Opioids Living with pancrititus - Alcohol to Opioids, is it possible to control?

[JamesP69]

Hello.

Long story short I have had 2 acute pancreatitis attacks due to past drinking, I now do not drink and do not intent to even though the urge is high and not being able to is very depressing since I am in my 20s still.
I really cannot drink again because if I do I could end up with chronic pancreatitis which I am not willing to risk, I would end up on pain medication all my life and still be in severe pain.

Everyone wants to relax now and again, have the odd glass of wine after a hard weeks work but I cannot do this now for the rest of my life. It is also very depressing seeing all my friends social lubricate themselves and do social things around alcohol depending on the time of year. For example it's festival period now, people going Glastonbury, Tomorrowland etc etc. Then the Christmas festive period for example.. everyone out drinking having fun, even around the Christmas table people will be drinking baileys, champagne and having a good time.

I am very experienced with benzos and I find relief in them for my anxiety and my doctor knows all about this and I use them in emergencies but they just help my anxiety, I miss the euphoric music appreciation I get from alcohol. Benzos are not what I am looking for, they help me in times of need and I use them for that and not recreationally.

Now my question is do you think it is possible to use opioids in place of alcohol and really control yourself, I have tried Codeine and Tramadol many of times and really did not feel it was worth it, the maximum dosages I took were probably 180mg Codeine, 150mg Tramadol on separate occasions. Light buzz but nothing like the music appreciation, social lubrication and intoxication of alcohol.

I just want to have a giggly time now and again, unwind now and again, is it really THAT much easier to become addicted to opioids over alcohol? Is it really IMPOSSIBLE to control?

I have 10 x 10mg Oxycodone Hydrochloride capsules which have been in the cupboard for weeks now, they are there I could take or leave them but the urge to try them is there.. I want to unwind, listen to some music and have a relaxing night.
Maybe I have gone to the extremes from trying Codeine/Tramadol to having some Oxycodone IR, I wanted to try Hydrocodone as it's maybe more in between codeine and oxy in strength but was impossible to find.

I have been thinking for the past few hours of trying 5mg mixed in a drink and to just sip it.... start real low... just chill out and listen to some music, I don't want to get plastered.

I know the next option from alcohol would be weed without causing too much trouble but it gives me huge anxiety and is not sociable at all for me, maybe a little if I take it with some heavy benzos but I do not want to abuse benzos and passed out.

One of my favorite drugs to socialize is 4-FA after being told not to ever drink alcohol again, I love the stuff but I think amphetamines and this type of drug will be way more damaging to the body and possibly my pancreas compared to opioids, this is going more off topic though. I also cannot imagine taking 4-FA into my old age and those types of drugs... and it will inevitably be very hard to come hold of eventually anyway.

Once again my question is do you think it's at all possible to control opioid use, have I gone too extreme with getting my hands on Oxy (not yet tried it), should I go for a less intense opioid.

I have a feeling I already know the answers I am going to recieve, yes I will get addicted easily, and with my past alcohol abuse it's even more likely, maybe I should be asking this question instead:

- Has anyone else had experience with being able to control opioids themselves, just stick to recreational use?
- If I try Oxycodone will normal life never feel the same again, will normal life be a bore even from taking it a few times, maybe once a month?

I know totally sober life would be the best option, but come on im in my 20s and I cannot imagine being totally sober all my life until I die, I want to be intoxicated now and again... sorry for rambling this was suppose to be a short post.

I am looking forward to your replies and I hope this hasn't turned out to be a big wall of text (which im worried it has)

Thanks everyone,

J

 

[Nod Alot]

Controlled opiate use? There are individuals that CAN but I believe it's very rare. I've only known 1 person that was able to do it and he happened to be my dealer. I was blown away by this because he basically had a whole pharmacy in a suitcase lol.

