Masculinity and Psychonautics?

[hamhurricane]

Stop me if I'm wrong, but I think if your reading these words right now your probably male. What is it about psychedelic exploration especially in the arena of esoteric designer drugs that attracts mostly men?

I know there are exceptions to every rule and maybe I have made an error in assuming that most of the people frequenting the psychedelic drugs forum are male, but I would go so far as to say every girl I know that has tried any of the Shulgin analogs has done so because they were offered by her drug nerd boyfriend. Not to say women do not understand and appreciate the psychedelic experience, I have always found it to be quite the opposite which is why I'm curious that more women do not seem actively involved in the psychedelic obsession [research, acquisition, experimentation, documentation] Is there something inherently masculine about psychedelic exploration?

 

[Damien]

Off the cuff I would say experimentations probably appeals to men's inherent desire for adventure whereas women are more prone to seek security. Just my .02.

 

[Xorkoth]

I have often wondered the same thing. The only females I know who are as into psychedelics as some of the guys I know I only know from Bluelight. I have met a few women who are into psychedelics, but they have just done the standard ones, and just a few good times (not saying that's a bad thing at all).

 

[fizzacyst]

Every female I know that uses drugs (outside of folks that just drink or whatever) enjoys all the esoteric designer compounds, or is at least curious enough about them to give them a shot. They just aren't plugged in to everything to the point where they could go and acquire them directly, it has to come from someone else; though I can also say that about almost all of my male friends.

I think most people would consider us all hippies though, so they might not really be representative of the general population.

My GF usually tries most of the things I do at some point. She just isn't really all that concerned with drugs in general, so its not much of a priority... and if there was something of interest its a lot easier to ask me to deal with it than to try to get connected herself. It takes a lot of time, interest, and not being a flake to get really good connections for many of these things, IME. If you aren't thinking about all this stuff all the time, why put in that much effort? I think that is part of it.

 

[psood0nym]

^Could have a poll? I posted something referring to this idea recently. I try to say "his or her" when speaking of the various aspects of what posters write, but I slip up sometimes and just write "his" because I picture most people in the psychedelics forum as male. More than other types of drugs psychedelics appeal to introspective-exploratory-adventuresome types, who are predominately male. As you said, there are of course females that are heavy into this shit, but I don't think it's controversial to assume they're outliers.

I was reading recently about male/female twins. Male's bodies undergo a huge surge of testosterone in the womb that transforms them into males, without it even xys will be mostly "female". Sharing the womb with their male counterparts during that surge tends to result in changes of behavior in the female twin--they tend to exhibit more exploratory and risk taking behaviors. Testosterone has strong neurodevelopmental effects that unsurprisingly are sometimes reflected in behavior. As an interesting aside, there are anatomical changes in the female twin's ears that destroy their ability to hear the higher frequency ranges that most females hear, which is an ability theorized to be an evolutionary adaptation that allows them to hear the cries of infants.

 

[feelgoodhit]

though i don't have a direct answer for you, i do think psychedelics have plugged me in much more directly to my feminine side.

 

[FreedomOfTheMind]

though i don't have a direct answer for you, i do think psychedelics have plugged me in much more directly to my feminine side.

I agree, although they have not turned me homosexual or anything like that (I am not saying that is a bad thing, AT ALL). PSYCHS tend to obliterate boundaries and render all dualities false. They have helped me realize how stupid and fucked up the male chauvinistic role of society is and how I want no part of it. I am a free spirit and free thinking human who has total freedom to think whatever I want and feel however I want and psychs broke this boundary for me and got me more in touch with my feminine side I guess you can say.

 

[feelgoodhit]

^ exactly. they haven't really TURNED me anything, but when mushrooms rendered all dualities false, they showed me the place of those dualities within myself & everyone else. in short, i got a crash course in gender equality.

 

[hamhurricane]

Its true, male or female its a rare breed that spends their time pining over virtually inaccessible psychedelic powders.

 

[fastandbulbous]

It's, IMO, linked to the inherent risk taking behaviour that testosterone promotes (men tend to be the ones behaving like fuckwits behind a steering wheel - driving at speeds of 120mph+). That said, one thing that seems to go hand in hand with such risk taking behaviour is a certain degree of competetiveness which in some can end up being expressed as rather sad insecurity & a desire to be looked up to - a sort of displaced alpha-male competetiveness that means the more inadequate the person, the more the need to show off with a big car, drive too fast etc (which, when you boil it down, turns cars etc into phallic substitutes for display purposes).

