Liver Flush....is it crap?

[Coolio]

Anyway, the light flush consists of drinking a few spoonfuls (up to a third of a cup) of cold pressed olive oil mixed with orange juice and some lemon, fresh ginger and a bit of garlic and some cayenne pepper.... all mixed/blended . . . nice n easy and the nausea is way less than with the hardcore flush. It will get the liver working too.

Wouldn't it be a lot easier and a lot more pleasant to just cook some thai curry and use a lot of olive oil in it instead of coconut oil?

Even better, just regularly incorporate olive oil and spices into your diet, like most of the world does?

 

[Coolio]

A regimen called a "gallbladder flush" or "liver flush" is a popular remedy in alternative medicine. In this treatment, often self-administered, the patient drinks four glasses of apple cider and eats five apples per day for five days, then fasts briefly, takes magnesium, and then drinks large quantities of lemon or grapefruit juice mixed with olive oil or other oil before bed; the next morning, they painlessly pass a number of green and brown pebbles purported to be stones flushed from the biliary system. A New Zealand hospital analyzed stones from a typical gallbladder flush and found them to be composed of fatty acids similar to those in olive oil, with no detectable cholesterol or bile salts [9]. The hospital letter to patients concluded The gallbladder flush may not be entirely worthless, however; there is one case report in which treatment with olive oil and lemon juice resulted in the passage of numerous gallstones, as demonstrated by ultrasound examination.

...

 

[Ximot]

/\ yeah as I said before what one passes may just be saponified olive oil... try mixing olive oil and lemon jîuce and put it out in the sun, see what happens...

Regarding your other question, Coolio: no, I don't think so. Because first of all olive oil is best used uncooked. Also one ought to do this on an empty stomach, best first thing in the morning... that's when no fat has been metabolised for many hours and so the gallbladder is really full and really squirts itself empty when so much (quality) fat is introduced all at once. I guess all the other stuff (garlic, lemon, cayenne, etc.) are just there to stimulate the cleansing process, as it's the olive oil that supposedly does most of the work.

From http://www.unhinderedliving.com/liverflush.html :

Many diseases begin because the liver, whose job it is to filter out toxins, becomes overburdened by the overwhelming amount of pesticides, food additives, yeast, and other unhealthy substances we put into it that must be eliminated. Doing a liver cleanse once every three months can be helpful in keeping this problem under control.

Version One of The Liver Flush

The first one is a bit more structured and comes from Polarity Therapy, the great body of work Dr. Randolph Stone, D.O., N.D., D.C., O.M. developed in the earlier part of the 20th century. First thing in the morning: 2 Tbsp. cold pressed extra virgin olive oil or almond oil, juice of one fresh squeezed organic lemon, fresh squeezed juice of 1-2 organic oranges (optional), 1-4 cloves of fresh organic garlic. (If garlic is too strong, take garlic at lunch time in a salad.) Blend all of the above together and drink. Immediately after ingesting the oil, garlic, and juice blend, drink 2 cups of hot herbal tea, or hot water if tea is not available. Suggested herbal tea: boil ½ finger of fresh organic ginger root sliced into 6-7 pieces with a Tbsp. each of fenugreek, fennel, and flax seed for 3 minutes at a slow boil, and pour this herbal broth into a teapot with 1 Tbsp. comfrey and 1 Tbsp. peppermint leaf.
All of the above is The Liver Flush which should be done for 10-14 days in a row. Drink all the herbal tea you want in the morning – NO sweeteners for at least two hours after the flush. Midmorning: If hungry, drink fresh vegetable or fruit juice or eat a grapefruit. Lunch: Fruit or vegetable salad and/or steamed or baked vegetable. Sprouts are good. Midafternoon: Fruit or sprout snack. A few raw almonds or walnuts. Dinner: Same as lunch. After dinner: Only liquids – no solid food. A mucus-free all vegan diet during the 14 days of The Liver Flush is advised – no meat, eggs, dairy, coffee, alcohol, sugars, refined flours, white rice, and starches like potatoes and corn.

Version Two of the Liver Flush

Is less involved: First thing in the morning: 6 Tbsp. lemon juice, 3 Tbsp. olive oil, 1 small crushed clove garlic, pinch of grated ginger and cayenne, whisk in blender and drink immediately. Do NOT eat for at least 1 hour. Do this for 10 days and repeat a few days each month thereafter.