But yeah man opiate addiction is definitely a road you don't want to wander down if you can avoid it. I'm sure you know that. Have you ever tried DXM? Moderate doses give you visuals kind of like when you've had a lot to drink, and it most definitely give you the "music appreciation" feeling.

 

[keeping]

initially i was able to control my opiate use, but eventually it catches up on you. i wouldn't suggest you try to replace alcohol with opiates although opiates on their own aren't very physically damaging. one can live a remarkably healthy life on prescription opiates, aside from being addicted that is.
and normal life never felt quite the same to me after i tried heroin, but to others the change wasn't as drastic.

if you are going to take the Oxy i recommend having a meal so your stomach is lines, fattier foods also increase euphoria for oxy i have heard. depending on how familiar you are with opiates i would take anywhere from 3 of those tablets to six. stay safe mate.

 

[JamesP69]

Controlled opiate use? There are individuals that CAN but I believe it's very rare. I've only known 1 person that was able to do it and he happened to be my dealer. I was blown away by this because he basically had a whole pharmacy in a suitcase lol.

But yeah man opiate addiction is definitely a road you don't want to wander down if you can avoid it. I'm sure you know that. Have you ever tried DXM? Moderate doses give you visuals kind of like when you've had a lot to drink, and it most definitely give you the "music appreciation" feeling.

I have not taken DXM but have tried Ketamine several times and it's not the social drug I am looking for, I wan't to be able to communicate and have great conversations, Ketamine always frustrates me as I am just unable to communicate with friends, is DXM different. It may be a good choice for unwinding home alone, I think I am more after a social drug though.

Thanks for your reply

 

[JamesP69]

initially i was able to control my opiate use, but eventually it catches up on you. i wouldn't suggest you try to replace alcohol with opiates although opiates on their own aren't very physically damaging. one can live a remarkably healthy life on prescription opiates, aside from being addicted that is.
and normal life never felt quite the same to me after i tried heroin, but to others the change wasn't as drastic.

if you are going to take the Oxy i recommend having a meal so your stomach is lines, fattier foods also increase euphoria for oxy i have heard. depending on how familiar you are with opiates i would take anywhere from 3 of those tablets to six. stay safe mate.

I decided to not take any again tonight and instead had a 2mg Xanax bar, I know I said I don't take benzos recreationaly which honestly I never do, I just had a strong urge to unwind, and I know I'll just end up feeling slugish, tired and without any music appreciation. If I ever did take the Oxycodone I do not think I would take 4-6 as you mentioned, I would play it safe and maybe try 5-10mg. I really think I know the answer though not to go down this route, it just seems like one of the only options and as you say opiods as I hear are very light on the body, just the addiction is very likely.

You say you was able to control your opioid use at first, where did you begin, have you tried Oxy? I live in the UK and it seems very rare to get hold of so I doubt I would even be able to get a fix all the time although I assume that would lead to Heroin abuse, I really do not think I would end up doing that. Poppy pod tea and Opium always seemed an option, but maybe I should look for something other than opiods after all.

Oh how I miss the social drink, I have even tried different modes of administration of alcohol once, I won't go into the details and it was a pretty much waste of time and defiantly not feasible to socialize, and I am not talking about IV alcohol or anything, but the mode I was using was to bypass the pancreas. Had a slight light headed feeling and it was defiantly not worth it and will never do it again.

Going off topic again... I would probobly use 4-FA more but the seratonin draining effects are just not worth it, compared to alcohol where you can recover rather quickly.

Thanks for the comment.


I guess there really isn't anything comparable to alcohol which won't effect my pancreas, benzos... no euphoria... GHB/GBL etc will probably effect my pancreas just as bad, I just see no other option than opioids, but I really really do see the dangers of becoming addicted. Would smoking small amounts of opium be less addictive possibly than Oxy, are there any other suggestions? I know at the end of the day any opioid will always end up with me trying a stronger one and a stronger one eventually, I guess?

