• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ

LSD and mental health

LSD may prove a valuable tool in understanding how the brain works, and then hopefully useful in finding better drugs for treatment, but on its own I don't see it being effective.

The problem with medical research is ethics. Gone are the days of human experimentation, particularly by the axis and Japanese military where trials can unearth rapid results. A lot of medicines for instance are not recommended to be taken by pregnant or breastfeeding women not because of any proven risks, but because ethically no one will perform double blind experiments on unborn children. The same can be said for mental illness. The kind of research needed to prove any real benefits come with the ethical dilemma of who is going to risk their own mental health for the benefits of mankind.
 
Please consider supporting the assertions above with peer reviewed studies. Also, please read all the literature and consider the whole picture before making sweeping claims.

According to two early studies, LSD was of no benefit to treat schizophrenia source 2 and LSD intensified it's symptoms. This evidence and an earlier post above gives peer reviewed evidence in early studies that suggest LSD is associated with paranoid psychotic reactions in people in the short term and schizophrenia like symptoms in rodents in the medium term.

It would be unethical to test these hypotheses in humans today. LSD may trigger schizophreniform mental illness in the mentally fragile, worsen it or play role in conditioning it. Although the quoted studies are early, it is generally accepted by psychiatrists that it is not recommended to treat a schizophrenic with LSD.

I don't hate LSD. After reading many journal articles on it, the early picture on the whole is somewhat sobering and concerning. It seems unlikely any benefits of LSD can't overcome its mental health risks as a medicine, from threshold doses up.

"2 early studies"? Well, we'd not have gotten to the moon. Unethical, I do not fully get, as these studies exist. These threads by definition aren't for posting the every detail of "peer reviewed" studies, but I think there's evidence it's been duly considered, well considered by the pros on the issue. The idea of "bad science" is well picked apart. They did excellent work in the 50's-60's, & didn't understand even the role of serotonin until LSD. Abstracts, & commentary are how to post here; not entire research archives. You clearly disagree with the well reported, well supported studies of 50's LSD (& Psilocybin for that matter) studies changing patterns of alcoholism. They like-wise in correct set & setting, these do help other mental illness yet of course not in any set & setting. It was good science by what can by any means show as having profound effects in changing mental behavior of chronic alcoholics of near 80%? Correct me.

Yes, there are new medicines, this is progress but LSD has been shown as low toxicity & other classic substances are being researched now with more excellent results being published as we post. Yes, treating schizophrenia is a minefield but too much hope is there, in modern research to put the ‘Nixon’ blinders on. Should I quote the results of science of chemo? The fact is again, not every medicine, is for everyone but psychedelics have been proven widely safe when proper precautions are observed: often safer than many other medicines, such as for PTSD for example as existing therapies, such as typical anti-depressants, like Paxil, too often end in suicide & are not even meant as cures. This hearkens back to the alcohol studies. Psychedelics are as dangerous as any mal-prescribed medicine with improper supervision. Like many medicines, things can go bad under the best intent, presentation & seeming proper usage.

I thank the Rick Doblin's among many modern age scientists for the breadth of understanding to get the difference between risk, & reward & how to manage these. Cancer treatments are not safe....but when at Hopkins, as they prepare people carefully for the experience of psychedelics, they can deal with life end issues, at life's end, with the patients at the end of life. They come out feeling alive & able to live the rest of their life's, with joy. The risk rates are small in these studies. Why?

