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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

LSD storage and purity/potency issues.

probably meaningless jibberish compared to all the chemistry lessons above but:-
ive had heaps of blotters in my time and ive noticed that
1)When they are fresh, they are tasteless and with time they develop a taste
2)Mood is the key, i was tolerant to acid but one day i dumped a strawberry(black background) and have never felt such strong visuals even of the previous (1 week earlier), fresher strawberry. When i dropped it i was fresh from a big night sleep, not stoned and it was 11am and i never really found that daytripping did much for me. my friend was whingeing all day that he wanted another but i was fine, by that stage i was doubling my tabs and a single dose was my best trip ever.
3)When they are frsh, they are clean
4)the older they get, they leave you with 'acid gut' and i have had the 'iron blood' feeling off old trips but never a new one.
5)the LSD can survive the elements well unless it is decent exposure i.e heat (except moisture that screws it)
6)the tastleless trips seem to be a wavy, fun visual trip whereas the tasty one seem to just fuck your mind
My first trip was a smilie face and it tasted like shit, fucked up my head and took serious pursasion for me to take another, my luck PENGUIN
 
i was going to post this as its own thread, but ill put it here for now... lsd - physical, or not?
i have only used acid 4 times. the first yielded little effects. it was one full blotter, left for absorbtion in my mouth for nearly an hour, then swallowed. there was little if any visuals, there was a low tendency to giggle, and near the end of the trip (or what i called the end of that one, the 5 or 6 hour mark) some paranoia. initially i thought this was because of the quality of the trip (it was a black star september last year), or the dosage - as i picked up from somewhere that lsd works with bodyweight, and im fat for my height. however.. ive now concluded that more or less the cause of the ineffects was the fact that i wandered the city and parks with two friends, left to my own world, and had little time to sit and concentrate and let the visuals manifest themselves. simply put there was too much to take in.
the second time, i ate 1 and a half. this trip was far more intense, lasted at least 12 hours, and i got full visuals, self-realisations, there was definately a more noticable 'mindfuck' but there was virtually no physical effects. the trip was the recent 'easter islands'.
the third time, i ate one blotter, at a rave. i later combined it with mdma to experience my first candyflip. however i did experience the trip by itself before the mdma came into effect. i found i was swamped by the noise of people chatting, moving etc, and i couldnt hear the music. there was a very heavy feeling in my upper stomach and throat. as if i needed to vomit or burp, and this lasted the entire night, and well into the morning. i found that the visuals were once again weak, which i also conclude was because there was too much to take in. i was pretty uncomfortable for the entire night (im not sure if this was just the acid, or the mdma and lsd combined - however because i was uncomfortable before the mdma kicked in, i think it was the lsd). i actually had a bad time, and from this ive learnt acid is not an outside substance - for me its for a smaller, enclosed space. this was once again a 'easter island'
the fourth time, was half, then six hours later, another half. i found that for most of the first half, there was little physical effects, but later on in it (while travelling) i got the heavy needing to vomit feeling again. ive concluded that i get this feeling when im in a wide open space and there is just too much to take in. after i had the second half, the trip became quite mentally disturbing - and as this was only one trip (and not just a simple case of eating too much), ive decided that this was because of my mindset over the week beforehand, and likely the quality and or dose level of lsd on the blotter tab. this trip also lasted from 7pm til around 8am. this trip was a 'green alien(red background).'
so, is acid physical? or is it all in your head? i found that when feeling that 'i need to vomit or burp' feeling, i can sometimes burp with effort, but if i induce vomiting, i only dry-reach. is this an indication that i was merely thinking that i needed to vomit, and i didnt really need to?
i dunno how well ive explained my point, but anyone care to comment? :)
 
Best storage idea: In a glass jar placed in fridge or freezer.
Plastic can be penetrated by oxygen. Glass is does not leak oxygen!
 