 

[JamesP69]

I actually had a Xanax bar and decided to drink a bottle of non-alcoholic beer, it kind of makes you feel like your more involved, but no way is it like the euphoria from alcohol, the socialness and music appreciation, if only there was a benzo with some great euphoria and music appreciation.

 

[JamesP69]

The closest thing and most enjoyable since alcohol I have found is 4-FA followed by weed as the euphoria wears off, the euphoria comes straight back and the music appreciation is insanely good. This just ends up with me taking 4-FA, weed and a Xanax to sleep though and I really do not want to be doing that, although it really is amazing. I really keep going off topic here.

Anyone else had experience of being able to control opioids recreationaly, any advice? I just feel lost here.. as you can see with me feeling lost and going off topic constantly

 

[Scrofula]

Can't help you with opioids, but just how was your booze before the pancreatitis? Just a guy in his twenties? Nothing extra like super-high triglycerides?

I ask for a couple reasons, but one is I've had three bouts of pancreatitis. All blamed on alcohol. Now it's no secret that my blood used to be 40% by volume for a couple years. Thing is, that came after the pancreatitis. Yeah, I drank before too, but tended to sober up completely in between Fridays. It's definitely not a dose-response kind of thing.

A much bigger percentage of cases then Wikipedia shows this week are "idiopathic" which is doctor-speak for "fuck if we know." We didn't have obvious gallstones, hepatitis, high fat in the blood, but we were young dudes who admit we drink beer, so beer's the cause.

There's a definite correlation, don't get me wrong, and I'm not saying you should start drinking again. I just wanted to ask about your habit and vent my strong skepticism, also point out that another beer or all of them didn't give me so much as heartburn (might kill you though).

 

[keeping]

You say you was able to control your opioid use at first, where did you begin, have you tried Oxy? I live in the UK and it seems very rare to get hold of so I doubt I would even be able to get a fix all the time although I assume that would lead to Heroin abuse, I really do not think I would end up doing that. Poppy pod tea and Opium always seemed an option, but maybe I should look for something other than opiods after all.
[...]
I guess there really isn't anything comparable to alcohol which won't effect my pancreas, benzos... no euphoria... GHB/GBL etc will probably effect my pancreas just as bad, I just see no other option than opioids, but I really really do see the dangers of becoming addicted. Would smoking small amounts of opium be less addictive possibly than Oxy, are there any other suggestions? I know at the end of the day any opioid will always end up with me trying a stronger one and a stronger one eventually, I guess?

i started off right at the deep end - oxy and heroin. i kept it up 'chipping' for about a year and a half before i slipped into addiction. i'm in the UK too! south london, and yes oxynorm are quite hard to get a hold of, as is xanax. if i were to try to get either i would have to use DNMs and such. but regardless of what opiate you start with, you can catch a habit with all of them, and from there on in it only spirals further - i just skipped all that and dove right in to the deep end hahaha.

i don't think i can accurately quantify the 'safeness' of taking gbl or smoking opium over alcohol and the subsequent risk of addiction - especially as you've had dependency issues with alcohol. its so subjective and is pure speculation tbh mate. if you don't mind - i'm in my 20s also and to get pancreatitis at our age you must have really been drinking hard - could you briefly talk about it? if not dw i understand , its just i'm curious

oh and James mate, please don't double/triple post in future.

 

[JamesP69]

Can't help you with opioids, but just how was your booze before the pancreatitis? Just a guy in his twenties? Nothing extra like super-high triglycerides?

I ask for a couple reasons, but one is I've had three bouts of pancreatitis. All blamed on alcohol. Now it's no secret that my blood used to be 40% by volume for a couple years. Thing is, that came after the pancreatitis. Yeah, I drank before too, but tended to sober up completely in between Fridays. It's definitely not a dose-response kind of thing.

A much bigger percentage of cases then Wikipedia shows this week are "idiopathic" which is doctor-speak for "fuck if we know." We didn't have obvious gallstones, hepatitis, high fat in the blood, but we were young dudes who admit we drink beer, so beer's the cause.