I believe that had you been the FDA & DEA these research studies would still be locked up, which they're not, (although you claim you do not hate LSD, your position doesn't look this way at all when it comes to progressing with these types of approaches) or at best pre-determined as definitively not worth pursuing because they are inherently unsafe.
My concern is, that you don't list the journals you've derived your conclusions from, that show risk of harm is simply too great, & that these seem extremely tainted with fear & are not balanced about this topic. No-one who is worth their salt about psychedelic therapies say it's simply safe & there's no risk, but the risks can be managed, yet only if research happens. It is.
 
as someone who has had depression since my early teens, taking acid led me to a trip to the psychiatric ward for 2 months. i wouldn't un-take the acid if i had the chance, because i feel like it has catalysed some growth personally, even if the initial response was imbalance and losing ground. but that is just me, and i think i was lucky as well, i think i could have crashed and burned if i didn't have some foundational experiences with training my mind. i did feel like i was damaged/traumatised in some way, in terms of how i was treated by the western medical establishment (like a criminal).

i will not be taking moderate or high doses of lsd in the future, and i have mostly lost any interest in the potential positive benefit for me of microdosing lsd or mushrooms. this is because i don't want to play with fire in terms of risking the possibility of going through psychosis again, i also understand that LSD is the psychedelic to bring about psychosis in those sensitive to it, due to its mechanism of action.
 
depends on the drug.

LSD triggered a manic episode in me, mushrooms used to lift my depressive episodes almost magically years before that. also i broke my phobia of wasps on mushrooms. i dont like wasps now but i dont feel like vomiting if they come near me which is a huge improvement.

in think therapeutic use is dependent on the drug, dose, setting and the problem

i'd say mescaline is more likely to not fuck you up because it has the feeling that you remember you are on a drug at doses that are moderate. very easy to think on lsd or mushrooms that these new ideas are real and go off the deep end.


OP- clearly we need more research, a lot more
 
This is a good description for psychedelic psychotherapy.

It is a bit like melting down an impure metal egg, hoping some impurities burn off and maybe the new one that reforms is better than the last.

It sounds OK in theory, but the methods tried so far are unreliable. It seems many factors need to be right to get a better result. LSD may be the wrong material for a melting pot :)

No, IHD, these are horrible examples of metaphors on the forms of psychedelic psychotherapy & show little understanding of the process & methodology. "melting an impure metal egg hoping to burn off"...These both imply no method, just allow the broken pieces of a picture to assemble themselves via random gravity & friction without any help of the patent or therapist, on what puzzle you're working on. Way more is done, than just dropping the drugs from height. You assist the pieces gently, you prepare the subject with intent.

No, not everything is guided & planned, but neither is piecing together an actual puzzle. Things suddenly occur, by looking. Nor is purifying an alloy is done by hoping the elements you wish to burn off, is left to heat. There's use of chemistry & it's precepts & your observations. This is not close to a accurate description of the kind of intent that is required.
 
Here's another animal study with LSD:

Long-lasting alterations in behavior and brain neurochemistry following continuous low-level LSD administration

Abstract


Groups of rats were administered either 80 μg LSD-25 continuously over seven days using subcutaneous minipumps, or were given the same total amount of drug in seven daily injections, or were administered vehicle.

When tested long after cessation of drug administration, persisting alterations in behavior and brain were found in the continuous LSD groups. In social open-field tests, this consisted of decreased social distance between animals; this effect increased upon repeated testing. In uptake of labelled ligands, this was reflected predominantly by decreased 3H-LSD binding in several limbic regions.

LSD appears to have especially persisting neurotoxic effects when administered in a continuous, low-level fashion.

After reading enough studies like this, IMHO, it seems reasonable to have some reservations about LSD as a medicine.

Adverse consequences of lysergic acid diethylamide

Abstract


The continued endemic use of hallucinogenic drugs, and of LSD in particular, raises concern regarding their short and long term adverse consequences. ...

Evidence supports the association of LSD use with panic reactions, prolonged schizoaffective psychoses and post–hallucinogen perceptual disorder, the latter being present continually for as long as 5 years. Evidence does not support claims of genetic disorders arising from hallucinogens.

In light of the foregoing, current data confirm earlier findings of long lasting psychopathology arising in vulnerable individuals from the use of LSD. ...

Combining the two, it makes me wonder if it plays a role in conditioning schizophrenia like mental illness in regular users.
 
