Loved Up vs. Fucked Up

[BigTrancer]

I was going to suggest a new thread for discussion about speed and mdma effects/neurotoxicity, because I think it's a really good point for discussion, and one that deserves to be talked about on its own merits.
The early 90's techno music discussion on the other hand seems to be drawing its own responses, so it might be best in Rave Culture and Meetups though, when it's not being directly related to the popularity of ecstacy use.
BigTrancer

(OK, I was too slow to grab those last responses, due to a lagging connection. I've started a thread called MDMA + Speed - Effects/Neurotoxicity? for information about the combination of speed (not speedy pills) and MDMA.)
[This message has been edited by BigTrancer (edited 08 August 2000).]

 

[Acid_Reign]

Sorry to turn this into a chat room....But

Darkblade : that scene you described was exactely what sensation was like, almost everyone was on a windmill. Everyone just kept hugging each other. We were hugging when someone came back from getting a bottle of water

Hmm, on the topic a bit more

. It was a scene where everyone was loved up, not fucked up. Alot of people there would have been having there first *e*, not their first pill, and my god was everyone loving it

I've never seen people rush so hard

That was the experience, i believe, everyone wanted. Thats what there money was supposed to get, not 20 bucks worth of speed in a $50 pill.

 

[BigTrancer]

I guess the energy and euphoria go together at raves, because the people there mostly carry with them a sense of anticipation of a good time. I know many people who will purposefully take 'speedy' pills in conjunction with mdma pills for the purpose of remaining dancey while being lovey too (ie. the speed+MDMA combination in the other thread). I think as has been mentioned above, this stems from the perception that pills, whether speedy or mdma, are 'safer' than taking a line or two of whatever. Perhaps it's just that people dislike the idea of snorting or mixing their chemicals in water (or at all) and that to pop a couple of bickies is simple, clean and easy.
Like Smurf said, people just want to have fun, but I can't shake my overriding impression that speedbombs are a bit of a mystery bag. Am I doing our local speedbombs an injustice by assuming that an MDMA pill would have less adulterants? I don't think so, because in my opinion if a chemist is making a 'real' MDMA pill, then they need not add anything else besides fillers, because they know it will be good, and will sell well. A chemist making a speedbomb on the other hand, may add a shake of this and a dab of that, just to give it a kick or a spin to make people wonder if it's more than just speed... which is why I advise caution on anything that tests other than purple/black.
BigTrancer

 

[Gnome Raver]

Great Topic!
On being Fucked UP: Well here is a different spin on things, weekend before last I got too carried away and over the weekend took 7 pills and smoked copious amounts of weed. Considering this went against a great deal of my promises to myself (I don't smoke dope so that was pretty stupid), I am taking a 4-6 week break as I got pretty damn well fucked up.
Part of the problem for me, and this is on topic, was I spent much too much of my time on the Friday night (hello to Miss CandE, E^lEctric, Big Trancer, Eds-Hed, Disco Super Fly, Elliven, Scott'E', you all saw me on the road to one screwed up weekend!!!) looking after friends who had taken god knows what (none where BLers!) and were feeling shit or going through something they didn't understand. And where basically fucked up. - personal note to myself to stop giving away all my 5-HTP to new friends and strangers, but you are all welcome to my Mylanta tablets!