There's a definite correlation, don't get me wrong, and I'm not saying you should start drinking again. I just wanted to ask about your habit and vent my strong skepticism, also point out that another beer or all of them didn't give me so much as heartburn (might kill you though).

Very good response thank you, and it's great to find someone in my same position with pancreatitis, my alcohol use was pretty bad I was trying to hide is slightly with this post as I didn't want it to turn into a 'you abused alcohol so much you will do the same with opioids' topic, but that was silly of me to try hide as it shows I obviously have a addictive personality due to social anxiety and such.

You are completely right too, I think most doctors don't really know the real reason and there isn't enough research that they just draw the line on NO alcohol. I went to a doctor who specializes in Gastroenterology just today and he said even a spoon of alcohol could cause another attack. But yes I totally agree with the 'fuck it if we know', but as you say there is defiantly a connection between alcohol and pancreatitis.

May I ask how your recreational drug taking and drinking is now you have been diagnosed, how is your pancreas, I had severe acute pancreatitis with a couple small pseodocysts which eventually went away, until my second attack last month which I am waiting for a new CT or MRI scan for to see the latest damage. I have very slight necrosis too it seems. So they say.

It's strange I had never heard of the condition until I got it myself and now when I ask people about it many seem to know someone who has suffered from it.

 

[JamesP69]

i started off right at the deep end - oxy and heroin. i kept it up 'chipping' for about a year and a half before i slipped into addiction. i'm in the UK too! south london, and yes oxynorm are quite hard to get a hold of, as is xanax. if i were to try to get either i would have to use DNMs and such. but regardless of what opiate you start with, you can catch a habit with all of them, and from there on in it only spirals further - i just skipped all that and dove right in to the deep end hahaha.

i don't think i can accurately quantify the 'safeness' of taking gbl or smoking opium over alcohol and the subsequent risk of addiction - especially as you've had dependency issues with alcohol. its so subjective and is pure speculation tbh mate. if you don't mind - i'm in my 20s also and to get pancreatitis at our age you must have really been drinking hard - could you briefly talk about it? if not dw i understand , its just i'm curious

oh and James mate, please don't double/triple post in future.

Xanax is surprisingly easy to get hold of on the dWEB, oxy not so much. Xanax is very very cheap too and you always get thrown in free ones on your order, Oxy not as easy and very expensive compared to Xanax. I'm suprised you delved straight into the hard ones.

You are completely right my alcohol use was pretty heavy and I was at my parents who are heavy alcohol users and they just feeded me as much as I wanted pretty much (I am not blaming them but it didn't help) but indeed you are right.

Sorry about the triple posts I see where your coming from, too many questions and it looks a mess

Thank you both for your replies...

 

[keeping]

yeah i was in a kinda bad place so i just delved right in to the baddies
those oxynorms are crazy expensive iirc
my parents are pretty hard drinkers too - luckily for me im a junkie instead of an alky hah

yeah double posts too man, try and keep it all to one post man

 

[JamesP69]

yeah i was in a kinda bad place so i just delved right in to the baddies
those oxynorms are crazy expensive iirc
my parents are pretty hard drinkers too - luckily for me im a junkie instead of an alky hah

yeah double posts too man, try and keep it all to one post man

Yes they are expensive, compared to alcohol but alcohol is so cheap and readily available.
Why do you say lucky for you that you are a junkie instead of an alcoholic? Due to it being less harmful on the body?

Sorry I'll keep it to single posts from now on, I am pretty new here, had an old account with some experience reports I may re-post.

It's strange opiod use seems less harsh on the body and withdrawals of alcohol are probably worse than opioids I was actually abusing benzos and alcohol at the same time and the withdrawal wasn't too nice, just the addiction potential and I guess heroin from the streets makes it more dangerous to OD?