Last edited:
it's a bit like shaking a jig saw box, pouring it onto the ground and expecting a lot of the pieces to match.

This is a good description for psychedelic psychotherapy.


Really? Have y'all ever poured out a puzzle and had the puzzle magically reassemble? This is statistically nearly impossible. Repeat this trillions on occasions and the puzzle won't reassemble once. You suggested psychedelics scramble peoples brains and never result in results other than psychosis. Objectively this isn't right.


This is the truth. Psychedelics aren't associated with increased incidence of mental illness. Recent studies in humans are the most valuable and both of these are.
Psychedelics not linked to mental health problems or suicidal behavior: a population study.
Johansen PØ, et al. J Psychopharmacol. 2015.

Abstract

A recent large population study of 130,000 adults in the United States failed to find evidence for a link between psychedelic use (lysergic acid diethylamide, psilocybin or mescaline) and mental health problems. Using a new data set consisting of 135,095 randomly selected United States adults, including 19,299 psychedelic users, we examine the associations between psychedelic use and mental health. After adjusting for sociodemographics, other drug use and childhood depression, we found no significant associations between lifetime use of psychedelics and increased likelihood of past year serious psychological distress, mental health treatment, suicidal thoughts, suicidal plans and suicide attempt, depression and anxiety. We failed to find evidence that psychedelic use is an independent risk factor for mental health problems. Psychedelics are not known to harm the brain or other body organs or to cause addiction or compulsive use; serious adverse events involving psychedelics are extremely rare. Overall, it is difficult to see how prohibition of psychedelics can be justified as a public health measure.

© The Author(s) 2015.

PMID 25744618 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25744618/


Classic psychedelic use is associated with reduced psychological distress and suicidality in the United States adult population.
Hendricks PS, et al. J Psychopharmacol. 2015.


Mental health problems are endemic across the globe, and suicide, a strong corollary of poor mental health, is a leading cause of death. Classic psychedelic use may occasion lasting improvements in mental health, but the effects of classic psychedelic use on suicidality are unknown. We evaluated the relationships of classic psychedelic use with psychological distress and suicidality among over 190,000 USA adult respondents pooled from the last five available years of the National Survey on Drug Use and Health (2008-2012) while controlling for a range of covariates. Lifetime classic psychedelic use was associated with a significantly reduced odds of past month psychological distress (weighted odds ratio (OR)=0.81 (0.72-0.91)), past year suicidal thinking (weighted OR=0.86 (0.78-0.94)), past year suicidal planning (weighted OR=0.71 (0.54-0.94)), and past year suicide attempt (weighted OR=0.64 (0.46-0.89)), whereas lifetime illicit use of other drugs was largely associated with an increased likelihood of these outcomes. These findings indicate that classic psychedelics may hold promise in the prevention of suicide, supporting the view that classic psychedelics' most highly restricted legal status should be reconsidered to facilitate scientific study, and suggesting that more extensive clinical research with classic psychedelics is warranted.

© The Author(s) 2015.

PMID 25586402 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25586402/
 
Here's another animal study with LSD:



This is the equivalent of putting humans in empty cages then administering approximately 250 doses of LSD. Yes, I imagine this could result in psychological trauma with lasting effects. Solitary confinement results in lasting distress without drugs. Luckily modern research with psychedelic medicines involves much smaller doses, with professional guidance, in proper settings. The results are often positive.

Consider the consequences of giving humans 250 doses of whiskey, 250 doses of aspirin, or 250 doses of caffeine. They'd die. If anything this proves LSD is remarkably physically safe.
 
Last edited:
Really? Have y'all ever poured out a puzzle and had the puzzle magically reassemble? This is statistically nearly impossible. Repeat this trillions on occasions and the puzzle won't reassemble once. You suggested psychedelics scramble peoples brains and never result in results other than psychosis. Objectively this isn't right.


