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Life Means Nothing and is Going Nowhere. Somebody prove me wrong. Please.

S

snazzy_sn

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Feb 15, 2007
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I'm in a very poor state of mind right now, and to be quite honest I'm not even sure if any of this makes sense or is even in the right forum. It's probably just my usual garbage tweaker writing that I'll erase when I wake up.
I was gonna post this in the dark side, but this isn't really about my problems. I just need somebody to tell me the answers or how to find them before I lose myself completely.
Coming off of drugs tends to amplify these thoughts and beliefs, but hey this is why I'm doing drugs in the first place.
I'm not gonna really go in to detail because in my current state I'm incapable. This is the short version of my philosophy. That of an athiest. Someone who tries to see everything objectively. That of a junkie and a thief.
I don't believe in god. I don't believe in anything spiritual, other than drug induced experiences.
From a purely objective standpoint, there is no right and wrong therefore these are empty too.
Doing what makes you happy is probably the closest thing to what's right but this doesn't make it any more meaningful.

We are all bags of blood and we will all die someday. The world will end one day. Everything is essentially futile.
Happiness and our emotions etc are merely a series of chemical reactions nothing more, which is how I justify my drug use. Shooting up meth and heroin cause a maximum release of happiness possible. Psychedelics are where I find my "spirituality" and this too is nothing more than chemical reactions.

I have my reasons for believing these things. It's been like that since god "abandoned" me eleven years ago.
I've made various attempts since then to seek him out but I feel foolish. Like I'm trying to fool myself.

I want something. I need to believe in something. Even if it weren't real, at least I could be happy. I've been mad for quite some time now, but the reckless abandon derived from trying to cope with leading a meaningless existence and living in a meaningless world have been getting progressively worse. I'm 21 years old, and at the rate I'm going I'll be dead within the two or three years from drug overdose or the violence associated with drug addiction, or suicide.

My beliefs and my philosophy are strong, but I'm not strong enough to live with them.
Somebody tell me what to do, what to think, tell me I'm wrong, but most importantly tell me why I'm wrong. If you argue that life has meaning tell me why. I need a reason. I've been searching so hard this last month and found nothing other than things that have reinforced my beliefs.

Like I said, this post is probably garbage and I'll probably erase it tomorrow, but hey. Who knows? Couldn't hurt to ask.
 
click

I personally have some similar sentiments, but I tend to find some value in just how involved are life's can seem. It is entertaining enough to keep me around.
 
no matter what anybody tries to argue nobody knows if life means anything or not. How could anyone possibly ever know???
 
1. your hypothesis provides the frame in which the facts of life will present themselves. it 'colors' them. it will also act as a filter separating meaningless from meaningful within its scope (ie.: discard as garbage vs. useless to further hypothesis)

2. the justification of your drug use depends on your current framework. you effectively made it twice as difficult to change perspective. all the negative consequences and addiction patterns serve to further reinforce the feedback loop your hypothesis created, creating an extra, emotionally laden, barrier of guilt and/or shame to renewed thought. since you appear to be dependent on said justification to ward off the negative consequences of your drug use as meaningless while they are in reality, judging from the general direction your post, (negatively) meaningful to you; your rationalization has already failed from a logical point of view.

conclusion: in order to come to an effective change in perception (should you seek that), you need to tackle your drug dependence first, as it is interfering with an honest point of view. then, understand that a hypothesis is formed on the basis of a belief, which is held, and which subsequently reinforces itself through the perspective it itself has allowed for. i'd recommend reading literature outside of the scope of your current philosophical position if you wish to venture towards a new perspective. nobody can do that for you, and nobody will convince you if you do not take that first step yourself, reasonable as they may be. this is because skepticism will always provide you with the simplest of escape routes back to your habitual pattern.
 
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Yes, some literature would be good.

The thing is, I've quit the drugs before. I do so well and my life gets good, but in the end it all seems meaningless and I destroy all the good.
I'm checking myself in to rehab next week. I'm gonna give it another shot, but it seems so futile because I'm still gonna have this mindset that always destroys me in the end.
I'm so tired. I've had an extremely difficult life especially for my age and I'm so tired of this cycle but unless I have a breakthrough I'm ultimately doomed.
I try. I try and a keep an open mind to everything, but god and spirituality are two things I can't accept. I've been through a lot trying to find the answers and I'm at wits end.
But yes, I'd definately like for you to recommend some literature. It was the philosophy of Ayn Rand that kind of finalized my beliefs.
 