As I was abusing alcohol and benzos I guess it shows I may struggle to keep the opiods under control from my past record. Maybe I'll just forget about the going out socializing with substances and just have weed for winding down after a hard week at home, seems like the safest option. Although it can really increase my anxiety, I will have to try and keep it under control, say once or twice a week.

 

[keeping]

ha i only say it ironically, obviously neither are very good for you.

yeah it is odd isn't it? alcohol wds are really dangerous on the body due to the seizure risk, same as benzo wd. did you go thru both?
the thing that makes street heroin dangerous is the cuts, all the shit they try to bulk it out with and uneven amounts of product.
if one was to be given legal heroin totally pure and in the same measured dosages there's no reason they couldn't be on that their whole life and live to be 100

yeah i mean, only you know the answer to that. opiates re fun at first, but they take a toll on you, and i'm not sure how that might affect your pancreas man
its all up to you bro

 

[JamesP69]

Yeah going through the WD's of alcohol wasn't too bad luckily but I was in Spain in hospital and prescribed Xanax which kind of got me into the Xanax but while on the alcohol I was taking quite a lot of Etizolam. I went kind of cold turkey and was going through some seriously weird psychosis and depression and crying randomly and such without even knowing why, luckily my doctor is really nice and supportive and has had me on a Diazepam taper for over a year or so, I am down to 1mg morning, 1mg at night with the odd Xanax when I need it. Pretty much off it all now. Thankfully.

I don't think the opioids will effect my pancreas too much but the research is pretty low I think, but I haven't even delved into opioids like I say yet and may probably not, just find it hard to get over this no alcohol ever for life scenario. Having to change my whole life style and find a new circle of friends who don't just want to get drunk in most social situations. It's hard when taking over a business and moving into my first ever own house for the first time, just feel I want to unwind at times!

Thanks for the chat

 

[keeping]

ahhh yeah etizolam, i was addicted to that and cold turkeyed it - felt like i was going insane
they probably won't but what will they effect? If you've got that type of personality you could end up ruining your life in otherways with opiates - like you just mentioned your new house and stuff - heroin addiction has made me homeless before.
its all down to how much self control you think you have mate

no worries man ive enjoyed it to

 

[Scrofula]

Should say, my ultrasounds and CTs have all been clear of pseudocysts. I still think doctors are giving you a line, but that's the major complication. I mean, they're pretty much little sacs of scar tissue and digestive enzymes. I always had the idea that if one popped it'd look like something from Aliens.

For disclosure, my first was in 2008, the big hospital stay (8 days) in 2009. (Third was more of an overnight flare-up in late 2009.) No issues since. I was drunk from probably 2010-2012 (punctuated by brief involuntary rehabs).

For substances, I've said all along that booze is the drug of availability, not choice for me. I had to move back home ca. 2013, drinking severely restricted, so I'd of course use every opportunity to get as blasted as I could.

Soon as I got a tiny bit of money I started smoking crystal meth instead. And everyone is more or less happy. In a few months weed should finally be legal (voted, approved, not implemented yet); and I'm hoping someone will have engineered a non-head-trip-psychosis-terror-dimension-gateway strain by then.

 

[burn out]

No, no opioids are harder to control than alcohol. Alcohol at least you can abuse a lot before getting a bad withdrawal. With opiates, you may control them for a while but sooner or later youll get a habit and the withdrawal is so bad youll do almost anything to get more. Opiates also dont give much music appreciation in my opinion. Maybe opium, but not heroin or oxy.

What you want is kava. Kava is a fantastic alcohol replacement. Not only is it much safer and easier on the body than alcohol, but a good kava high can be just as enjoyable as being drunk with tons of music appreciation and less impairment of judgement. The one real downside to kava as an alcohol replacement is that kava is much less of a "party drug" than alcohol. On kava you will likely be so chilled out, that you won't want to move around that much and loud fast talking people will likely annoy you. But kava is very social if you can get a few friends to sit around and drink kava with you or even if they drank a couple beers and you drank kava, it could still be fun. Kava is also more spiritual than alcohol. Its amazing substance. Make sure you get good quality root though and prepare it in the traditional way. Taking kava pills or extracts wont give the same effect. Not saying those are bad, but they dont give the recreational drunken buzz like having a few shells of root does imo.

