LSD- ever communicate with someone via thoughts alone!?

[Doldrugs]

Individual experience, especially while on drugs, is not proof of anything. There are very obvious, and much more likely explanations. My own experiences have nothing to do with that, and I didn't imply anything of the kind.

When someone comes in here asking if their delusion is real, I'm going to answer them. I'm sorry you have a problem with that, murphy, but in my opinion it's the right thing to do from a harm reduction standpoint.

 

[ABetterWay]

This isn't exactly what's being discussed, but fascinating nonetheless. And in the realm of what is being discussed. The following article isn't the most comprehensive one I've seen on this topic, and a Google search of "scientists record dreams" (or similar wording) will yield many results.

Though this is in a very rough/primitive stage, they will find ways of improving their abilities to "record" dreams:

http://www.businessinsider.com/scientists-replay-our-dreams-2013-4

And OP - I believe telepathy occurs. I've had many, many experiences that confirm for ME that this is a real thing. I know I won't convince anyone who is set on not believing it's possible, at the very least.

While I do believe, for SOME people it can be overwhelming and cause mental health disturbances.

The best and most simple advice I could give on matters like that is take it slowly, and educate yourself. In other words, don't poke around in things that are at a higher level than you're prepared/ready for. Like, you wouldn't learn how to write the alphabet, skip learning how to write words and how to string them together in sentences, and then try to jump straight into composing a 1000 page novel. You need to fill in the middle levels first, lest you become overwhelmed to the point of becoming disturbed because it's too much.

Peace.

 

[Doldrugs]

I'm not "set on not believing" anything. No one who genuinely understands science is. That's just a cheap thing people say when they argue against science.

The moment I see proof of telepathy I'll start believing in it. That's more open minded than believing something because you want to, in spite of the overwhelming lack of evidence.

 

[ABetterWay]

Doldrugs

I managed to delete a very good and comprehensive response to you....I don't have time or patience to re-write it atm, but I will eventually.

For now, I wasn't remotely targeting you, and your attitude and attempt to insult my intelligence are not appreciated.

I'm no anti-science dope.

Peace.

 

[Doldrugs]

There was no intended insult. It's a well established fact that telepathy is not supported by science. When you espouse a pseudoscientific belief, you are anti-science by any definition I can think of. If you find that insulting I don't know what to tell you.

And dont give me that "I wasn't targeting you" garbage. Of course you were referring to me, at least in part. Don't be ridiculous.

 

[ABetterWay]

Honey, I stopped reading the thread partway through.

There are always people who jump in saying these things are not possible. I said:

" And OP - I believe telepathy occurs. I've had many,many experiences that confirm for ME that this is a real thing. I know I won't convince anyone who is set on not believing it's possible, at the very least."

Note that I capitalized "ME". The insinuation was that it's something *I* personally believe in, and that *my* belief isn't going to be enough to change another mind who doesn't entertain it as a possibility. It was a broad statement having NOTHING to do with you. If anything, the fact that I bothered to note that what I believe yet can't prove isn't going to fly with others shows my open-mindedness.

Calling one thing I said "cheap" certainly seems insulting. My hypothesis is that you were deliberately insulting my intelligence.

Don't assume I'm anti-science. I love and appreciate science, despite its flaws.

I'll write a better reply later, explaining my views on science, on things like telepathy...then you can have a proper go at me.

For now, you're basing your words to me on your assumptions, which seems kinda anti-science, actually...

Peace.

 

[Doldrugs]

A belief in soundly debunked pseudoscience and an "appreciation" for science can only exist in a mind comfortable with cognitive dissonance, as the two are utterly incompatible.

People who believe in pseudoscience are always implying those who don't are close minded. It's manipulative and not at all accurate. It's a conversational tactic, and an obvious one. Science doesn't deal in tactics, it deals in independently repeatable results. And it has spoken very clearly and decisively on telepathy.

 

[murphythecat]

do you think that you convinced everyone who had telepathic experience that they are all delusional to have had those experience?

I think you re the same guy who also dont believe in ego death experience even though you can find thousands of reports?


everyone who had had those experience all know it to be true

you will find in about half of every DMT trip report people talking about telepathic communication with entities. well I guess they are all crazy? you can find thousands of testimony on this subject.


BTW, can you give reference for science that has PROVED that telepathic communication is impossible?

A belief in soundly debunked pseudoscience and an "appreciation" for science can only exist in a mind comfortable with cognitive dissonance, as the two are utterly incompatible.

People who believe in pseudoscience are always implying those who don't are close minded. It's manipulative and not at all accurate. It's a conversational tactic, and an obvious one. Science doesn't deal in tactics, it deals in independently repeatable results. And it has spoken very clearly and decisively on telepathy.

ajahn chah, a famous monk, did clearly demonstrated that he was able to read people mind.

 

[Doldrugs]

do you think that you convinced everyone who had telepathic experience that they are all delusional to have had those experience?