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hm. well something completely opposite to that would be 'The Concept of Anxiety in Soren Kierkegaard' by Arne Gron. its written for philosophy students so it should be relatively accessible (even though the work it discusses (Kierkegaards 'The Concept of Anxiety') is rather difficult). but that (anxiety and freedom) be a topic that interests me, it might not be that useful or fitting for you

its difficult if not near impossible to really recommend something that lies far enough outside your normal scope and yet still be interesting enough to you (ie. not too far). maybe look for a seminar that has an alluring topic, it shouldn't be too hard to find entry level philosophical courses/seminars in your area that only take a few hours in order to warm you up to something. many older folk suddenly gain an interest in philosophy, so such courses are usually not too hard to find. but do look for one that is taught by someone that has some credentials (professor at this or that university)

also, take a look at the 'is drug taking stealing your soul juice thread'
 
perhaps others can recommend some good and not too heavy works, or you can look for a 'books that changed your life thread' around here, im sure there oughtta be a few floating around
 
try to approach an understanding from the between

pleasure - pain
love - breakup-suffering
health - sickness
desire - boredom
life - death
good - evil
a sunny day on which you go out for drinks with your friends - a depressive rainy day where you stay inside
spontaneous positive opportunities - sudden inexplicable tragic events
laughter - tears
enthousiasm - depression
a friendly face - someone who is hateful to you
etc.

everything in reality moves "between" opposites. Analyse them and learn to live with them. If you want to take a reflective (philosophical) attitude towards it, try to "see" something beyond these opposites. No element can exist without the other (and a life without suffering would not be a life). But maybe there is somehing beyond (read: "between") these transitional oppositional states that was worth living for (e.g. "between" good and evil there is the constant strive to undo the evil and strive for the good; the world will probably never be completely good, neither completely evil; but what remains constant throughout these opposites is the strive towards the good). Similar reasonings can be applied to all opposites, in particular meaningfulness vs. meaninglessness. Life is not completely meaningful neither completely meaningless, probably something "between," and what remains constant "between" is the human spirit transcending its own meaningless condition craving always greater meaningful realizations in this world. If we could fix the meaning (i.e. "the meaning of life is X") then this exact univocal definition will destablize itself and become something meaningless itself. Compare this with our understanding of love-relationships, if we could define the essence of a love-relationship in 100 propositions, the love-relationship becomes something meaningless itself. You have to learn to live with the ambiguity of things, and try not to be to eager for one fixed universal meaning of life. Reality (in particular, the meaning of life) cannot be understood in a "determinative" univocal way, but maybe there is an understanding from the between where we learn something through all these opposites, and learn to embrace them (that is, both pleasure and suffering, both life and death, both good and bad, both meaningfulness and meaninglessness, etc.)
 
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I have my reasons for believing these things. It's been like that since god "abandoned" me eleven years ago.
I've made various attempts since then to seek him out but I feel foolish. Like I'm trying to fool myself.
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here is my hypothesis about who god is (and why some people can relate to him as if he actually is the silly "giant guy in the sky" type god), and it should go well with your nihilist philosophy. god could be a piece of ourselves that we "split off" at an early (infant) stage of our development. that might be why psychedelics seem to "turn everything on", connecting everything eg early memories, and at the same time the psychedelic state (with the right set/setting) is indistinguishable, as far as any scientific instrument can tell, from sober spiritual experiences.
I want something. I need to believe in something. Even if it weren't real, at least I could be happy. I've been mad for quite some time now, but the reckless abandon derived from trying to cope with leading a meaningless existence and living in a meaningless world have been getting progressively worse. I'm 21 years old, and at the rate I'm going I'll be dead within the two or three years from drug overdose or the violence associated with drug addiction, or suicide.
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figuring out sustainable hedonism for yourself is much more tricky than simple hedonism. good luck figuring that mountain. ;)
My beliefs and my philosophy are strong, but I'm not strong enough to live with them.
Somebody tell me what to do, what to think, tell me I'm wrong, but most importantly tell me why I'm wrong. If you argue that life has meaning tell me why. I need a reason. I've been searching so hard this last month and found nothing other than things that have reinforced my beliefs.
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it seems to me that meaning is up to us to make. we can delude ourselves and say meaning comes from elsewhere (eg divine intervention), but see my hypothesis above for why i consider that a delusion.