so, is acid physical? or is it all in your head? i found that when feeling that 'i need to vomit or burp' feeling, i can sometimes burp with effort, but if i induce vomiting, i only dry-reach. is this an indication that i was merely thinking that i needed to vomit, and i didnt really need to?
i dunno how well ive explained my point, but anyone care to comment?
From what I understand, they still have no idea exactly HOW acid works, but when doing a brain scan on a person on acid, they found the brain's activity to be similar in the same areas that correspond with anxiety. This may support the reason you had some hallmark symptoms of anxiety, maybe? (This is all idle speculation)
When I used to have anxiety attacks, I always felt like I wanted to hurl, but could only dry retch.
I'm a bit suspicious of these studys of the brain on acid, because the setting they they take the tests in (again with a discussion of the setting!) all these doctors, electrodes on the head, and stuff like that will not make a tripper feel safe and comfy.
A more spiritual person, would tell you that the reason you're feeling so bad is that you've encountered a stumbling block that you must overcome. If something is reoccuring in subsequent trips and causing you discomfort, you must face it, and defeat it.
Whatever. 8)
[ 01 June 2002: Message edited by: Fetish Jester ]
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Melancholic, I'm no legend and been trippin for almost 6 years. I had an easter island (in sydney) and was really depressed with the results. It made me paranoid and gave me chronic acid gut. Before you pass a judgement on acid (this isnt a flame, or a remark to make you feel like dick, jsut what i think to be the truth 'as in sydney blotters') take a real real trip. The sydney blotters scene is FUCKED at the momment, and has been since MICROSOFT WINDOWS 1999 and JOKERS 2001. Those easter islands are not LSD and wait until you get a real trip, because 'real trips' are very enjoyable in publis spaces as i used to dump purple ohms, smilies, white background alians, supermans and beavis and buttheads before raves at town-hall steps and have a great night. CANDYFLIPPIN ROCKS!!!!!
 
Those easter islands are not LSD
Just to clarify, PKardNuSanz, do you mean that those easter islands are just very crappy trips, or there's something else in them that isn't Lysergic acid diethylamine?
If so, just check out the beginning of this thread, we've been doing a lot of talking exactly about things like that.
Basically we're saying that if you take a blotter and you feel something affecting you, it's almost 100% certain that it's LSD. If you know exactly what's in those blotters of easter islands, and it isn't LSD, we'd really like to know.
I'm skeptical that it's anything but LSD, but if you've got insider info or something, we're all ears.
Also, what do you mean when you say 'real trip'?
Thanks :)
[ 01 June 2002: Message edited by: Fetish Jester ]
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Unless you had a different Easter Island to the ones I had, and I know many others did...
You're talking out of your arse.
 
well i dunno mate, im no scientist or very experienced with lsd either, but the first time i ate an easter island it definately felt like lsd to me!!
it was the second time that i ate an easter island, that the trip was different, and while im 100% sure it was still lsd, the effects were different. and as i said before, i think this is because of my surroundings.
ta fetish jester. that could make sense :)
 
Here's an idea that I guess I could post here...
What are the effects of iso-lysergic acid? I just read about a synthesis that would be the most used on in backyard labs, cause it's quick and has a high yield of lysergic acid, and little "iso-lysergic acid" is made in the producion.
I'm assuming that these people wouldn't have their hands on any sophisicated separating equipment, so maybe iso-lysergic acid can be a culprit when you get acid that affects the body more physically? It's effects are described as "unpleasant." Whatever that means. 8)
Maybe this what people mean when they say clean acid? Lacking in iso-lysergic acid?
 
Well, while I don't think TiHKAL & PiHKAL should be treated as the be-all-end-all drug bibles, Shulgin didn't list iso-lysergic acid at all.
Also,
Hofmann, in his LSD, My Problem Child wrote: "In 1938, I produced the twenty fifth substance in a series of lysergic acid derivatives: lysergic acid diethylamide, abbreviated LSD-25 ... for laboratory usage."
Within a few years of the discovery of the extraordinary potency of LSD, a large number of close analogues were synthesized by Hofmann and his allies at Sandoz. Over the following decade many were tested in humans, both in patients and healthy subjects, with the qualitative descriptions and dosages published in the medical literature.
If iso-lysergic acid was as potent as LSD, surely Mr Shulgin or Hofmann would have documented it...
Damn it Fetish Jester, you've set me off on another chemical research spree...
;)
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Apollo, my summation is that iso-lysergic acid would have no psychotropic effects, and that the "unpleasant" effect are the cramps and nausea sometimes associated with some batches of LSD. The lysergic acid molecule is a pretty specific thing, and I've always doubted that any isomers would be worth examining.
Also, there is the chance when making LSD that the diethylamine group would attach in a different configuration... Maybe that's also something to look into?
 
