LSD and mental health

[tritonenneptunus]

I was pondering on this and was wondering if anyone who has done LSD has experienced positive effects mental health wise?
I know that early on LSD was considered for being used as a therapeutic medication. Having never done LSD, and maybe I am possibly not understanding what LSD does, I have read stories of profound spiritual experiences and "working" problems out while tripping. I don't mean that everyone is going to be carrying around prescriptions of LSD everywhere by any means. I would really like to hear your thoughts on this!


http://www.medicaldaily.com/lsd-cou...lasting-beneficial-effects-using-psychedelics

 

[One Thousand Words]

Have you read any stories on psychotic breaks or schizophrenia?

Not all mental illnesses are the same, and while some people report positively to drugs such as LSD, it's a bit like shaking a jig saw box, pouring it onto the ground and expecting a lot of the pieces to match.

If you are medicated for any mental illness I'd personally advise stearing clear of strong psychedelics. There are very good reasons they never took off as a thereputic treatment after the 60's, and it's not only because the DEA frowned upon it.

 

[neurotic]

this question could be talked about forever, there really is no answer currently.

though, i think one could safely claim that bad trips cause psychological harm. you can see all around, without even looking for it, threads about people after bad trips feeling as if they lost their minds, thinking they will go insane, or develop a tendency to panic attacks, depersonalization/derealization, etc... all really common. there definitely is more than one of these types of threads open in this subforum right now: i just saw one named "world destroying MXE trip left me feeling semi insane 3 weeks later".

the research mentioned on the article, is, in my opinion, to be fair, crap. (it actually made me think less of Norway). it's just correlation... statistic sophistry. you can do this kind of stuff and claim anything you want.

that being said, i think that acid is absolutely amazing if handled right and definitely can have great positive impacts on one's life. but not so in a way that it could be used "as prescribed" or anything. :/

 

[tritonenneptunus]

Have you read any stories on psychotic breaks or schizophrenia?

Not all mental illnesses are the same, and while some people report positively to drugs such as LSD, it's a bit like shaking a jig saw box, pouring it onto the ground and expecting a lot of the pieces to match.

If you are medicated for any mental illness I'd personally advise stearing clear of strong psychedelics. There are very good reasons they never took off as a thereputic treatment after the 60's, and it's not only because the DEA frowned upon it.

I suffer from mental illness...so... I already know this.
That is why I was asking what people thought about it.
Not persay whether I was right or wrong about it and I clearly stated I had never done LSD in my life.
and I clearly said I don't think it would be good to be experimented with however,
Compared to all the medication I've taken *which I'm sure is at least 30x worse than LSD* and short of
Electro Convulsive Therapy, I think LSD is the lesser evil. I'm not going to take it or anything, that'd be stupid
I was just asking if it was POSSIBLE to use it therapeutically. Which obviously it's not.

But thank you for clarifying everything.

 

[tritonenneptunus]

this question could be talked about forever, there really is no answer currently.

though, i think one could safely claim that bad trips cause psychological harm. you can see all around, without even looking for it, threads about people after bad trips feeling as if they lost their minds, thinking they will go insane, or develop a tendency to panic attacks, depersonalization/derealization, etc... all really common. there definitely is more than one of these types of threads open in this subforum right now: i just saw one named "world destroying MXE trip left me feeling semi insane 3 weeks later".

the research mentioned on the article, is, in my opinion, to be fair, crap. (it actually made me think less of Norway). it's just correlation... statistic sophistry. you can do this kind of stuff and claim anything you want.

that being said, i think that acid is absolutely amazing if handled right and definitely can have great positive impacts on one's life. but not so in a way that it could be used "as prescribed" or anything. :/

Ah I got you. I'm not trying to claim anything per say. I was just wondering what other people thought... maybe I worded it wrong.

 

[neurotic]

hey, sorry if i was a bit too harsh.

what mental illness do you have, if i may ask? you mentioned ECT so i'd guess depression? (honestly upon seeing "mental health" i instantly thought schizophrenia and others) well, people with a history of depression (not currently in an episode) definitely can benefit from a psychedelic trip, if all is done right, so no need to scratch that off your list already. it is the ones with psychotic illnesses which would be better off staying away from psychs, and i think that is what One Thousand Words had in mind when he wrote his post.

 

[One Thousand Words]

I know people with severe depression who are now worse because of LSD though. It is simply not predictable or reliable.

Personally I gain great benefits from the occasional trip. I rarely go into one with a particular plan though, sometimes you gather insights and your life changes for the better, other times it's simply a random journey of shits n giggles. Guided therapeutic trips would be the holy grail I suppose, but higher doses can create far greater issues with no guarantee of a positive result.

 

[neurotic]

I know people with severe depression who are now worse because of LSD though. It is simply not predictable or reliable.

yeah, certainly, that's why i said earlier that it could have positive impacts in one's life, but not in a way that it could be used "as prescribed".