the meaning i've chosen to hold is that it's always good to help people and help our species/planet, or at least try.

the reason i have hope for the planet and my region and myself is A) people grow sometimes, B) you also can see evolution in thought and language and art if you look over our species' history, C) it can be very fun to be a part of that growth, and the growth can accelerate.

i would also say our choices matter because if our happiness matters then the universes in others' heads matter as well; in fact there is no real separation between "us and them", any boundary or line we ever see or don't see is constructed by human cognition. to help others is to help oneself, to help oneself is to help others.

i'm not saying that all of this isn't possibly futile. but it's a "semi rational" reason to live and set long term goals. then there is the further semi rational reason that there has to be more to reality than we know; if a species can evolve to our emotional and intellectual and mystical height, and another species to the height of a dog, and they can co-exist on the same planet... it seems probable that there are things for our species to find that we don't understand yet, even other species that have learned and evolved more than us.

so, the search for awareness of the universe is useful and meaningful, because we don't yet know where to place our meaning ;) sentience is the universe trying to understand itself...

if you're not strong enough to pull yourself or others up to the next branch of this giant christmas tree that is reality, perhaps you could find somebody strong enough?

learn to use your brain: find a healthy, friendly environment, with trusting people and no obligations; take a ton of acid; and rebuild your personality over the next month. then slowly re-introduce yourself to the rest of the world. ;)
 
I always wonder what the point of worrying about this is. You will most likely never know what the point or meaning to life is, in your lifetime, so worrying is beyond pointless. Besides the more important question is this, since you have no clue what or whether there even is a meaning to life, how does this even affect you? Only by how you think about it, would be my answer. IDK if i'm just one strange mother fucker, but to me, whats the difference if there is no point? I'll still live the same life I was going to regardless so I suppose thats a reason I could care less but.......

The only thing futile is the mind and its sad thoughts IMO. Just because there isn't some sign in space thats numbered 1. 2. 3. and lists things for us to do doesn't make life any more or less pointless in my mind. In fact, I believe I would find the giant numbered sign life more futile as I would have to do what some dumbass sign says instead of what I really want to(pointless's meaning pretty much to me! wasting time doing things you don't want to or in other words pointless activities....). A word like pointless will always come down to your interpretation as only things you find worthwhile, contain a point where as things that aren't are pointless.....
 
why is meaning so important, who told you the universe has some ultimate purpose or meaning ?

What is the point of dancing ?, there is no point, the point IS the dance as it is happening, well perhaps the universe is like that, like music maybe, no point or meaning to it, just the experience as it unfolds.
 
OP. You're right. Life has no meaning. We are just sacks of flesh here to reproduce and fertilze the earth. BUT.. your mind is causing you suffering. Turn inwards and seek from which it arises, and you will find peace. Psychedelics can give you insight or new perspective but it isn't something to be doing again and again.
 
Life means everything! Life is everything. Every moment of life is a beautiful and wonderful thing. It is about the moment. The past and future do help to define the moment in some ways, but the moment is the moment. Loving life is not always easy, but I do love life. I hate it, too, at times, but I do love it so. It has allowed me to be, and allowed me to feel so many things, do so many things. I like this quote by the character of Viriginia Woolf in the movie, The Hours (I do believe it was her actual quote) - “To look life in the face, always, to look life in the face, and to know it for what it is...at last, to love it for what it is, and then to put it away.” It is so very wonderful. The only part I struggle with is "and then to put away". I am not sure what she means by this exactly, perhaps to accept death, perhaps to ignore certain parts of life, perhaps to move on to the next moment. I do not know. But that quote says it all. Look life in the face, always, know it for what it is, and love it for what it is.
 
Your life lacks ultimate purpose. Your life can only have meaning and purpose if your life itself has purpose. You can give your life tiny little purposes, but if you dont have ultimate purpose, all the tiny little purposes are just ways of tranquilizing your boredom.

Thats why St Augustine said that "Our hearts are restless, until they find their rest in Thee."
 