I like looking after people but this got kinda out of hand and I forgot to enjoy myself!
I am also reminded of my first pill and the feelings it gave me. I took it at Pleazure in March, a white Mitsi. I felt fantastic, loved-up, couldn't keep still had to hug everyone and I danced all night and even the next day when I was too sore, I still had to dance.
Now some of you might think.. ahh he had some speed. I actually think not, all the feelings and rushes and the way I behaved all point me to good MDMA.
I have had speedie pills, and speed as powder. It has quite a different effect on me and makes me somewhat ill the next day. I really don't like the effects and avoid it now completly.
Recently I had a pill that planted me on my Ass hard (newer Turbo Mitsi's with the smaller logo). It felt good but was definately one of the other MDxx (damn need to do my homework again), I felt pretty fucked, enjoyed the time but prefer the cleaner feel of MDMA.
Last things I have had that were good were MDMA caps. These were really nice, very clean, not rushy just feeling great and loving it. Only thing was that the dose was too low, otherwise this is more what I like.
My favourite sensation would have to be the Orange cKs that went around a few months back. I still get goose bumps thinking about how funky I felt on them and how many awesome people I met and talked to, as well as the dancing (although not as much as on others).
What is my point to this mindless wank that I seem to have plonked here in front of you... not sure, except to say that I think dancing on MDMA is a personal thing and varies with the feelings, people, environment and music. Also that I choose to only take MDMA or its bretheren and choose not to take speed, dope, or shit pills that I buy off my friends at clubs because it seems like a good idea at the time.
Oh and one last thing on the speed + MDMA thing. When I have had it before hand it messed up my time on the MDMA, afterwards was often good as it kept me going but in hindsight this may not have been all that positive for my body or my mind. So I just roll with the night and let myself come down when it is over.
On the view of less informed individuals, here are some of the things I have heard my friends and others say:
"don't worry man, it's a pill so it's going to be safe" - (yeah right you little shit, like that makes sense!).
"That pill was fucked up as it made me cry for no reason" - hmmm maybe you have reasons but have buried them a bit too well.
"my guy/girl can get the real deal, you probably have never had anything as pure or as good as this" - hmmm what a shame they always test Orange... what gets me is he still thinks that each time he sorts out a new deal that it is going to be the "best MDMA pills you have ever had"... so far he has never had a deal work out.
"my dealer told me that ... he knows what he is talking about" - no comment is really needed on that one.
"you cannot get pure MDMA, it is impossible" - same guy that thinks he is always going to get the best pills in the world of the next guy.
Basically just do your own research, inform yourself, don't just take the word of others... even people here, we all make mistakes and we all get clouded in our judgement from time to time... and few (if any) of us are experts in any of this.
One last thing BT... I don't agree with your view on the purity of MDMA pills. I would say that the makers would want to change the mix ever so slightly of MDMA and other psychoactive ingrediants to give a pill just that little bit of an extra rush or different feel or increased visuals, etc. Like comparing the Orange cKs I was talking about and the MDMA caps... very very different in some ways and very much the same in others.
And a tribute to Disco Super Fly who I have to say is the only person I have ever met in my life that never seems to run out of Serotonin... I bow down to thee!
And to my other friend D... who no matter what pill he munches on, regardless of whether everyone else who has the same pill is stuck on there ass (the last Wet Musik) he will be off dancing like a Mother Fucker! You truely do inspire and scare the crap out of me my friend!

Take care.

 

[BigTrancer]

What GnomeRaver says with regards to the effect variations of the same pill from person to person probably has a lot to do with each person's own "set and setting" (to steal a common term). Most of us would probably realise that usually people will feel slightly different effects due to their previous state of health and mind, even on an identical dose (of anything). If someone has had a hard week, with little sleep and perhaps lower nutrition - compared to someone who has slept like a baby and preloaded etc., then obviously they will have vastly different nights. I know for sure I've been sat well on my arse by certain pills that have sent friends into an identical state of mind, but body loaded them far less. (I hope I'm using the term "body load" in the right context here). While I've had no urge or ability to dance due to a prior week of stress and interrupted sleep, they have been bouncing around all night.
At NRGetic a while back, I think I sat in one place for about 7 hours... it was the first time I've really appreciated the value of the chill out room. Friends on the other hand were planted firmly on the dancefloor with grins as enormous as my own, but no desire to sit whatsoever. Funnily enough afterward, our conversations revealed that each of us had an identical level of enjoyment - just different ways of achieving it. I also know people who've had just as much fun as myself but on speedy pills, so I guess it depends on what you're looking for at the time. Personally, looking back on the few occasions I have taken speedbombs (prior to becoming as rabid as I have about EZ testing), I recall disappointment at the lack of huge pupils when I would check in the mirrors, and an overriding sense of dissatisfaction. Sure, you can dance all night on a speedbomb, which is truly enjoyable and I have done it on many occasions sober and had fantastic times. However, if you're hoping for an MDMA pill and don't get one, it can really tarnish the night (for mine anyway).
I guess therein lies the difference, which we've previously discussed... perhaps it's not what you take, but what you know that changes things. Is there bliss in ignorance on this topic? Probably - but again I feel that this problem is exacerbated by the risks... purity or no, if a person does not know what they're taking, then the risk of overdose can be augmented. Let me run into a fictional (but quite feasible) example:
Suppose someone is out and they take their first pill of the night. They strike it lucky and get a pill with some amount of MDxx they weren't expecting, and feel less 'dancey' than their friends (either due to set/setting or different chemicals/doses). They might consider dropping another half, or full pill given to them by one of these friends in the hopes that they will dance it up and get their energy back. By doing so, they could risk combining any unknown chemicals (which may be contraindicated under certain circumstances... PMA+MDMA, DXM+MDMA etc, or which may not necessarily be dangerous together but cop an unexpectedly high dose) and suffer a corresponding elevation in body temperature, chemical shock or any other reaction due to the synergy. Folly, you might say, to take more than one pill, or to mix pills they haven't tried separately. But, I propose that this is not so uncommon... how many people do you know that take more than one pill in a night? Do they all test their pills?
I think in general the saving grace is that oftentimes the ingredients of the pills are at dosages low enough not to do major damage when treated with respect, but combinations of any drugs can result in unexpected effects. Their sum effect can be greater together than eithers effects when taken separately. This is especially pertinent when someone is attempting to dance all night, because a combination of amphetamines alone can elevate their body temperature enough to be worrying, which when combined with energetic dancing... well we all know that argument. Take care.
BigTrancer