 

[Fiandra]

A rather larger study into this area, although its still obviously difficult to draw any causal links. Self reporting bias is always going to be a problem too, I guess.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0063972

Still, it shows no evidence that psychedelic use adversely affects peoples mental health. Personally, I've always found the occasional trip to be extremely beneficial. It really feels to me like a 'mental spring clean', allowing me to break free from any negative thought patterns or subconscious issues that may have been holding me back. Of course, everything is subjective though

 

[salmoneser]

I may think it is very important to have a goal when you go into a new journey with a medicine. Personally I have by myself wondering about what is the best for me as an epileptic - lifestyle, medicine, food and so on. In the beginning I was hunting for everything positive i heard and red, and tried do just the same as another epileptic did with medicines and lifestyle. But i often got dissapointed, because it didn't work out for me. After years it actually out of the blue, came to my mind that it is my brain and my life. And what other people says function, cant be compared to myself - i have to build the puzzle by my own, and collect it again.

What I mean with that is that it is so important to have a goal! - find out for yourself why you actually came to the point that use of LSD would help you, and set a personal goal with it. I dont know you, so I can't suggest ideas.

I felt in love with LSD years ago, but in the beginning I was so dissapointed with the effects and so on, and it didn't compare to what I have read and knew. Years after I talked a little bit with myself about it "WTF IS WRONG WITH ME?!" - I looked down on myself and could actually see, that alcohol abuse and fucked up daily dumb teenager rutines ruined me.

I did LSD again, and this time it "worked".

 

[nuttynutskin]

I suffer from depression and some other mental problems and I've had both positive and negative effects from taking acid. Most of the negative effects were from abusing it in high school. After that I took it a handful of times but always at a small dose and never had a bad experience. I don't do recreational drugs anymore but I would just say that unless you have some sort of psychotic illness taking a small dose probably won't be too harmful and could be beneficial. With higher doses there's obviously a higher risk of having a bad trip even if you're not predisposed to mental illness. Just start small and at the worst you'll probably just realize it's not for you.

 

[manboychef]

If you have severe anxiety disorders it is a lot easier to have a traumatic trip.

I have severe anxiety disorders. I have had three extremely traumatic trips. That being said; I believe that everyone should trip on a low dose of acid or mushrooms once a year.

 

[TheBlackPirate]

the research mentioned on the article, is, in my opinion, to be fair, crap.

I am fogy about why you attacked the research. The research was valid, peer reviewed, and published in the reputable journal PLOS ONE.

I should mention another group of researchers performed similar analysis and confirmed the results. This was also peer reviewed and published in another reputable medical journal.

J Psychopharmacol. 2015 Mar;29(3):280-8. doi: 10.1177/0269881114565653. Epub 2015 Jan 13.
Classic psychedelic use is associated with reduced psychological distress and suicidality in the United States adult population.
Hendricks PS1, Thorne CB2, Clark CB3, Coombs DW2, Johnson MW4.
Author information

1Department of Health Behavior, University of Alabama at Birmingham, Birmingham, AL, USA [email protected].
2Department of Health Behavior, University of Alabama at Birmingham, Birmingham, AL, USA.
3Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Neurobiology, University of Alabama at Birmingham, Birmingham, AL, USA.
4Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD, USA.

Abstract

Mental health problems are endemic across the globe, and suicide, a strong corollary of poor mental health, is a leading cause of death. Classic psychedelic use may occasion lasting improvements in mental health, but the effects of classic psychedelic use on suicidality are unknown. We evaluated the relationships of classic psychedelic use with psychological distress and suicidality among over 190,000 USA adult respondents pooled from the last five available years of the National Survey on Drug Use and Health (2008-2012) while controlling for a range of covariates. Lifetime classic psychedelic use was associated with a significantly reduced odds of past month psychological distress (weighted odds ratio (OR)=0.81 (0.72-0.91)), past year suicidal thinking (weighted OR=0.86 (0.78-0.94)), past year suicidal planning (weighted OR=0.71 (0.54-0.94)), and past year suicide attempt (weighted OR=0.64 (0.46-0.89)), whereas lifetime illicit use of other drugs was largely associated with an increased likelihood of these outcomes. These findings indicate that classic psychedelics may hold promise in the prevention of suicide, supporting the view that classic psychedelics' most highly restricted legal status should be reconsidered to facilitate scientific study, and suggesting that more extensive clinical research with classic psychedelics is warranted.

