Lysergamides MAPS Found Liable in LSD Death

[Mjäll]

Could you elaborate on this, her health improved? How so?

I remember reading some time ago now about something similar happening I thought, although in that case the person did actually die, I can't remember if other substances were involved although obviously they could have been. I guess they probably were, realistically. Although it doesn't seem totally unbelievable to me either that LSD could be just very slightly more dangerous in accidental-ingestion sky high doses than some other classical psychedelics, being that it is just more stimulating than some, if only marginally. Maybe that's a wrong perception, I dunno.


Anyway sad to hear this both for the fact that someone died and the fact that every drug related death is going to be used as ammunition for prohibitionists regardless of the reality of the situation. On the other hand MAPS have a very large responsibility because of this, which they are, obviously, plainly aware of, on top of their duty of care that they obviously have by default, and it sounds very much like they did not meet this duty.

I'm sure nobody involved wanted anyone to die, but man... I was almost just gonna leave it there but I had to just go back and check the article again. MAPS' response to this is immensely frustrating and IMO WORSE than the actual negligence. Again, I want to believe there was genuinely no malicious intent here or even deliberate carelessness, sometimes people do die unexpectedly in circumstances that, retrospectively, could have been avoided, and should be avoided from that point forward. But MAPS were found "partially guilty". That's fair. They ARE partially responsible. Someone died on their watch, there is just no way around that fact - no matter what good intentions they might have had to avoid that kind of thing from happening. The correct response would be to accept responsibility, face whatever punishment was dealt, and publicly implement changes so that everyone knows that they learned from this and accept that it should not have happened - and so that everyone can see that an organisation seemingly involved with something that many people are still quite wary of, is acting with integrity.

INSTEAD, they TRIED TO BLAME THE WOMAN WHO DIED, are going to challenge the verdict, thus drawing out the suffering for her surviving family, AND, for the most part, as far as I can tell, do not seem to have really accepted responsibility for what happened, but are just trying to shift blame onto whatever 3rd party organisations they were working with.

Frankly, it doesn't matter if these organisations were more responsible than MAPS itself, MAPS is still the most visible face of the movement for legitimising psychedelic drugs involved, and thus how they're perceived to respond to this event has far wider implications in the near and medium term future than the actual reality of how blame should be divided up. Someone died on their watch, they are at least partly responsible, and just a little more public remorse would not go amiss. The way they are acting is not a good look, to put it mildly, and undermines their own credibility, and, aside from being honestly just kinda callous and uncaring is just mind-numbingly short-sighted and IMHO just really kinda fucked up and unethical actually.

I get that yeah, the fine is a lot of money, I don't actually know much or anything about how MAPS' finances are looking, maybe there are real practical realities about how they can continue operating which are known to those involved in the trial and this is how they can justify acting in such a fucking shady way, but still... that just doesn't excuse it, IMO, even if it meant the demise of MAPS it would be because they let someone die, ultimately. Not because they didn't fight a bereaved family hard enough in court.

Wow that's bullshit

I didn't even read it because of my instinct that we don't need and shouldn't give a fuck about MAPS but now i'm even more confident in that assessment. We really don't need shady glammy "organizations" and legalization is a human right not some candyman stuff or fuel for individual heroism.

 

[Xorkoth]

Man, that's so disappointing. MAPS has done a lot of good but lately their responses to things happening that they were involved in are abysmal. They threaten to undermine all the progress they have helped make. Someone needs to find whoever in their PR department is making these decisions and slap some sense into them.

 

[Vastness]

Yeah... I will just add that having thought about it a little more, I dunno if I'm right to think this but the actions of this woman's family don't look that great either. There is obviously an inherent risk and an element of personal responsibility that does come into these situations, obviously not to the extent that the deceased should be made a defendant, like MAPS tried to, but without knowing this woman I wanna believe that most people who choose to do LSD or any other psychedelic would not be entirely happy with their death being used in a way that will essentially aid the enemies of drug law reform. The amount that they asked for and, indeed, have been awarded, also just strikes me as distasteful given the circumstances... Maybe I'd feel differently if it was someone I loved, admittedly, but... It's not gonna bring her back, they are essentially just profiting massively from her death, and MAPS being supposedly a nonprofit I can kinda see the perspective that it is also like suing a charity... maybe it's exactly like suing a charity. Especially if the amount is actually ruinous.

I get they are grieving though so, I dunno, maybe they get a pass... but this litigious culture that has the side effect of massively enriching those unlucky enough to lose a close family member, ostensibly still just to exact vengeance against an organisations that - in fairness - is probably under-resourced in the first place, largely as a result of the exact issues that they are trying to, somewhat, solve (prohibition) - just seems overall distasteful and kinda wrong.

Still though, once it actually happens, from MAPS' side I still can't see any good move except to pretty much capitulate, especially when it's apparently not the first time they've been more concerned about covering themselves than taking responsibility for anything that they enable, deliberately or not.. It does seem like they were negligent even if the standard is (just to play devil's advocate with myself and try to see a balanced view) maybe, arguably, somewhat unfairly high compared to, say, a venue for consuming more "socially acceptable" substances. They are definitely more in the wrong I think... but maybe I can kinda see the other side as well.

 

[RedRum OG]

I think his points is that MAPS has single-handedly pushed MDMA all the way through from scary illicit street drug, to stage 3 trials for psychotherapy medicine. Rick is Rick Doblin, the head of MAPS. MAPS has done a huge amount of work and is one of the big reasons why the ban on psychedelic medicine research, and the stigma against psychedelics, has been lifted and the climate has changed. Not the only ones, but a big leading reason.

I have way more of a problem with other organizations, who are patenting and trying to monetize psychedelics. MAPS isn't doing this. At least not to my knowledge.

The organization isn't perfect, but they've done a lot of good for the cause. Arguably more than any other organization.

Yeah, agreed. My comment was sort of from the angle of simple street orgs, and this is obviously way above that. But, to me, they may be tight up top, but goddamn are they loose butthole status when it comes to their lower level employees