Though it's true that using adequate amounts of the right spices is good, like most of the world does indeed... let your food be your medicine and your medicine be your food. But this won't specifically target the liver.

Another thing that is good to cleanse the liver is the coffee enema:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q="coffee+enema"+liver&meta=¨

lots of fun but don't do too often

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

/\ The epsom salt / oil ones following the instructions of Dr Hulda Clark?
Do you fast before you do them or not?
What kind of flush exactly do you do?

I just randomly came across this thread again, sorry I never got around to responding. I do some variation of the Hulda Clark cleanse. I learned pretty early on that you don't have to follow her instructions as strictly as she makes it seem.

Yes I usually do a juice fast of some sort for a day or two before.

It's soooo funny reading back on this thread to when I was young and in denial. Liver flush is something I fully believe in now, it helped my body and mind so much in so many ways. I'm so glad I took a chance on it, and I hope others do too. I've convinced my mom and she is going to try one now.

 

[wizekrak]

There's no physiological explanation for how clearing the liver of gaul stones could alter alergic reactions. The immune system functions largely independantly of the liver.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

Nothing in the body is fully independent of anything else. If cleansing the liver makes a person feel better that effects their energy and mood, which effects everything else. Stress is the worst, and a messed up liver definitely = bad feelings. After my first flush I experienced a massive shift in mood and energy.

 

[Pander Bear]

I have done several detoxes over the years and have met people who have done the flush you describe above. I have met at least one guy who definitely got loads of stones out, in all sorts of brown to red to green colours.

I did it myself, twice, and I did get something like greenish stones out. All brave, I took heart and examined those and found them to be sort slippery squishy, like jelly-cake or something . . . there was also lots of white crystally chaff.

I had a chat with a totally holistic guy some point after that who said that what I thought might have been stones may just have been "saponified olive oil" - if you mix olive oil with lemon juice or I think any citrus juice and leave it out in the sun for a bit, it will turn solid and slippery... like soap, it will "saponify". He suggested that perhaps they weren't gallstones I was passing.

I'm unsure about it but the second time I did it was the last for a while - I felt pretty rough afterwards for a few days. It is hard work for the liver.

What you can do, if you like a lighter version of the liver flush - and a full fast/detox IS recommended prior to undertaking this hardcore gallbladder flush, apparently. I think the site mentioned above says so, too.

Anyway, the light flush consists of drinking a few spoonfuls (up to a third of a cup) of cold pressed olive oil mixed with orange juice and some lemon, fresh ginger and a bit of garlic and some cayenne pepper.... all mixed/blended . . . nice n easy and the nausea is way less than with the hardcore flush. It will get the liver working too.

wikipedia on cold pressed olive il cleanse:

A New Zealand hospital analyzed stones from a typical gallbladder flush and found them to be composed of fatty acids similar to those in olive oil, with no detectable cholesterol or bile salts,[13] demonstrating that they are little more than hardened olive oil. Despite the gallbladder flush, the patient still required surgical removal of multiple true gallstones.

Alternative healing = medicine without any studes, discipline, or scholarly work. 8(

 

[wizekrak]

Here's how the liver and gall bladder work,

The Liver makes bile salts and other enzymes. Fat in the Duodenum (the part of the small intestine closest to the stomach) triggers release of bile salts. When the liver makes bile salts it concentrates them in the gall bladder for release. These bile salts immulsify fats (and oils) they take the hydrophobic fats and complex around them to produce a hydrophilic micelle which can then cross the intestinal lining and be shuttled around for breakdown.

Basically all you are doing with olive oil is triggering a massive release of bile salts to coat the oil you take in. You're basically shitting grease as has been stated above. The human body is self cleaning, and voiding the gall bladder doesn't remove toxins from the liver. You want toxins in the liver as that's where they are broken down. You can't really shunt things from the liver (aside from digestive enzymes) into the digestive tract.

I'll give alternative medicine a fair shake if it can be supported with peer reviewed clinical findings in a high impact journal. Unfortunately people buy in to it without a solid understanding of the physiology at work underneath.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

Haha.