I don't care about convincing everyone, nor am I saying everyone with such an experience is delusional. I'm saying taking the experience outside of a drug induced state into your life is potentially unhealthy. Encouraging that behavior can have horrible effects on someone in the early stages of mental illness.

Plenty of people believe in telepathy who don't have mental illness. Those people don't understand or don't care to try to understand what science has demonstrated about it. Which, again, is that telepathy has absolutely zero evidence to support its existence.

I think you re the same guy who also dont believe in ego death experience even though you can find thousands of reports?

How can you "not believe" in ego death? That doesn't make any sense. It's an effect of taking certain types of drugs.

everyone who had had those experience all know it to be true

You can't "know anything to be true" without independently repeatable results. History is red with the blood spilled by those who believed otherwise.

you will find in about half of every DMT trip report people talking about telepathic communication with entities. well I guess they are all crazy? you can find thousands of testimony on this subject.

They were on a psychedelic drug. Of course they experienced crazy, weird, impossible things. One time I experienced the collective thoughts of an extinct ancient alien civilization whose consciousness was embedded in an architectural ruin on their planet, distant from earth. The experience lasted millenia. But then the drugs wore off. It was a profound experience, one that existed purely in my mind.

BTW, can you give reference for science that has PROVED that telepathic communication is impossible?

I never said anything of the kind. Of course it's possible, depending on your definition, I guess. Science is already making strides in this area.

ajahn chah, a famous monk, did clearly demonstrated that he was able to read people mind.

Independently. Repeatable. Results.
Independently. Repeatable. Results.
Independently. Repeatable. Results.

 

[ABetterWay]

Lmao! You're such a grump!!!

Ugh. I'll post later. Pretty annoyed that I deleted my excellent post. Honestly just don't *feel* like reposting it. But will get around to it...

Peace.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I'm saying taking the experience outside of a drug induced state into your life is potentially unhealthy. Encouraging that behavior can have horrible effects on someone in the early stages of mental illness.

I completely agree about that Doldrugs. I don't think anyone here has done that. We can't even agree if it is possible or not. Still, if something happens to a person it is natural to want to try and understand it better. It doesn't have to be dangerous, so I see your point and I don't. I imagine the thought of being so connected to another person you can share thoughts while tripping was a revelation. It would be to me. So what is the harm to looking around a bit and seeing if he's alone in this kinda thing. It appears he is not, even if there isn't scientific evidence to support it. He'll have to go by what he experienced, which apparently can't have any validity unless it has a scientific explanation.

 

[Doldrugs]

I don't think anyone here has done that.

Not sure where you're getting that impression:

but anyways yes I know it's for real because she was able to read/hear exactly what I was thinking

I wonder if we can utilize this technique sober since if you think about it the fact we have the ability to do it deep down we should be able to harness it sober just gotta know how....

You can do it sober.

Telepathy is real but dangerous as well.

I've had telepathy, or if that's what you would call it, and what you posted about happen to me both on high doses of LSD, and on 2.0g of mushrooms which gave me a ++++ experience. It happened to me both with sober people who were not on any drugs where I could understand their thoughts, and with another person who was tripping who I communicated my thoughts to and they knew exactly what I was thinking.

OP and many people in this thread believe this is real, despite there being plausible, scientifically supported explanations to the contrary. That is no bueno.

So what is the harm to looking around a bit and seeing if he's alone in this kinda thing.

There's no harm in asking about it. That's a good thing. The harm comes when irresponsible people reinforce delusional thinking in someone reading this thread who has latent or early mental illness. Have you ever experienced mental illness? It's not something to laugh about. Bluelight's mission is supposed to be about harm reduction.

He'll have to go by what he experienced, which apparently can't have any validity unless it has a scientific explanation.

It has validity as an internal experience, or in this case a pair of shared internal experiences. It doesn't have validity as a real phenomenon. Psychedelic experiences can be very meaningful and can have a real impact on your life. If you believe those experiences are objectively real, that impact can be very negative.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Have you ever experienced mental illness? It's not something to laugh about.

Actually, I know mental illness well. Severe depression, social anxiety, shyness. I still experience these things, but they've totally changed. I don't suffer anymore from these. I'm sensitive to how fragile the mind can be and participate in harm-reduction. So as someone who can claim they don't suffer from depression, social anxiety and shyness anymore (and when I do it resolves quickly), I also share my perspective with those who have gone through similar life struggles in similar circumstances and I don't treat them with kid gloves. Let's not forget he is an experienced psychonaut with 10 years experience tripping and is particularly sensitive to this sort of experience which I've learned from this and other posts. Stuff like this will happen again to him whether sober or not, though perhaps in more subtle ways. That's my experience. We cool though, you explained yourself well Doldrugs and I respect where you're coming from.

 

[murphythecat]

again, you dont answer the question about how science could effectively measure telepathic communication? please provied evidence that has shown the impossibility of telepathic communication?

the problem is not that telepathic communication is not real. the problem is that you dont see the limitation of science toward proving the telepathic reality.

science is limited. all Im saying. I respect science and see the value for many different aspects of our lives, but not for immaterial realities.

its not because science cannot read people mind that our mind cannot.

science is limited and always will be because life is a relative and personal experience. I find it so naive to wait for science to correlate personnal experience.