© The Author(s) 2015.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25586402/?i=4&from=psychedelics suicide

 

[Shamandrums]

I was pondering on this and was wondering if anyone who has done LSD has experienced positive effects mental health wise?
I know that early on LSD was considered for being used as a therapeutic medication. Having never done LSD, and maybe I am possibly not understanding what LSD does, I have read stories of profound spiritual experiences and "working" problems out while tripping. I don't mean that everyone is going to be carrying around prescriptions of LSD everywhere by any means. I would really like to hear your thoughts on this!
http://www.medicaldaily.com/lsd-cou...lasting-beneficial-effects-using-psychedelics

This FDA/DEA approved research now long fully underway by MAPS & others world-wide, is showing the psyches, in correct set & setting, are helpful in a range of mental health issues (life threatening disease related anxiety, depression, PTSD, Asperger's). They’ve found good models on how best to apply these meds & others. Knowing of course, not all meds even penicillin are right for everyone but they've found extremely few problems at Hopkins with proper screening, prep work before therapy & follow up on mass. The VA is now helping fund this research on veterans with PTSD, that how successful it has been.

Pharmaceutical grade medicine & dose IS KEY: MDMA has it seems an amazing ability to assist those with PTSD to the level of cure (via means using scientific screening for diagnosis, finding a reduction of PTSD to the level that he/she is no longer meets criteria of the "scale used" to require a diagnosis of PTSD. This after 3 sessions over 3 months, with 3 weeks supportive therapy between, after treatment & without further doses, it’s found 2-3-6 months to 3- years later no need for re-dosing to maintain cure level. (*recall the studies where (the FDA) used flawed data, as plain methamphetamine was used on pigs not 3,4-methylenedioxy-methamphetamine). LSD, PSILIBYN, AYAHUASCA, MARIJUANA all have excellent potential but this isn't street therapy. It's science.

I always felt LSD & these items had positive effects on me, others around me, & great potential, this during while research was firmly shutdown. Not to blow out the thread, but some links...

http://www.maps.org/news/media/5606-medical-daily-psychedelics-may-improve-mental-health-disorders,-but-we-ll-have-to-support-the-research-to-find-out
[url]http://howtousepsychedelics.org/practitioners/
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-04/new-science-lsd-therapy
http://www.maps.org/research-archive/html_bak/index81304.html[/URL]

 

[neurotic]

I am fogy about why you attacked the research. The research was valid, peer reviewed, and published in the reputable journal PLOS ONE.

'crap' may have been too strong, and now that i look at it again, may be i should have attacked the Medical Daily article, not the study. regardless, i did that because of the nature of the study: it looks for correlation. so, they found a negative correlation between psychedelic use and self-reported psychological distress and suicidality in the adult respondents of that survey. that's pretty specific. going from that to "psychedelics improve mental health" is a big strech, sensationalist. stretches of this type are very often also used as evidence of things such as marijuana causing schizophrenia (this study found a correlation between earlier onset of psychosis and marijuana use): these correlation studies are not convincing of anything relevant for me and only encourage this type of sensationalism.

that and also, i have the impression that you can always look at the data that you want, in the way that you want to conclude what appeals to you. suppose, for example, that one finds a correlation between psychiatric hospital admissions of people with no family history of mental illness and people with a psychedelic induced psychotic state (i think that this is very possible: the person is having one of those psychedelic freakouts, ambulance arrives, he's committed. i have seen it happen). is that a proof of psychedelics exacerbating mental illness?

 

[terarc]

To try and nutshell this issue: basically psychedelics cause a user to be immersed in their internal world (psyche). If a user has mental health problems, this can either help them look at and address the issues more objectively and move forward, or can throw them even deeper into their problems. They're a double edged sword, and while I think many users will experience psychological benefits from recreational use, I think trying to improve your mental health with psychedelics is something you should only do in a clinical setting with a trained therapist, especially if your mental health problems are anything more than mild.

 

[CZ-741]

LSD was used experimentally in psychotherapy in the 50s and 60s, but the results from early studies could be considered weak evidence by today's standards.

These class of drugs were once called psychotomimetics - 'psychosis mimicking'. More recent research suggests LSD may be somewhat suited to be called psychotomimetic.

Here is another source.

Also note that an atypical antipsychotic completely blocks LSD effects in rodents

Another concerning study showed regular LSD dosing lead to schizophrenia like behaviors in rodents over time that persisted months after stopping.

Please note that this isn't psychedelic bashing in general.

Psychedelics have been shown to have functional selectivity on certain receptors, and most don't effect dopamine receptors like LSD, so others may offer a marginally gentler experience, and may offer other therapeutic opportunities.

Like R-DOI being having antiasthma and antiinflammitory effects in rodents in microdoses.

IMHO LSD was considered cutting edge up to the 60's, but the world has moved on. Going on the evidence in the research literature so far, there may be other more promising compounds that deserve further study. There's a lot of gaps to be filled CZ

 

[CZ-741]

... it's a bit like shaking a jig saw box, pouring it onto the ground and expecting a lot of the pieces to match.

This is a good description for psychedelic psychotherapy.