If you are going to quote wikipedia, at least post the FULL quote, not just the parts which agree with your viewpoints. You left out the rest of that section:

The note concluded: "The gallbladder flush may not be entirely worthless, however; there is one case report in which treatment with olive oil and lemon juice resulted in the passage of numerous gallstones, as demonstrated by ultrasound examination."[14]

It's funny that you automatically believe something just because you read it on wikipedia, yet when I say that the liver flush changed my life it means nothing. The "study" is the real life people who do these flushes and reap the benefits from them. There are literally hundreds of testimonials about this on curezone. Open your mind to something outside of the mainstream.

Or don't, if you don't want to. It matters not to me and my happy liver.

Unfortunately people buy in to it without a solid understanding of the physiology at work underneath.

People "buy into it" because it works. Plain and simple. Like I said, go read all the testimonials. This procedure changes peoples lives. I really don't give a shit how or why it works, or if it works for some other reason than what's commonly thought, the fact is it HELPS PEOPLE. Why try and shoot it down when it's helping many people? I'll never understand that.

 

[wizekrak]

Haha.

If you are going to quote wikipedia, at least post the FULL quote, not just the parts which agree with your viewpoints. You left out the rest of that section:



It's funny that you automatically believe something just because you read it on wikipedia, yet when I say that the liver flush changed my life it means nothing. The "study" is the real life people who do these flushes and reap the benefits from them. There are literally hundreds of testimonials about this on curezone. Open your mind to something outside of the mainstream.

Or don't, if you don't want to. It matters not to me and my happy liver.



People "buy into it" because it works. Plain and simple. Like I said, go read all the testimonials. This procedure changes peoples lives. I really don't give a shit how or why it works, or if it works for some other reason than what's commonly thought, the fact is it HELPS PEOPLE. Why try and shoot it down when it's helping many people? I'll never understand that.

There's always the placebo effect. Just cause someone says it works doesn't necessarily mean it works, it's like selling snake oil. That's why controlled clinical studies are so important in proving efficacy of treatment. Alternative medicine is a business like any other. Often times testimonials are made up or paid for (some M.D.s have even been found to give falls testimonials). Anyone can write a testimonial, it's easy to fake, and there's profit to be had.

The risk with alternative medicine is that without clinical trials or studies the major risks are largely undocumented. Someone may buy into something and do damage to themselves without knowing what they're getting into. When something has been clinically tested you can read the results and the side effects and the proven documented efficacy of the process. People are largely unaware of the potential risks associated with untested alternative medicine.

When the risks are unknown and the benefits unproven it is very hard if not impossible to advise alternative medicine while still adhering to the first principle of medicine which is to do no harm.

But if it makes you happy then it makes you happy.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

Just curious, what risks would there be? It's just drinking some juice and oil. You don't even need to take the doses of epsom salts if you don't want to.

Now I totally agree with you that there is profit to be had in some areas of alternative medicine, such as selling herbal cleanses and what not, of course. But there is no one selling the liver flush. Who exactly would be profiting from writing fake testimonials about this? The grapefruit farmers? The olive oil industry? Whoever makes epsom salts and sells them for 2 bucks a box? lol I think you see my point. The flush instructions are free on the net and the ingredients are available at any supermarket for less than 15 bucks. It's not a multimillion dollar industry.

Also, for the people who claim the stones that come out are nothing but the ingredients injested in the flush process, what is your explanation for the fact that most of us who have flushed multiple times no longer get stones? I hope as a long term poster on bluelight I'd have earned enough of a reputation to not be thought of as a liar, and I know you don't know me but have faith in what I say because I'm telling the truth and would have no reason to lie.

My first few flushes I passed literally hundreds and hundreds of stones. Like, so much came out of me that it would have equaled BOTTLES of olive oil, not 1/2 cup. On my 5th flush, I passed a HUGE, milky white calcified ROCK, and my liver area felt sore afterwards. I could feel where it came out! After that, my digestion and mood improved so much it was unbelievable. Also after that, every flush I did, my stones began tapering off until I started having flushes with no stones at all.

Now I only have a few stones, or none, depending on how my diet and lifestyle has been. And I'm injesting the same amount of Olive oil every time. If it was just the oil coming out, wouldn't everyone get basically the same amount of stones coming out every time? The logic doesn't make sense to me, and thats why I think these testimonials are important. Olive oil doens't turn into a huge (bigger than square inch and rock hard) white stone in a few hours inside my body. Most of the reports that say the stones are olive oil don't say anything about rock hard white stones and many people have passed them.

I totally understand how you feel because I felt the same way. I was very skeptical before just saying what the heck and trying it.. and then.. wow.