Noted... I'm on the case.
I'd just like to add - big time kudos to Fetish Jester :)
This forum wouldn't be what it is without chemical boffins like you :D
 
Lysergic amides are in morning glory seeds (which have been added to the banned imports list in Australia). Preparing the seeds (sorry - no describing) can give a product which is active, but nothing like acid. Even doing this gives a shit hangover, which was far worse if you just eat the seeds.

My worst experience was eating raw seeds on bread. 2 of us bought 14pkts from a supermarket (at that time off the shelf stuff). I knew they were coated with strychnine and thought a bit of vigorous rubbing with a brush in water would get rid of it. NOT SO! We both thought we would die of fuckin strychnine poisoning! And being too scared to go to hospital, we stuck it out. Weird thing was, after the stomach cramps began to subside the visuals came on!

Highly discouraged – strychnine poisoning is amongst the worst pains you could ever experience. Those poor rats! And morning glory would never catch on as it’s not really enjoyable, at least I didn’t think so.



Don’t get confused anyone by thinking strychnine is in acid –its not, at least not on blotters anyway. But it is put on some seeds to kill pests, as flower seeds obviously weren’t intended for human consumption.
I haven't seen much acid for some time now, so I can't comment upon the currently available types. Although it is commonly stated nothing else can be on a blotter, I contend that several compounds are known of similar potency.
From Shulgin:

There has been many chemical modifications made of LSD. Most of these have dropped potency or even eliminated any activity at all, but some have led to compounds that are of equal or greater potency.
Sasha Shulgin
Shulgin does mention iso LSD
From Tihkal #26
There are two sensitive aspects of its structure [LSD]. The position of the carboxamide attachment, the 8-position, is affected by basic, or high pH, conditions. Through a process called epimerization, this position can scramble, producing isolysergic acid diethylamide, or iso-LSD. This product is biologically inactive, and represents a loss of a proportionate amount of active product. A second and separate point of instability is the double bond that lies between this 8-position and the aromatic ring. Water or alcohol can add to this site, especially in the presence of light (sunlight with its ultraviolet energy is notoriously bad) to form a product that has been called lumi-LSD, which is totally inactive in man.
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The first “acid” we ever saw was in fact DOM, on large very thick cardboard squares. The trip lasted all day, but wasn’t very hallucinogenic. That is unless you took several.
How did we know they were DOM? The same blotters appeared on the front page of the local newspaper, together with a qualitative lab analysis! The intent was to scare everyone by claiming DOM was much more dangerous than LSD. Also printed were pictures of real trips (containing LSD) Needless to say those were very popular ;)

In some ways it is surprising there is not more acid manufactured, since recent published syntheses are much simpler than the traditional Hoffman synthesis. I agree with Biscuit that the procedures would still be very difficult and require very pure reagents. The original synthesis requires difficult reaction conditions and specialized chromatography techniques, which seem to be avoided with newer approaches. Shulgins procedure in Tihkal seems much easier, starting from ergotamine. This wouldn’t (I imagine) be impossible to obtain, but the diethylamine would be another matter. I did once see it though, on a shelf in a lab storeroom. Most of the other chems of this synthesis could be obtained without suspicion through appropriate sources i.e. a company who had reason to use such chems. But as for the layman making LSD - it doesn’t happen.
 
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just reading thru ear;ier messages,what reaction does aluminium foil have with lsd? I ve always stored my acid in foil and found some in the back of a (T party lol)cd that was a couple of years old,and was also still very potent,
 
^^^
My thoughts re aluminimum fucking with LSD would be due to it causing a faster oxidation due to some interesting inorganic reaction, as I remember in the depths of my lectures in organic chem that Al (or its compounds) doing some pretty funky things to organic compounds.
 