It is a bit like melting down an impure metal egg, hoping some impurities burn off and maybe the new one that reforms is better than the last.

It sounds OK in theory, but the methods tried so far are unreliable. It seems many factors need to be right to get a better result. LSD may be the wrong material for a melting pot

 

[TheBlackPirate]

LSD was used experimentally in psychotherapy in the 50s and 60s, but the results from early studies could be considered weak evidence by today's standards.

These class of drugs were once called psychotomimetics - 'psychosis mimicking'. More recent research suggests LSD may be somewhat suited to be called psychotomimetic.

Here is another source.

Also note that an atypical anti-psychotic completely blocks LSD effects in rodents

Another concerning study showed regular LSD dosing lead to schizophrenia like behaviors in rodents over time that persisted months after stopping.

Please note that this isn't psychedelic bashing in general.

Psychedelics have been shown to have functional selectivity on certain receptors, and most don't effect dopamine receptors like LSD, so others may offer a marginally gentler experience, and may offer other therapeutic opportunities.

Like R-DOI being having antiasthma and antiinflammitory effects in rodents in microdoses.

IMHO LSD was considered cutting edge up to the 60's, but the world has moved on. Going on the evidence in the research literature so far, there may be other more promising compounds that deserve further study. There's a lot of gaps to be filled CZ

Ah, another anti-LSD thread by CZ-741. I quoted this, now deleting evidence of this once people prove you're wrong isn't possible to do.

First the studies in the 50s and 60s weren't bad studies. They were studies in the 50s and 60s. They utilized the most advanced methodology during the time. Every other scientific study utilized similar methodology then. The government propagandized the studies claiming they were invalid when they were simply old. The government prevented further research after those times.

Yes more research is necessary. Yes modern research is necessary too.

A promising result from LSD research was the drugs effectiveness in treating schizophrenia. Nothing since has demonstrated similar results. Multiple research studies occurred and those utilizing appropriate set and setting had good results. The most famous researcher is named Gary Fisher. For whatever reason this was the most heavily censored research in the United States. The governments aversion against this research was strong enough they literally forced the burning of most of the research records.

In schizophrenia the negative symptoms, or cognitive deficits, are considered the most harmful from the perspective of the people suffering from the illness. Modern anti-psychotics aren't effective in eliminating these deficits. LSD was effective. LSD was effective in reducing both positive and negative symptom sets.

https://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/fisher_gary/fisher_gary.shtml


LSD research also demonstrated effectiveness in treating alcoholism. This treatment was effective enough the co-founder of alcoholics anonymous, Bill Wilson, advocated the treatment. Nothing non-psychedelic has proven as effective in curing alcoholism since.

 

[CZ-741]

... First the studies in the 50s and 60s weren't bad studies. They were studies in the 50s and 60s. They utilized the most advanced methodology during the time. Every other scientific study utilized similar methodology then. The government propagandized the studies claiming they were invalid when they were simply old. The government prevented further research after those times. Yes more research is necessary. Yes modern research is necessary too. A promising result from LSD research was the drugs effectiveness in treating schizophrenia. Nothing since has demonstrated similar results. Multiple research studies occurred and those utilizing appropriate set and setting had good results. The most famous researcher is named Gary Fisher. For whatever reason this was the most heavily censored research in the United States. The governments aversion against this research was strong enough they literally forced the burning of most of the research records. In schizophrenia the negative symptoms, or cognitive deficits, are considered the most harmful from the perspective of the people suffering from the illness. Modern anti-psychotics aren't effective in eliminating these deficits. LSD was effective. LSD was effective in reducing both positive and negative symptoms sets. https://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/fisher_gary/fisher_gary.shtml LSD research also demonstrated effectiveness in treating alcoholism. This treatment was effective enough the co-founder of alcoholics anonymous, Bill Wilson, advocated the treatment. Nothing non-psychedelic has proven as effective in curing alcoholism since.

Please consider supporting the assertions above with peer reviewed studies. Also, please read all the literature and consider the whole picture before making sweeping claims.

According to two early studies, LSD was of no benefit to treat schizophrenia source 2 and LSD intensified it's symptoms. This evidence and an earlier post above gives peer reviewed evidence in early studies that suggest LSD is associated with paranoid psychotic reactions in people in the short term and schizophrenia like symptoms in rodents in the medium term.

It would be unethical to test these hypotheses in humans today. LSD may trigger schizophreniform mental illness in the mentally fragile, worsen it or play role in conditioning it. Although the quoted studies are early, it is generally accepted by psychiatrists that it is not recommended to treat a schizophrenic with LSD.

I don't hate LSD. After reading many journal articles on it, the early picture on the whole is somewhat sobering and concerning. It seems unlikely any benefits of LSD can't overcome its mental health risks as a medicine, from threshold doses up.