I don't care about convincing everyone, nor am I saying everyone with such an experience is delusional. I'm saying taking the experience outside of a drug induced state into your life is potentially unhealthy. Encouraging that behavior can have horrible effects on someone in the early stages of mental illness.

Plenty of people believe in telepathy who don't have mental illness. Those people don't understand or don't care to try to understand what science has demonstrated about it. Which, again, is that telepathy has absolutely zero evidence to support its existence.



How can you "not believe" in ego death? That doesn't make any sense. It's an effect of taking certain types of drugs.



You can't "know anything to be true" without independently repeatable results. History is red with the blood spilled by those who believed otherwise.



They were on a psychedelic drug. Of course they experienced crazy, weird, impossible things. One time I experienced the collective thoughts of an extinct ancient alien civilization whose consciousness was embedded in an architectural ruin on their planet, distant from earth. The experience lasted millenia. But then the drugs wore off. It was a profound experience, one that existed purely in my mind.



I never said anything of the kind. Of course it's possible, depending on your definition, I guess. Science is already making strides in this area.



Independently. Repeatable. Results.
Independently. Repeatable. Results.
Independently. Repeatable. Results.

 

[Doldrugs]

again, you dont answer the question about how science could effectively measure telepathic communication?

Tons of experiments have been done. Look them up yourself.

The concept is incredibly obvious: isolate people or otherwise prevent them from communicating in conventional ways. Ask them to send or receive information. Evaluate the accuracy of the received information. It's been done again and again. It has never been successfully duplicated. It is 100% unsupported by the only method of evaluating knowledge that has ever served humanity effectively.

science is limited.

Prove it.

 

[ABetterWay]

With Science?

I don't like when, for example, drug companies fully fund their own testing. Or when an agency accused of corruption does only an internal investigation with no independently verified confirmation of their results.

This is quite the problem!

I know....I really need to un-lazy myself and write my post out fully again.

But it feels so good not to right now.

Soon!

Then we can spend the rest of the day bonding as we argue.

You are grumpy, though. You know that, right?

Peace.

 

[Doldrugs]

I don't like when, for example, drug companies fully fund their own testing. Or when an agency accused of corruption does only an internal investigation with no independently verified confirmation of their results.

Science isn't the people doing it. It's the process. Removing bias is a core element of science. Which is why independently replicated results are so important. You're confusing politics and people with the scientific method. People are imperfect, obviously. Thanks for the fascinating revelation.

Reputable telepathy experiments have occurred over long periods of time and involved unrelated people with no mutual bias.

You are grumpy, though. You know that, right?

I'm glad you think the torment of mental illness is hilarious. I'm glad you think ad hominem and spam posts about how great this one post you never posted was gonna be are worthwhile endeavors.

 

[murphythecat]

if you find this experiment enough to contredict everyone who claim to have had telepathic communication, you are no scientist. there so many variable in that test, this is no science, its pseudo science.
you clearly do not understand in which circumstance telepathic communication can occur and in which state of mind most people need to be to fully be able to do telepathic communication.

but the fact that you think this experiment prove without a doubt that the THOUSANDS of people claiming to have had telepathic communication are wrong is very close minded. its dishonest and insulting for our intelligence especially since you imply that I'm not reasonable to believe in my experience.
I have had, more then once, telepathic communication.
I dont see why you try to tell me im delusional and almost foolish to believe in the veracity of my experience.

Tons of experiments have been done. Look them up yourself.

The concept is incredibly obvious: isolate people or otherwise prevent them from communicating in conventional ways. Ask them to send or receive information. Evaluate the accuracy of the received information. It's been done again and again. It has never been successfully duplicated. It is 100% unsupported by the only method of evaluating knowledge that has ever served humanity effectively.



Prove it.

nobody seem delusional in this thread, stop pretending that right now, you are worried for someone mental illness to believe in telepathic communication.

face it, telepathic communication is a reality that cannot be proven for OBVIOUS reasons.

I'm glad you think the torment of mental illness is hilarious. I'm glad you think ad hominem and spam posts about how great this one post you never posted was gonna be are worthwhile endeavors.

 

[Doldrugs]

face it, telepathic communication is a reality that cannot be proven for OBVIOUS reasons.

Lol yeah, because it isn't real.

I'm confused, though. I thought you said it WAS proven, because of a monk and "thousands" of people's subjective experiences? If something can't be proven, why believe in it?

close minded

Yawwwwn.

You'd believe in telepathy forever no matter what. Nothing will change your mind. I, on the other hand, would change my mind in a heartbeat, as soon as the evidence presented itself. So who's close minded, again?

 

[murphythecat]

the test you cited is flawwed for so many reasons.
I could make a list of 10 reasons why the test you cited cannot prove without a doubt that telepathic communication is impossible.

How would you improve it?