I guess there really isn't anything comparable to alcohol which won't effect my pancreas, benzos... no euphoria... GHB/GBL etc will probably effect my pancreas just as bad, I just see no other option than opioids, but I really really do see the dangers of becoming addicted. Would smoking small amounts of opium be less addictive possibly than Oxy, are there any other suggestions? I know at the end of the day any opioid will always end up with me trying a stronger one and a stronger one eventually, I guess?

Why would GHB effect your pancreas just as bad as alcohol? I dont think GHB has much effect on the pancreas I could be wrong, but Ive never heard of GHB causing pancreatitus. You should research it and see. GHB is one of the best drugs ever. The only other suggestion I could give you besides kava and GHB would be phenibut. Personally I am not a big fan of phenibut. I tend to dislike drugs with super long half lives and phenibut is no exception. It gives me a super long come down with rebound anxiety and insomnia. But some people love phenibut so it might be wroth a try. It does have good anti anxiety and pro social effects.

smoking a small amount of opium is much safer than oxy but what about kratom? If youre gonna go the opioid route, kratom is the best, most pro social opioid in my opinion and so much safer than pharmies. Kratom gives you a burst of energy along with pain relief and anxiety relief. When i first started using kratom, I was talking to this girl on skype and before taking kratom Id feel like I had nothing to say. After taking kratom I'd be able to talk to her all night and she would actually stay up way past her bed time to keep talking to me.

 

[JamesP69]

ahhh yeah etizolam, i was addicted to that and cold turkeyed it - felt like i was going insane
they probably won't but what will they effect? If you've got that type of personality you could end up ruining your life in otherways with opiates - like you just mentioned your new house and stuff - heroin addiction has made me homeless before.
its all down to how much self control you think you have mate

no worries man ive enjoyed it to

Yes indeed when I quit my mix of alcohol/etizolam/xanax I was taking maybe 0.5mg - 1mg Etizolam & 0.5mg Xanax morning and night and sometimes a top up of Etizolam mid-day and while getting plastered on Vodka every night at my worst.
Just to note I was making my own solutions of for example 250mg Etizolam in 250-500mg of PG base liquid and syringed it in my mouth whenever needed (needless of course), made it very easy to dose and just pop as much as I wanted anytime as I kept a small bottle around with me.

I read so man threads on how Etizolam being so much more easier withdrawal wise than other benzos such as Xanax which is possibly partly true since I do find Xanax withdrawals come on quicker and harder even after only short term use but after years of use of Etizolam which ranged from a couple days a week to daily I am sure it was the Etizolam which caused the extreme confusion, crying randomly for no reason and depression, so people should not fool themselves. This was while not being able to drink and living with the fact I was not allowed to drink ever again though, but I am sure the Etizolam was causing most of the distress since I wasn't that bothered about not drinking at the time but was just happy about being alive from the pancreatitis.

Indeed your right I have just got my own house and do not want to lose that at all, and I am possibly changing careers very soon and going back into education so risking opioid addiction and the cost of maintaining it is really stupid now I think about it more and it's really is the wrong time of my life even if I do really seek some sort of substance to unwind. I'll choose something else. It does kind of worry me going back into education too though and all the students wanting to drink and such, but I need to man up... I just really do suffer from anxiety.

Anyway thanks again.

Should say, my ultrasounds and CTs have all been clear of pseudocysts. I still think doctors are giving you a line, but that's the major complication. I mean, they're pretty much little sacs of scar tissue and digestive enzymes. I always had the idea that if one popped it'd look like something from Aliens.