This is the truth. Psychedelics aren't associated with increased incidence of mental illness. Recent studies in humans are the most valuable and both of these are.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25744618/



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25586402/

In twenty odd years of being in the scene I have never witnessed anyone successfully be cured of a mental illness with LSD. Sure the odd friend has had an epiphany and made a life choice or two following a trip, but I have seen many more seriously ill individuals slip further into the abyss after prolonged LSD use.

I'm not doubting LSD unique properties, and I agree much could be discovered with further research into its effects on the mind, but save your pseudo scientific clap trap. LSD is too unpredictable to be seriously considered an effective pharmaceutical in mental health treatment.
 
^Psychedelics are effective medicines. Set, setting, and purity are each important variables. I apologize if you're group isn't using psychedelics responsibly and frequently experience difficult experiences. Your experiences differ significantly from modern research in humans using pure chemicals, administered by professionals, in responsible settings. With LSD, with Ayahuasca, with Psilocybin, with MDMA, those results are promising and positive.

Let's focus on recent research in humans. Let's keep some consistency here.

J Nerv Ment Dis. 2014 Jul; 202(7): 513–520.
Published online 2014 Jun 30. doi: 10.1097/NMD.0000000000000113

Safety and Efficacy of Lysergic Acid Diethylamide-Assisted Psychotherapy for Anxiety Associated With Life-threatening Diseases
Peter Gasser, MD,* Dominique Holstein, PhD,† Yvonne Michel, PhD,‡ Rick Doblin, PhD,§ Berra Yazar-Klosinski, PhD,§ Torsten Passie, MD, MA,∥ and Rudolf Brenneisen, PhD¶

Abstract

A double-blind, randomized, active placebo-controlled pilot study was conducted to examine safety and efficacy of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD)-assisted psychotherapy in 12 patients with anxiety associated with life-threatening diseases. Treatment included drug-free psychotherapy sessions supplemented by two LSD-assisted psychotherapy sessions 2 to 3 weeks apart. The participants received either 200 μg of LSD (n = 8) or 20 μg of LSD with an open-label crossover to 200 μg of LSD after the initial blinded treatment was unmasked (n = 4). At the 2-month follow-up, positive trends were found via the State-Trait Anxiety Inventory (STAI) in reductions in trait anxiety (p = 0.033) with an effect size of 1.1, and state anxiety was significantly reduced (p = 0.021) with an effect size of 1.2, with no acute or chronic adverse effects persisting beyond 1 day after treatment or treatment-related serious adverse events. STAI reductions were sustained for 12 months. These results indicate that when administered safely in a methodologically rigorous medically supervised psychotherapeutic setting, LSD can reduce anxiety, suggesting that larger controlled studies are warranted.

Free Full Text


Antidepressant Effects of a Single Dose of Ayahuasca in Patients With Recurrent Depression: A SPECT Study.
Sanches RF, et al. J Clin Psychopharmacol. 2016.

Abstract

Ayahuasca is an Amazonian botanical hallucinogenic brew which contains dimethyltryptamine, a 5-HT2A receptor agonist, and harmine, a monoamine-oxidase A inhibitor. Our group recently reported that ayahuasca administration was associated with fast-acting antidepressive effects in 6 depressive patients. The objective of the present work was to assess the antidepressive potentials of ayahuasca in a bigger sample and to investigate its effects on regional cerebral blood flow. In an open-label trial conducted in an inpatient psychiatric unit, 17 patients with recurrent depression received an oral dose of ayahuasca (2.2 mL/kg) and were evaluated with the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression, the Montgomery-Åsberg Depression Rating Scale, the Brief Psychiatric Rating Scale, the Young Mania Rating Scale, and the Clinician Administered Dissociative States Scale during acute ayahuasca effects and 1, 7, 14, and 21 days after drug intake. Blood perfusion was assessed eight hours after drug administration by means of single photon emission tomography. Ayahuasca administration was associated with increased psychoactivity (Clinician Administered Dissociative States Scale) and significant score decreases in depression-related scales (Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression, Montgomery-Åsberg Depression Rating Scale, Brief Psychiatric Rating Scale) from 80 minutes to day 21. Increased blood perfusion in the left nucleus accumbens, right insula and left subgenual area, brain regions implicated in the regulation of mood and emotions, were observed after ayahuasca intake. Ayahuasca was well tolerated. Vomiting was the only adverse effect recorded, being reported by 47% of the volunteers. Our results suggest that ayahuasca may have fast-acting and sustained antidepressive properties. These results should be replicated in randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trials.