 

[wizekrak]

Just curious, what risks would there be? It's just drinking some juice and oil. You don't even need to take the doses of epsom salts if you don't want to.

Now I totally agree with you that there is profit to be had in some areas of alternative medicine, such as selling herbal cleanses and what not, of course. But there is no one selling the liver flush. Who exactly would be profiting from writing fake testimonials about this? The grapefruit farmers? The olive oil industry? Whoever makes epsom salts and sells them for 2 bucks a box? lol I think you see my point. The flush instructions are free on the net and the ingredients are available at any supermarket for less than 15 bucks. It's not a multimillion dollar industry.

Also, for the people who claim the stones that come out are nothing but the ingredients injested in the flush process, what is your explanation for the fact that most of us who have flushed multiple times no longer get stones? I hope as a long term poster on bluelight I'd have earned enough of a reputation to not be thought of as a liar, and I know you don't know me but have faith in what I say because I'm telling the truth and would have no reason to lie.

My first few flushes I passed literally hundreds and hundreds of stones. Like, so much came out of me that it would have equaled BOTTLES of olive oil, not 1/2 cup. On my 5th flush, I passed a HUGE, milky white calcified ROCK, and my liver area felt sore afterwards. I could feel where it came out! After that, my digestion and mood improved so much it was unbelievable. Also after that, every flush I did, my stones began tapering off until I started having flushes with no stones at all.

Now I only have a few stones, or none, depending on how my diet and lifestyle has been. And I'm injesting the same amount of Olive oil every time. If it was just the oil coming out, wouldn't everyone get basically the same amount of stones coming out every time? The logic doesn't make sense to me, and thats why I think these testimonials are important. Olive oil doens't turn into a huge (bigger than square inch and rock hard) white stone in a few hours inside my body. Most of the reports that say the stones are olive oil don't say anything about rock hard white stones and many people have passed them.

I totally understand how you feel because I felt the same way. I was very skeptical before just saying what the heck and trying it.. and then.. wow.

If there is a blockage or occlusion (restriction) of the bile duct then triggering a bile release can cause pain, inflammation, or possible damage. I believe firmly that people should discuss any and all forms of treatment with their physician before starting them.

As for profit: Someone may run a site, we'll call him person X. He posts treatment Y with testimonials. People see them and rush to site Y. Site Y gets more traffic and person X makes more money. That's not always the case, and if the instructions are free then no one is profiting. But usually alternative medicines are administered by someone who claims to be a professional, they make money on the service.

The fact that you no longer get stones is exactly why clinical testing with follow up should be done. They can check gall bladder function, enzyme levels, etc... Without doing the study they don't know why something works or how it works, or if it even works.

The bile duct is less than 1cm in diameter. There is no way you can pass a stone 1 square inch in size without doing damage to the gall bladder and while being in horrendous pain as it pases. This is why it's so important to understand anatomy and physiology when trying to understand medicine. Once you understand how the human body works it's much easier to pick out the bogus from the substantial.

I guess my big issue is with people jumping into any form of medicine without looking at it critically.

If you were able to pass large stones what you most likely did was cut down on the chronic inflammation of the gall bladder. The inflammatory response can cause moodiness and irritability as well as lethargy (tiredness). So after romoving the stones this is most likely why you felt better. Plus you may not have been getting enough bile into the duodenum to digest fat if the gall stones were blocking the bile duct. I'm really glad it works for you.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

I believe firmly that people should discuss any and all forms of treatment with their physician before starting them.

Some of us don't have physicians. I haven't had any sort of doctor for years, not since they all basically raped me for my money and then offered NOTHING to help my chronic health problems. Alternative health saved my life. I'll never trust doctors again, especially here in America. My experience with them has been nothing but horribly negative. And I do mean HORRIBLY.

The bile duct is less than 1cm in diameter.

This is the purpose of the epsoms salts in the cleanse, they are supposed to relax these ducts so the stuff comes out. It did hurt when I passed that stone, and like I said I was sore inside afterwards, but it quickly went away and I'm good now.

 

[wizekrak]

A good primary care physician is worth their weight in gold. Most walk in clinic doctors are abysmal (there's a reason they work clinic instead of having their own practice).

I'm Canadian so I guess I have a bit of a skewed perspective when it comes to medicine.

 

[Pander Bear]

Why try and shoot it down when it's helping many people? I'll never understand that.

