
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Anyone experience LTC, but without depression and anxiety? My dpdr almost vanished after I've started looking at dpdr as an anxiety instead some creepy alien condition. But short-memory issues and concentration are bad...

Why there's people with

Panic Attacks, Depression, Physical anomalies, anxiety

And I'm here with
No panic attacks, no depression or anxiety, but bad memory and no concentration?
 
@socrilus:
I am in psychotherapy now and had been during the whole LTC (actually not for this reason) but I always felt like being trapped because of the depression. It really was the SSRI that got me out of that state. I also never talked with any therapist about my LTC which was a bad idea because maybe someone could have helped me. Maybe because I didn't believe psychotherapy would help me, I was having actually no emotions at this time, even when I had a car accident, no fear, just nothing.

I'm still having some problems with emotions and social bindings but they are not LTC related anymore.

Curcumin only has a very subtile psychological effect on me, but when I take it I notice that my brain works better in term of memory and cognitive abilities. The main reason I take it is because it raises BDNF, serotonin and dopamine levels in the brain and showed very good results in studies in term of brain protection and regeneration it terms of stress related impairments. It also showed that curcumin fully reverse the negative effects of stress on the hippocampus - I believe the LTC also causes a hell load of stress - and the hippocampus is a very important brain area in terms of regeneration, because it is one of the regions that produces new brain cells and is also important for memory function.
So even if I don't notice any reliable effect, I would still take it because of those reasons.

I also think now that the 1 month treatment with SSRI's was enough for me because I microdosed Iboga a few times afterwards, which is on itself a SSRI. But I wouldn't recommend Iboga when you are in a current bad state, it really also can make it worse (experienced it on my own).
 
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ZeroLuck said:
Anyone experience LTC, but without depression and anxiety? My dpdr almost vanished after I've started looking at dpdr as an anxiety instead some creepy alien condition. But short-memory issues and concentration are bad...

Why there's people with

Panic Attacks, Depression, Physical anomalies, anxiety

And I'm here with
No panic attacks, no depression or anxiety, but bad memory and no concentration?
Click to expand...

Bad memory and no concentration may come from hippocampus impairment. The hippocampus is very regenerative and it's regeneration can be speeded up very effective by doing sports. In my case the memory got better when I felt emotionally better. Also worrying 24/7 can impair the memory and concentration.
 
Thanks for the reply, so people memory/concentration gets back to normal eventually?
 
Amml said:
I had general anesthesia in December 2016 because of a nasal surgery. Anesthesia time was about 1 hour with 2-3h waking up time.
I can't remember that it affected me in a significant range. Maybe my mood was a bit affected but I wouldn't worry to much about it.
Maybe it's possible to undergo your surgery in local anesthesia, would be interesting if you told us what kind of surgery it is.
Sorry for keeping it so short, I'm very tired today.
Click to expand...

Thanks Amml, that's put my mind at ease a little. Surgery is for the throat - I've had a benign growth scraped off my vocal chords a few years back which I can tell needs attending to again as my voice is starting to wane. I've noticed it's been on the way out again for over 12 months so I can probably fit a few more months of recovery in in the meantime.
 
Go Easy said:
Thanks Amml, that's put my mind at ease a little. Surgery is for the throat - I've had a benign growth scraped off my vocal chords a few years back which I can tell needs attending to again as my voice is starting to wane. I've noticed it's been on the way out again for over 12 months so I can probably fit a few more months of recovery in in the meantime.
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like a surgery that won't need long anesthesia time. An 1 hour long anesthesia is still nothing to the brain compared some surgeries that take sometimes up to 12h or longer.
Actually I also was concerned about brain damage and anesthesia before my operation, but after some research it showed that a short one is really only a minor harm to the brain.
The studies that I found that showed brain damage were all done with prenatal rats or rats in the age of a few days. That would be like giving it to a baby child. The adult brain is much more resistant in this term.
Eat well and healthy before so the brain gets enough nutrients and antioxidants
 
crucial said:
Yeah, involuntary twitching, sometimes feel like a heart pulse of their own if they occur on my upper body, specially on my back when I'm laying down. Last for about 2 seconds but sometimes like 10. Lately it's been predominantly on my legs but they occur all over my body, face, hands, back, etc. I used to fear and thought I had ALS among many other crazy things I found on the internet. that was back when I had really bad anxiety, I know now that it is drug induced and I'm not gonna die from it, but it still brings me bad anxiety.
Click to expand...

I see, yes they are very commonly posturally dependent, in the legs when sitting down and that sort of thing.

But definitely don't worry about the ALS type stuff. Fasciculation issues after amphetamines is pretty common. It can help to know that they're harmless though.
 
Go Easy said:
Cotcha / all?

Any thoughts on what effects going under general anaesthetic could possibly have on an LTC?

I likely need some surgery sooner rather than later but am worried whether being put under could push me back in my recovery...

Love to hear thoughts or experiences.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry about going under - I did fine myself with a nasal surgery a few years ago (and just went under two more times recently without issue).
 
So I was just rxed Hydroxyzine to use as needed

Seemed to really knock me out and I felt kinda groggy but the next day my mood was better by a bit and obsessive thoughts were also lower.
 
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