For disclosure, my first was in 2008, the big hospital stay (8 days) in 2009. (Third was more of an overnight flare-up in late 2009.) No issues since. I was drunk from probably 2010-2012 (punctuated by brief involuntary rehabs).

For substances, I've said all along that booze is the drug of availability, not choice for me. I had to move back home ca. 2013, drinking severely restricted, so I'd of course use every opportunity to get as blasted as I could.

Soon as I got a tiny bit of money I started smoking crystal meth instead. And everyone is more or less happy. In a few months weed should finally be legal (voted, approved, not implemented yet); and I'm hoping someone will have engineered a non-head-trip-psychosis-terror-dimension-gateway strain by then.

I would love to hear more about your pancreatitis experience and in fact anyone elses on this forum I think I will open a separate thread for that as I have gone off topic again.
What do you mean about the doctors giving me a 'line' and are you saying the cysts are a major complication?

Re-wind a bit my first episode was severe acute pancreatitis in a foreign country which didn't help as I felt so isolated but I was in intensive care for one week followed by 2 in a normal ward, the hardest thing was not being able to eat or drink for so long, when I was able to have my first sip of water I was over the moon, before that I was asking for mouthwash just to rotate my mouth for flavor to lessen the lack of sensory taste etc. I remember my first drink in hospital brought into me by my parents I requested apple juice it was like heaven, funny how we take things for granted eventually.

When you was drunk 2010-2012 was that heavy and every night? I am not asking so that I can try it out again since I am not going to just being nosey you don't need to tell me. Did you not get another flare up after those 2 years of drinking, was it heavy?

Where did you move to which caused your drinking to be severely restricted, I've often had the random thought come into my head of why not move to a country where alcohol is fround upon or even illegal but that is just passing random thoughts which would probably never happen. Then again why not, I hate our culture in the west especially UK, every social event seems to revolve around alcohol and every holiday. Not to mention every weekend, and now Wednesdays and student nights and now 'dirty Thursdays', it's ridiculous.

While going through my depression about not being able to drink EVER again I tried meth once which is actually never really seen in the UK (hated it although probably didn't do it quite right, didn't feel that high although I was only doing tiny bumps but was up for 3 days talking and extremely alert) it was like I was high without knowing it, the following depression was dreadful, never again. I ordered an Oxy 80 and flushed it due to the stupidly high dose, started weed again which caused my Anxiety to get worse (I use to smoke weed daily/nightly for ages as a school kid but quit) and 4-FA which really is just amazing but I found myself taking it too much so stopped. The trouble is with 4-FA/MDMA etc it's too taxing on the serotonin and recovery takes too long I found myself becoming depressed from that too.

There really seems to be no real alternative to alcohol, it's such a shame. My own fault of course though.

'In a few months weed should finally be legal (voted, approved, not implemented yet); and I'm hoping someone will have engineered a non-head-trip-psychosis-terror-dimension-gateway strain by then.
This comment you made sounds great, I really hope a strain which won't cause my major anxiety and become sociable and energetic would be engineered too, that sounds amazing but I think this is wishful thinking for the things I want out of a drug.


Scrofula - If you don't mind me asking, what are your drugs of choice to socialize, unwind at home and whatever else now that you have had pancreatitis attacks several times now, I really am interested.

Thank you so much for your reply.

 

[JamesP69]

No, no opioids are harder to control than alcohol. Alcohol at least you can abuse a lot before getting a bad withdrawal. With opiates, you may control them for a while but sooner or later youll get a habit and the withdrawal is so bad youll do almost anything to get more. Opiates also dont give much music appreciation in my opinion. Maybe opium, but not heroin or oxy.