Although it may not seem apparent from looking at the metal, aluminum is a very reactive element. Oxide forms a protective coating preventing further oxidation, and so it appears not to rust.
As Fetish Jester mentioned, it is thought that Aluminum may catalyze decomposition.
Stability study of LSD under various storage conditions.
Li Z, McNally AJ, Wang H, Salamone SJ.
Drug Monitoring Research and Development Department, Roche Diagnostics, Somerville, New Jersey 08876, USA.
A controlled study was undertaken to determine the stability of LSD in pooled urine samples. The concentrations of LSD in urine samples were followed over time at various temperatures, in different types of storage containers, at various exposures to different wavelengths of light, and at varying pH values. LSD concentrations were measured quantitatively by the Abuscreen RIA and by HPLC using a fluorescence detection method. Good correlation was observed between the immunoassay and the fluorescent integrity of the LSD molecule. Thermostability studies were conducted in the dark with various containers. These studies demonstrated no significant loss in LSD concentration at 25 degrees C for up to 4 weeks. After 4 weeks of incubation, a 30% loss in LSD concentration at 37 degrees C and up to a 40% at 45 degrees C were observed. Urine fortified with LSD and stored in amber glass or nontransparent polyethylene containers showed no change in concentration under any light conditions. Stability of LSD in transparent containers under light was dependent on the distance between the light source and the samples, the wavelength of light, exposure time, and the intensity of light. After prolonged exposure to heat in alkaline pH conditions, 10 to 15% of the parent LSD epimerized to iso-LSD. Under acidic conditions, less than 5% of the LSD was converted to iso-LSD. We also demonstrated that trace amounts of metal ions in buffer or urine could catalyze the decomposition of LSD and that this process can be avoided by the addition of EDTA. This study demonstrates the importance of proper storage conditions of LSD in urine in order to insure proper analytical testing results over time.
Pub_Med: J Anal Toxicol 1998
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It is not recommended that EDTA is used to store LSD as it has toxic properties. However, another chelated compound may do just as well. Protection by Vit C is also indicated (LSD is more stable in acid conditions) but light may not be quite as destructive as first thought.

Thanks to Lillienthal and biojammer
 
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"I've looked over them all, and ALD-52 is the only which could be mistaken for LSD. According to Shulgin however, the only way to get it is from LSD... Why would anyone want to do more illegal chemistry, when they've already produced exactly what the market wants?"

Well Orange Sunshine that was made in the early 70's was definately ALD-52 - Tim Scully the maker had other goals other than money (that was a nice fringe benefit)..he wanted to change the world.Why make ALD-52..a cleaner warmer trip.Some wise people i know believe the microdots circulating are ALD-52..which is the reason for the packaging..protecting ALD-52 from decomposition.The first microdots were made by Tim Sculley.. they were ALD-52.Not all acid labs are purely devoted to the production of money and there are people around today that share Tims vision. Many years ago i was given a shard of lavender crystal acid..which was shared amongst friends..acid like this was made for love... the maker gave an entire production run away..about the same time the first Gulf War took place..funny how the microdots appear when they do!Apollo you generalise too much. Not all chemists see only dollar signs. Some see a much bigger picture.

The true believers are still out there.

Peace

MD
 
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i agree microdotted and heres to acid making a come back now that there is roadside drug tests. Not that people driving round on acid is very comforting=D
 
i was just reading a post on maps and came across this:
Incidentally, ingesting LSD dissolved into (chlorine-free) water will smooth the introductory phase of the experience (regardless of Vitamin-C pre-treatment); LSD taken on paper tends, otherwise, to start very abruptly.
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also from erowid shulgin says
Its possible that poorly synthesized LSD might have other ergot derivatives in it, which might contribute to the harsh body load that some get on taking LSD. Also, the very close chemical relatives 1-Methyl-LSD and 1-Acetyl-LSD (which break down into LSD in aqueous solution) might be present in some street samples and might contribute to the harsh body load. (Petter Stafford has claimed in his _Psychedelics Encyclopedia_ that 1-Acetyl-LSD is supposedly "smoother" than d-LSD -- thus "strychnine laced acid" may acutally be pure d-LSD, while "pure lsd" may be 1-Acetyl-LSD or some substitute). And the chemicals iso-LSD and lumi-LSD which are breakdown products of LSD might contribute to the body loading on some trips, particularly via a hypothetical synergistic effect. Given this plethora of possible chemicals in street "LSD", its not needed to look to a chemical which has hardly ever been found in analyzed samples to explain variations in the strength and "cleanliness" of street acid.
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interesting none the less. maybe its worth trying a distilled water solution with blotters soaked in to allow the lsd to be released and compare results. anyone done this or can validate or discredit it?
 
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^^ Great, plausible answers to the age old question. I love Sasha's "pure LSD" definitions.


Now after that logically and scientifically based reasoning, this seems a little out of place here.

But anyway.....

LSD is, if general opinion is to be believed, a drug intricately connected to patterns.

I won't bother explaining why, but the "purists" don't believe in taking a square shaped trip. Triangles are fine, so cut it down the middle and gobble 2 halves if you need them.

Sounds absolutely ridiculous, but I *thought* it made all the difference. I just do it out of habit now and have never had a bad trip, but then again I haven't taken acid for some time :\
 
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