PMID 26650973 [PubMed - in process]
Source


Curr Drug Abuse Rev. 2015; 7(3): 157–164.
PMCID: PMC4342293
NIHMSID: NIHMS648744

Psilocybin-occasioned Mystical Experiences in the Treatment of Tobacco Addiction
Albert Garcia-Romeu, PhD,1 Roland R. Griffiths, PhD,1,2 and Matthew W. Johnson, PhD1

Abstract

Psilocybin-occasioned mystical experiences have been linked to persisting effects in healthy volunteers including positive changes in behavior, attitudes, and values, and increases in the personality domain of openness. In an open-label pilot-study of psilocybin-facilitated smoking addiction treatment, 15 smokers received 2 or 3 doses of psilocybin in the context of cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) for smoking cessation. Twelve of 15 participants (80%) demonstrated biologically verified smoking abstinence at 6-month follow-up. Participants who were abstinent at 6 months (n=12) were compared to participants still smoking at 6 months (n=3) on measures of subjective effects of psilocybin. Abstainers scored significantly higher on a measure of psilocybin-occasioned mystical experience. No significant differences in general intensity of drug effects were found between groups, suggesting that mystical-type subjective effects, rather than overall intensity of drug effects, were responsible for smoking cessation. Nine of 15 participants (60%) met criteria for “complete” mystical experience. Smoking cessation outcomes were significantly correlated with measures of mystical experience on session days, as well as retrospective ratings of personal meaning and spiritual significance of psilocybin sessions. These results suggest a mediating role of mystical experience in psychedelic-facilitated addiction treatment.

Free Full Text


J Psychopharmacol. 2013 Jan; 27(1): 28–39.
doi: 10.1177/0269881112456611
PMCID: PMC3573678

Durability of improvement in post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms and absence of harmful effects or drug dependency after 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine-assisted psychotherapy: a prospective long-term follow-up study

Michael C Mithoefer,1,2 Mark T Wagner,3 Ann T Mithoefer,1,2 Lisa Jerome,4 Scott F Martin,5 Berra Yazar-Klosinski,6 Yvonne Michel,7 Timothy D Brewerton,1,8 and Rick Doblin9

Abstract

We report follow-up data evaluating the long-term outcomes for the first completed trial of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA)-assisted psychotherapy for chronic, treatment-resistant post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) (Mithoefer et al., 2011). All of the 19 subjects who received MDMA-assisted treatment in the original trial participated in the long-term follow-up (LTFU), with 16 out of 19 completing all of the long-term outcome measures, which were administered from 17 to 74 months after the original study’s final MDMA session (mean = 45.4; SD = 17.3). Our primary outcome measure used was the Clinician-Administered PTSD Scale (CAPS). Secondary outcome measures were the Impact of Events Scale-Revised (IES-R) and the Neuroticism Extroversion Oppenness Personality Inventory-Revised (NEO PI-R) Personality Inventory. We also collected a long-term follow-up questionnaire. Results for the 16 CAPS completers showed there were no statistical differences between mean CAPS score at LTFU (mean = 23.7; SD = 22.8) (tmatched = 0.1; df = 15, p = 0.91) and the mean CAPS score previously obtained at Study Exit (mean = 24.6, SD = 18.6). On average, subjects maintained statistically and clinically-significant gains in symptom relief, although two of these subjects did relapse. It was promising that we found the majority of these subjects with previously severe PTSD who were unresponsive to existing treatments had symptomatic relief provided by MDMA-assisted psychotherapy that persisted over time, with no subjects reporting harm from participation in the study.
Free Full Text


PTSDandMDMA.png
 
As is obvious, overcoming the stigma of the War on Drugs is challenging. The same is true with marijuana. The propaganda of the War on Drugs created lasting challenges. People continue claiming marijuana lacks medicinal potential despite the fact medical marijuana is respected legal medicine in multiple countries and dozens of states.