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webbykevin said:
What is the point of dancing ?, there is no point, the point IS the dance as it is happening, well perhaps the universe is like that, like music maybe, no point or meaning to it, just the experience as it unfolds.
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quoted for simplicity and elegance :)
 
Nobody truly knows the meaning of life, or if there even is one. However, that doesn't mean life isn't worth living. Just try and do what you enjoy, and if you are having a bad life, find out what you are doing wrong and learn from it. Life was never meant to be easy. To be honest, it can be downright terrible at times. I see life kind of like a roller coaster. There's gonna be ups, there's gonna be downs, but either way, you're along for the ride, so you might as well try to enjoy it.
As for reading, I would say read Siddhartha by Herman Hesse if you haven't already. Its an easy read but it really struck a chord with me. Life is objective so you have to find your own meaning for it, not just follow some one elses. If you believe that life is meaningless and is going nowhere, I would suggest reading The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus.
As for belief in a higher power,I was atheist for a time but now I am agnostic, leaning toward deism. The way I see it, every effect has a cause, so theoretically if you go backward in time, there must be something that had no cause; that was the first cause. That would technically be considered god, but I don't know if this cause would be sentient or not. It could simply be an equation that set the big bang in motion, or it could be a conscious being that judges us. But I won't know the answer until I die, and if there is no afterlife, I guess I won't be conscious to realize there is nothing. Sometimes I envy people that think they know what happens to them when they die. I would like to believe in an afterlife, but I don't think its possible for me to truly believe, only to hope.

To sum up everything, Life is what you make it. It's objective so you have to decide what belief (if any) is right for you.
 
Meaning is inherently subjective. You can no more have an objective meaning than you can have an objective opinion. All of our values are self-determined.

I've been in the state of mind you're in, it's not nice. But I guarantee, given time, it becomes clear that like any view on reality, a state of mind is all it is. Existential depression is common in people who think everything through a lot (too much, people keep telling me) and at it's best, it's a way to learn and grow.

I guess it's harder when you don't think there's anything after death. But even if there isn't, the nothing that's beyond the only thing that actually is i.e. our experience alive, here and now, shouldn't be important. What's important is what you value in this life. Do you love anyone? Is there something, somewhere, someone you want to be? Is there anything in the world that's important to you?

If there is, then you've found your meaning already.

If there isn't, then you've found the real source of your depression instead.

Because the question is never really whether there's meaning in life itself, but whether there's meaning in your life.
 
Flickering said:
Meaning is inherently subjective. You can no more have an objective meaning than you can have an objective opinion. All of our values are self-determined.

I've been in the state of mind you're in, it's not nice. But I guarantee, given time, it becomes clear that like any view on reality, a state of mind is all it is. Existential depression is common in people who think everything through a lot (too much, people keep telling me) and at it's best, it's a way to learn and grow.

I guess it's harder when you don't think there's anything after death. But even if there isn't, the nothing that's beyond the only thing that actually is i.e. our experience alive, here and now, shouldn't be important. What's important is what you value in this life. Do you love anyone? Is there something, somewhere, someone you want to be? Is there anything in the world that's important to you?

If there is, then you've found your meaning already.

If there isn't, then you've found the real source of your depression instead.

Because the question is never really whether there's meaning in life itself, but whether there's meaning in your life.
Click to expand...

This hit home. This did something for me that I'm not even going to begin to try and explain until my head clears because in my current state I wouldn't do justice.
Heh, thank you



Most of what has been said lies outside my... I dunno, I understand but in my current state of mind (now it's DXM binging) but I'm unable to really converse without feeling intellectually inadequate. Please know that much of what has been said has been really helpful and I appreciate the feedback.

The people in my life that I try and explain this to either don't understand or try and talk to me about god.
I might be being melodramatic, but I'm really glad I posted this. I might not have found an answer but suggestions being made by people who actually know what the fuck I'm trying to explain has helped me feel... Like I dunno.... I can move forward from this dead end I've been stuck at for so long.

I've been on this journey seeking self-realization and happiness for a long time. The last two years of my life have been... I dunno. Intense in this regard and I dunno... Thank you. Aside from giving me a starting point here, my thought process has been... At least validated in a sense that... I always thought it was just nonsense, and while it may be incorrect at least now I know... Argh. Can't think right now I guess what I'm trying to say is...

Thank you.
 
-=SS=- said:
OP. You're right. Life has no meaning. We are just sacks of flesh here to reproduce and fertilze the earth. BUT.. your mind is causing you suffering. Turn inwards and seek from which it arises, and you will find peace. Psychedelics can give you insight or new perspective but it isn't something to be doing again and again.
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how could anyone possibly know if there is no meaning in life? there may be and there may not be. There is no true answer that us humans know.
 
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