 

[Voodoo Chile]

Gnome Raver - I know someone exectly like your friend D.
Mr fiance can go off on one pill, and dance all night. At Timo Maas, he had a bit more than normal (only 2 still) and (I'm not joking) danced from 11-6am with only a 15min break. He only stopped because I made him - he was looking totally fucked at this stage. He was on a really good MDMA pill - the pink ladies that were going around Sydney - but he had had a little bit of go. Still, I had taken the same amount as him, and was enjoying sitting on my arse chatting.
So basically, I agree that the whole dance thing is personal. I love to sit and have good D&M's, whereas he loves to get up and dance on exactly the same pills.
Sorry this is a bit confusing - I have had a bit of the good 'ole goey to get me through the work day and my mind is going a hundred miles an hour! (I dont do this often, but I had a late night last night!)
C-Ya
Voodoo

 

[Bent]

I hate to wade into the conversation this late in the game, but I thought I'd pass on my experience this past weekend.
Now, Bent has been going pretty hard a while now, so I decided I should have month or so of the pills. (Of course, I'm only human so I ended up having really expensive weekends on coke!)
Until last Saturday when I just couldn't take it anymore. So I wandered up to my local friendly DD near the dancefloor, and walked away with some MDMA powder caps.
And to cut to the chase - oh! my! god! I danced my arse off, as the waves of pure euphoria washed over my body.
Yes, I danced - because it wasn't the hard stuff/fast stuff that many BLers seem to love, but rather really good house music! (Which kind of corresponds to the theory of e as a dance drug - remember that it was first huge in the gay/lesbian scene & they've always loved house/garage (this Paradise Garage, Larry Levin, Frankie Knuckles, Tony Humphries, etc).
So, yeah definitely loved up! (BTW - loved your post Mr. Horse - you deserve to win the Melbourne Cup!)

 

[Biscuit]

So much has been so said so its hard to remember everything i wanted to comment on.
I agree with the quality aspect about MDMA. i think MDEA when it came on the scene was the main contributing factor of the heroin in e myth.
I think the quality of MDXX has probably gone down hill, so much more is being produced on a world scale that the chemists literally dont have the time/or the bother with huge batch sizes to be fastidious about purification etc.
Many pills are probably MDEA/MDA or a mixture, plus contain unreacted precursors etc. I think Perth people would agree that while the windmills are absolutely fantastic there is just something about them not quite right, way way to scattered afterwrds, often heavy etc, although that may be the strength.
Leading to my 2nd comment; People not used to MDMA that suddenly get a massive dose of MDMA are going to be fucked. Over the last month i have seen the inexperienced drop windmills whole and been useless, it becomes so overwhelming that they cant dance at all and really cant talk too well either, just sit there taking it all in. Thinking i am so "smacked" out. hmm
However people dropping halves would bounce of the walls for a few hours, EXTREMELY loved up.
It certainly is frustrating talking to my non-drug taking friends who criticise me despite the fact their knowledge ends with that of the media.
I remember with my first MDXX exp i made sure i had nothing else and when it hit i was on another world, i just didnt stop running around, hugging, jumping, never sitting.
Perhaps these sorts of people are so used to the effects of speed that when something else that AT FIRST feels very heavy and hard hitting they go FUCK and are no longer thinking positive and get concerned, disappointed etc, and we know what that will do to the exp. MDMA users on the other hand when they feel that belt in the face come on, that is the signal to throw the hands in the air and go totally ballistic, they dance through the initial bit and b4 u know it u r flying too, the happiest most euphoric person in the world, alongside all of the speed freaks with clenched fists, cold eyes, no smile and threatening faces.
(sorry this turned into a ramble i dont even know what my point is, although i think the people disliking MDXX can be educated and when they nail it properly, it may take a few goes (not goey) they will never look back!) AS long as they look fwd too, and realise MDMA isnt speed, and must be treated with far more care and self control.