What you want is kava. Kava is a fantastic alcohol replacement. Not only is it much safer and easier on the body than alcohol, but a good kava high can be just as enjoyable as being drunk with tons of music appreciation and less impairment of judgement. The one real downside to kava as an alcohol replacement is that kava is much less of a "party drug" than alcohol. On kava you will likely be so chilled out, that you won't want to move around that much and loud fast talking people will likely annoy you. But kava is very social if you can get a few friends to sit around and drink kava with you or even if they drank a couple beers and you drank kava, it could still be fun. Kava is also more spiritual than alcohol. Its amazing substance. Make sure you get good quality root though and prepare it in the traditional way. Taking kava pills or extracts wont give the same effect. Not saying those are bad, but they dont give the recreational drunken buzz like having a few shells of root does imo.



Why would GHB effect your pancreas just as bad as alcohol? I dont think GHB has much effect on the pancreas I could be wrong, but Ive never heard of GHB causing pancreatitus. You should research it and see. GHB is one of the best drugs ever. The only other suggestion I could give you besides kava and GHB would be phenibut. Personally I am not a big fan of phenibut. I tend to dislike drugs with super long half lives and phenibut is no exception. It gives me a super long come down with rebound anxiety and insomnia. But some people love phenibut so it might be wroth a try. It does have good anti anxiety and pro social effects.

smoking a small amount of opium is much safer than oxy but what about kratom? If youre gonna go the opioid route, kratom is the best, most pro social opioid in my opinion and so much safer than pharmies. Kratom gives you a burst of energy along with pain relief and anxiety relief. When i first started using kratom, I was talking to this girl on skype and before taking kratom Id feel like I had nothing to say. After taking kratom I'd be able to talk to her all night and she would actually stay up way past her bed time to keep talking to me.

I think your right about the music appreciation I think thats what I am looking for the most and opioids are probably not the way to go, and with my habit forming and low self control it seems the worst option.

I have indeed tried Kava Kava, decent stuff as far as I am aware, it was purchased from 'Paradise Kava' or something along those lines? a big bag of the stuff shipped from America or somewhere, it definatly gave me somewhat of a high but no where near as enjoyable as Alcohol and it just numbed my mouth and throat somewhat and gave me a slight buzz? I am not sure really. I also was somewhat skeptical of the research on how it could be bad for my organs, yes I know people swear by the research carried out being totally wrong but I am not sure whether to risk it. That aside though could you hint on some good Kava Kava brands? I am in the UK though. I have also tried the extract supplements and indeed they did nothing and it's funny I was actually holding a bottle of the tablets last night while pondering trying Oxy and replacing it with the Kava pills instead but decided against both.

With the Kava Kava I used I prepared it right as far as I know, muslin bag and shaked and rinsed it several times with water and down the hatch, defiantly had effects but no real euphoria or music appreciation. Don't get me wrong though this is definatly one of the better suggestions! I may try some different brands instead and try again!!!

Regarding your GHB comment I am not sure, I was basing my research on GBL rather than GHB really, I have read a couple of threads else where claiming someone took GBL often and ended up with pancreatitis and I thought this could be quite possible? I do not have any scientific knowledge it just seemed like GBL and Ethanol could be quite similar in damaging organs? I am no scientist I do not know for sure. GHB is just kind of dried out GBL right not as caustic and corrosive as GHB, GBL caused me to eventually have several teeth fillings and it would burn away at any plastic it dripped on as you may know about these effects. Does GHB have a much lighter load o the body, I know GBL converts into GHB in the body and I guess this strains the organs somewhat, does GHB not strain the body in this way at all. If anyone knows, I'll do some research though.

I've heard about phenibut a few times and heard the withdrawals are terrible and very habit forming and tolerance builds up extremely fast, I will look into this too though I have never tried this one but have seen it mentioned alot.

I would like to try smoking opium but I think I am going down the wrong route here I'll probably just get some weed and have it with a Xanax on the odd occasion if I want that kind of high.

I have tried Kratom once from a head shop so the source was probably terrible so I could look into this also.

Thank you so much for your suggestions




Sorry about the double reply, I had already posted the other post when this next one popped up and I couldn't see how to edit and quote the third post, thanks!