Women may take psychedelics or other drugs just as much, it's just that they don't seem to get involved with any dicksizing behaviour

 

[swilow]

*One reason could be the inherently violent and unsettled nature of males, dues to biochemical and social/cultural reasons; the ability to FEEL may be reduced, so the desire to experience is heightened. Many of the emasculating rites of tribal cultures are vastly misunderstood; for example, indigenous Australians of a particualr tribe have a rite wherein a boy goes into the desert with a spear, hunts, thinks, see's, etc and returns a man. Females aren't required to do this. Anthropologists obviously assumed that aspect reflected the sexism in our society- certain things being the sole domain of men. But it is often explained that a boy must find his (hu)MANness, whereas females innately have it. They are complete humans- we have to work to get there. This attitude is reflected by cultures that prohibit ayahuasca drinking by females; not so much because of some schism between men and "the weaker sex", but because it is not seen as neccesary for females to illuminate what is already illuminated.

*In our society, as we will notice, a lot of males will seek altered states for a few reasons; one being agression to conquer fear, another being desire for internal peace, something a lot of guys don't have, and yes indeed, another to prove their manhood. Why did Terence call a large mushroom dose 'heroic'? To be able to say, I survived existence without my ego, and fucking A, look at me now! woohoo, yee haa! Kinda strengthening, but I see no harm in that, as long as you are aware of the utter stupidity of it. Who here hasn't pushed the limits of something? I have done that on everything in life, why wouldn't I with drugs?

*Females take as many drugs as males; they just don't care to be all nerdy and talk constantly about it.


This is a good topic, I have wondered about this....I think a poll is in order, just to ascertain figures.

Its true, male or female its a rare breed that spends their time pining over virtually inaccessible psychedelic powders.

So we're all, like, freaks?


Sweet :D

 

[feelgoodhit]

^ interesting post, swilow (if that IS your real name ;])... especially the part about terrance. the irony there is, of course, the fact that he was always a vocal supporter of "the divine feminine"... seems like even if we try to avoid it, nature put us in this place where we can't... at least not completely.

 

[FreedomOfTheMind]

Well I think that this competition you guys speak of amongst males is also prevalent among females, although not as much. Its the 2nd circuit (emotional-territorial) being activated where the Ego comes into play.

I can think of many examples of this with females, such as a girl trying to dress nice and putting down a rival girl who is trying to get with her boyfriend or something like that, although this can happen with males also.

Basically, what I am trying to say is that Ego games are common to both genders, although due to societal/cultural reasons, it is more prevalent with males. Some males may not even realize it but our society has a lot to do with how we think and act, unless you de-condition yourself and remove your ego (temporarily), which psychedelics and long-term meditation can do.

I know I used to get hung up on Ego games when so-called "friends" (not my close circle of best friends, but even them sometimes) try and tempt you with something, maybe even subconciously, like showing off the fact that they got with a "hott" girl and due to my exploration with psychedelics and meditation, I view it as ego games and I just dont take offense because I know it only matter what I think about myself due to me being in control of forming my own reality.It is nice to have supportive people in your life on the same page as you, but only "you" know how you feel, so that is what should matter most. Many people in society are insecure and make up for it with Ego games such as described above.

Anyways, I do not think that most psychedelic drug users are prone to this behavior since pyschs de-condition one and show how fake and un-necessary these ego games are (for me at least, cant speak for other in this forum).

And to swillow about the tribal belief where women are considered "complete," that is VERY interesting since I always had the educated-assumption (coined by own term there) that women are more in touch with their feelings than males, FROM MY EXPERIENCE IN LIFE AND KNOWING PPL. However, this obviously doesnt go with everybody, since I am in touch with my feelings, but many men hide their feelings because its a societal/cultural tradition in the western-world, whether u believe it or not.

I find societal/cultural gender role to be fascinating and how they span generations and cultures throughout space and time. They can have such a subconscious impact on a person and are usually conditioned in the child at a young age and passed on througout the generations. Well If I have kids one day, which I plan to, I will make sure to try and erase these gender roles although they are affirmed throughout society.

Read Prometheus Rising, by Robert Anton Wilson, since he touches on may of these subjects.

Sorry for the ramble and detracting from the topic, this is just something that interests me.

 

[dbailey11]

I think it comes down to the masculine tendency to push boundaries whereas the feminine just isn't as interested in that sort of thing. As so posters have stated, when their girlfriends do these drugs it's with their boyfriends. Whereas a guy is more likely to go on a solo journey.

 

[dimensiontripping]

Well I think that this competition you guys speak of amongst males is also prevalent among females, although not as much. Its the 2nd circuit (emotional-territorial) being activated where the Ego comes into play.

I can think of many examples of this with females, such as a girl trying to dress nice and putting down a rival girl who is trying to get with her boyfriend or something like that, although this can happen with males also.

Basically, what I am trying to say is that Ego games are common to both genders, although due to societal/cultural reasons, it is more prevalent with males. Some males may not even realize it but our society has a lot to do with how we think and act, unless you de-condition yourself and remove your ego (temporarily), which psychedelics and long-term meditation can do.