The same is true with psychedelic medicines here.
 
LSD has failed rigorous testing by the fda not because of political meddling and scare mongering but because it is not a safe and predictable treatment. I can attest for the effectiveness in creating a joyful after glow personally, but I am mentally healthy and emotionally stable.

Whole other kettle of fish who I choose to dose though. There are obvious personality types that I encounter every day that I would have second thoughts on prescribing LSD, even in warm and fuzzy recreational settings. It's plan irresponsible to suggest that LSD is a safe treatment for the mentally unstable.
 
Marijuana isn't an FDA approved medicine either. Marijuana is respected legal medicine in dozens of states.
 
At least for me, its important not to expect too much from a first time LSD experience. My first time I expected to see awesome visuals but I forgot about the physical and mental aspects of the drug. Make sure that if you are going to do it, you are in a relaxed and the right state of mind, whatever is relative to you otherwise expecting too much and being in the wrong state of mind can lead to a bad trip. If you feel that it could have a negative impact on your mental health, I would recommend not doing it until you are sure, because the last thing you want is long-lasting problems set off by a single bad trip.
 
In twenty odd years of being in the scene I have never witnessed anyone successfully be cured of a mental illness with LSD. Sure the odd friend has had an epiphany and made a life choice or two following a trip, but I have seen many more seriously ill individuals slip further into the abyss after prolonged LSD use.

I'm not doubting LSD unique properties, and I agree much could be discovered with further research into its effects on the mind, but save your pseudo scientific clap trap. LSD is too unpredictable to be seriously considered an effective pharmaceutical in mental health treatment.


I 100 percent agree, I have never seen anyone cured of mental illness and I saw a few people who got worse. For some people it's the worst thing they can do. I was reading some of those old 50's studies I got on a torrent and even with strict screening 1 in 200 people had a prolonged (over 3 days) bad reaction. No matter how well you set up the setting to make it LSD friendly some percent of the people will in a study react really badly to it. There are documented cases of people who were fine and took acid and weren't fine, you really need to have blinders on to not see the connection. Maybe they all were predisposed to mental illness, okay but would any of us know that we had that risk? You might be able to say you do have it with family history, but you can't say for sure you don't. I actually think everyone should wait until they are 35 before trying it. Even then people have late in life breakdowns too. Frank Olson who was dosed without his knowledge (which is obviously bad setting, but still) was 43 when he committed suicide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Olson
No one wants to talk about the Syd Barretts or the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roky_Erickson but to say some people did not have their mental illness made much worse, if not triggered by, LSD is dangerous. Too many acid casualties I have seen to discount the dangers. I love LSD but I wont give it to anyone else and don't encourage new people to try it. It's not for everyone and 21st century bad internet medical advice is making things like ayahusca/mushrooms/LSD seem like some alternative medicine when it totally isn't.
 
I just wana say that LSD has helped me to deal with PTSD symptoms related to a violent car accident I had years ago, as well as life-long depression symptoms. I'm not gonna say it cured me, but it sure as heck makes my general outlook on life and people a whole lot better for weeks, even months after as long as I don't back-track into booze or stims too much.

It's not for everyone. I'd say 20% of the people I've tripped with have freaked out or perceived themselves to have adverse after-effects. Sometimes I could tell ahead of time by their personality that maybe they shouldn't touch it, and sometimes I didn't see it coming. Everyone needs to examine their own mind when deciding on whether or not LSD could be a positive or negative influence in their life.
 
Top