 

[Adikkal]

BT: Thanx for the link you put in some other thread (can't remember which one off the top of my head, damn memory!)
I find it quite worrying that a vast majority of people that take e, and take it rather frequently don't even know what drug is meant to be in their magic little pill.
Recently when talking about the Omegas with this chick who's a bigtime pill muncher and even deals occasionally, she mentioned she was getting omegas and i said,
"Yeah, they're meant to be pretty strong and they're MDA not MDMA, most reports are having huge headfucks in the next morning"
and she's like
"Yeah, i'm gettin 3"
Fucken hell, some people, you just can't get through too. The internet has provided me with a WEALTH of information and i'm ever so grateful for it. I'm very new to actually consuming mdma but I know alot more about it than many other people i know who dump very often. It's a sad thing. I've been collecting info on what good pills are around at the moment, and descriptions of them and telling my friends and others. In the hope of trying to stop the flow of shit pills, or at least people buying them.
Small question on testing: I'm intriuged, do you people test before you buy or after? Because i would assume testing after would be kinda shit, unless you'd heard great things about the pill. Cos I'd be pissed if i bought a speedbomb and knew it. Do your dealers let you test b4 u buy?
On the topic of smacky etc:
My first real experience on E seems to fit into the category of what BT described as a low dose of mdma (orange chanel - if u care). I was dancy the whole time and loving it, i couldn't imagine feeling like sitting down. My sentiments are though, if you don't feel like dancing anymore, then don't. Just sit, chat and enjoy the rushes.
Kinda forgot what i was going to say. Damn thread is so long! Haha,
I have to congratulate you all, especially BT. All making great informative posts! Big thumbs up

Adikkal

 

[djremix]

Great post trancer!
just would like to add a little comment. to me it seems every pill is different.
no idea why, probably different mdxx amounts, different isomers in the reaction etc etc.
but generally though, an e pill always gives me a tingly feeling, a smile with no reason, and never get tired, along with love and openness.
now in ibiza i came across one particular pill who the dealer swore by it and wouldnt give me any discounts on quantity at all!
tried it.
and what can i say.
can you say BLOWN AWAY?
it sorta combined every little distinct thing ive felt on every other pill before.
meaning?
i had waves for 3 hours. headrush,speed chat,dancing my ass off, sitting there in awe. and they would all repeat all over again.
i only did this pill twice so far(have some left) and the next time(thinking i was in control of everything) i stupidly chipped my front tooth while talking at the speed of light. and (against all my reason and convictions) drank my ass off and passed out for an hour.
if i ever take this again, itll be in halfs.
now to put this into perspective, imagine me...who has had a shitload of different pill. house parties, raves, ibiza, sex on e. and one little pill blows me up like that?!!
and yes i do test all my pills.
ez test 1 : purple black / strange green line (2cb but i think its a binder)
ez test 2 : blue
ez test 3 : no reaction.
which indicated mdma/mdea but by loved up feelings its more likely mdma.
now my best guess is that its a mix of things(maybe even undetectible)
it felt like:
mda, speed, mdma all in time release formula. now what i mean? the waves that hit me?
anyways, back to original point, i was just trying to say that it really depends on the pill. everybody has a preference. and nopt everybody will enjoy mdma(yes everyone will but maybe not enjoy partying on it eh?)
p.s. was blue dolphin
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If you think life is really good, wait till you hear the REMIX!

 

[johnboy]

just transferring this across.