I know I used to get hung up on Ego games when so-called "friends" (not my close circle of best friends, but even them sometimes) try and tempt you with something, maybe even subconciously, like showing off the fact that they got with a "hott" girl and due to my exploration with psychedelics and meditation, I view it as ego games and I just dont take offense because I know it only matter what I think about myself due to me being in control of forming my own reality.It is nice to have supportive people in your life on the same page as you, but only "you" know how you feel, so that is what should matter most. Many people in society are insecure and make up for it with Ego games such as described above.

Anyways, I do not think that most psychedelic drug users are prone to this behavior since pyschs de-condition one and show how fake and un-necessary these ego games are (for me at least, cant speak for other in this forum).

And to swillow about the tribal belief where women are considered "complete," that is VERY interesting since I always had the educated-assumption (coined by own term there) that women are more in touch with their feelings than males, FROM MY EXPERIENCE IN LIFE AND KNOWING PPL. However, this obviously doesnt go with everybody, since I am in touch with my feelings, but many men hide their feelings because its a societal/cultural tradition in the western-world, whether u believe it or not.

I find societal/cultural gender role to be fascinating and how they span generations and cultures throughout space and time. They can have such a subconscious impact on a person and are usually conditioned in the child at a young age and passed on througout the generations. Well If I have kids one day, which I plan to, I will make sure to try and erase these gender roles although they are affirmed throughout society.

Read Prometheus Rising, by Robert Anton Wilson, since he touches on may of these subjects.

Sorry for the ramble and detracting from the topic, this is just something that interests me.

addressing the societal/cultural gender role, through my experience and the way my father has viewed it is that men are SUPPOSE to take care of women. that women can be independent but most of the time they find their independence when dependent on men. I think a lot of the cultural stigma about gender roles is still very enforced, and i think that goes for a lot of explorative levels of thinking and experiencing. a lot of girls become succumbed to such ego games in society and rather than focus on breaking boundaries, which i sometimes see more in males, have subjected themselves almost entirely to the game. i have seen PLENTY of males do this as well. this hot guy, that bitchy girl and the sexual and power games that then ensue. i think our culture has sort of "boxed" us up in these ego games and removed us from exploring. from wearing brand named clothes to how the education system works, i think a lot of the reason why there are so many males that seek the psychedelic experience is that they are culturally less susceptible by status of "leadership" to the boxed in mindset of society.

like said about boyfriends being the catalyst for a lot of female psychedelic exploration, it seems society forces girls to need an extra push out of the bullshit.

 

[Icculus]

I'm not sexist and I don't want to come off that way, as all girls are different, but I've also noticed that generally the same is true with girls and music as well. Most girls tend to listen to generic top 40 music unless their bf turns them on to good stuff.

It probably has a lot to do with society and how girls are treated growing up. I could probably go on some sociological ramble, but i'm not in the mood.

 

[feelgoodhit]

I'm not sexist and I don't want to come off that way, as all girls are different, but I've also noticed that generally the same is true with girls and music as well. Most girls tend to listen to generic top 40 music unless their bf turns them on to good stuff.

It probably has a lot to do with society and how girls are treated growing up. I could probably go on some sociological ramble, but i'm not in the mood.

so this i absoloutely, completely disagree with. if anything, i find the complete opposite to be true most of the time - i usually find males tend towards music that plays to their insecurities (such as top-40 rap), while females like music that speaks to them emotionally. in fact, as someone with mostly females as my friends, i can say that much of the more obscure music i enjoy was recommended by females.

i'm not saying that this is always the case, but certainly i don't think Icculus' statement is either. personally, i love all music that's put in front of me, but i find most guys i know are more closed than that.

 

[swilow]

^Yeah, I mean generalising is usually based on the simple conditions that one may have encountered....I know girls who love Britney Spears and Ozric Tenctacles (Miss Swilow for example )

One thing that intrigues me is the fact that males allegedly don't have very specific speech centres of the brain; ie. during EKG or whatever, electrical signals kinda jump from place to place when a male is talking. For a female, it is more distinct, and related to a specific SECTION OF THE BRAIN AND DOESN'T ALTER. Psychedelics present things in a non-verbal language which COULD be comfortable-r for those (males) who find verbal spoken language relatively alien. It is suggested that women first invented language as a means of sharing information about plants, soils, growth cycles, whereas for the 'hunting-man' pointing and gesturing was enough. I don't know if these ideas mean much, but they interest me at least

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

gooood thread, i'll have to ponder for a bit

 

[feelgoodhit]

It is suggested that women first invented language as a means of sharing information about plants, soils, growth cycles, whereas for the 'hunting-man' pointing and gesturing was enough. I don't know if these ideas mean much, but they interest me at least

more terence, huh swillsie? :D