Because its only helping people in as much as midnight televangelism and abdominal workout machines help the suckers who buy into it. Real dietary advice and healthy lifestyles don't come in books for 25 bucks.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

I'm telling you it helped me but I guess if you don't want to believe me there's nothing I can do.

 

[Pander Bear]

And I'm telling you that you aren't a fit judge of what is a "help" to your body's health-- because you aren't a doctor, and you have no background in anatomy and physiology. If it "helps" you like the power of prayer does, then you're just enjoying the benefits of the placebo effect.

Walking around telling others that your body has been cleansed of all toxins, and that you're pure now-- while other people are perennially sick and dirty-- sounds exactly the same to me as a fundamentalist Christian talking about how great it feels to be saved, holy, and have a personal relationship with Jesus. Both are basically about feeling smarter and better than everybody else. Enjoy being afaid of microwave ovens because of something you read on a geocities page. 8(

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

Actually, I'm pretty sure I'm aware of my body more than anyone else, and therefore the best judge of what helps me. I'm the one living in here. And I never called anyone else sick or dirty..nor am I afraid of microwave ovens. lol

 

[ODB]

I agree about the doctors in the states. I stopped going to mine after he prescribed me to anti-depressants for my anxiety. I was fired from my job for being on drugs because my doctor told me to take one a day instead of telling me to start with 1/4 pill and slowly work up to a full pill. I was all spaced out and could not focus so I had to leave work Monday after I had started them on Friday. then I was 'let go'.

Doctors in the US seem to be legal drug pushers because they prescribe (push) drugs not medicines or remedies. But that is just my opinion.

 

[Dtergent]

Actually, I'm pretty sure I'm aware of my body more than anyone else, and therefore the best judge of what helps me. I'm the one living in here.

I agree with this. If you know how to listen to your body, your insights about how it works will be very valuable to your decision-making process.

About the liver flush, my friend's grandfather was telling us just last month about how they utilized this method to flush out gallstones to avoid operations during the war. Apparently, it involved a lot of walking around... Once you take the concoction you could not sit down until the morning. The American doctors thought it was stupid, but they eventually began using it in the makeshift wartime hospital of the area because it was effective.

(Long)

Not that science isn't valuable, but sometimes the adherence to what a few experts call science borders on dogma. (Or, science is so narrowly defined!) Definitely if people knew how to read their reactions to food, etc. more effectively, their aggregated observations would be add much valuable to all the studies that are coming out.

The US has a food industry based on "science". Studies show this-and-that is the new wonder food, lowers blabla, is harmful for your health. So-and-so is the allowable amount, X is safe in minimal, these are the allowable amounts. Planning your diet and building your food pyramid around research and studies. It is a totally confused and young eating and healing arena.

I understand the context-- that the US is a culture of immigrants with no single "line" of culture, passed-on tradition, or knowledge of native plants and food products.

However, discounting "alternative" health practices as un-scientific and therefore ineffective, is quite irresponsible. To a large degree, this assumes that validation by scholarly work is a pre-requisite to effectiveness. I am quite wary of newfangled inventions towards preventive health. However, I have more faith in traditional or other alternative medicine than Western medicine, simply because time and tremendous anecdotal information to be more reliable than piecemeal studies that do not cite the myriad other variables to be found outside a laboratory.

That being said, the way that Western medicine organizes its health studies is very reductionist and immature, in my view. Furthermore, it is extremely dogmatic and lacks attention to the subtleties of the body. It is not the information that is there, but how this information is arranged that I find to be lacking the capacity to see the big picture.


When only an expert is "fit" to tell you about the status of your body, there is something wrong with the system.

Personally, there were so many signs that we had been taught to observe since we were young-- our tongue, our voice, our sleeping patterns, how we feel when we wake up, our hair quality, our poop! On all counts of my past health problems, I was always 200x more successful at detecting, deducing, and solving them than any Western-oriented health specialist I went to-- and I consulted some of the best, both here and of the private industry in the US. From my experiences with them, I can safely conclude that many of them know many small details, and I applaud them for being able to memorize all those names of diseases and such.

If it "helps" you like the power of prayer does, then you're just enjoying the benefits of the placebo effect.

"just" is not a good way to describe this. A "placebo effect" of something like a spontaneous remission from an evangelical prayer session is very real even though science cannot figure out why it happened.