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Let's have a little talk about Serotonin Syndrome, Shall we?

Thou

Thou

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
10,860
Okay folks, I'm sure with todays endless supply of dopamine, serotonin, noradrenaline (norepeniphrphrine) inhibitors being pushed into the bloodstreams of good solid American intellects, some of whom didn't think better to question the doctor or research the medicine, perhaps because of the inability due to being too young many years ago when they gave them to children as young as 12 (possibly younger I don't have a concrete reference on hand, for instance anecdotally I was thrown on at 15 effexor 450mg he got me for some odd reason ($?) up until one day I forgot to take my medicine and lost my mind), and for those who also enjoy all the other compounds and matters that react with serotonin in some way, maybe we can share our experiences.

If for some reason, some day you may have recieved this interesting little condition at some point and would like to share your experience I'd love to hear it and I think others would too. For instance, I myself am currently experiencing isomething mild right now stupidly on account of taking dxm in place of my effexor which I'd been taking for a month after a suicide attempt (all better now, CBT DBT Meditation and small doses of klonopin and wellbutrin and effexor and neurontin transparently are my current necesarry neurolytical needs. It seems to be ramping up hopefully 1mg of klonopin will slow it down, though it did happen to take me to the craziest synchronicities in my life this day of days I can't explain right now of course for brevity reasons, but soon to come.

So whatchyall' think?

Serotonin syndrome is a potentially life-threatening drug reaction that may occur following therapeutic drug use, inadvertent interactions between drugs, overdose of particular drugs, or the recreational use of certain drugs. Serotonin syndrome is not an idiopathic drug reaction; it is a predictable consequence of excess serotonergic activity at central nervous system (CNS) and peripheral serotonin receptors.[1] For this reason, some experts strongly prefer the terms serotonin toxicity or serotonin toxidrome because these more accurately reflect the fact that it is a form of poisoning.[2][3] It may also be called serotonin sickness, serotonin storm, serotonin poisoning, hyperserotonemia, or serotonergic syndrome.
The excess serotonin activity produces a spectrum of specific symptoms including cognitive, autonomic, and somatic effects. The symptoms may range from barely perceptible to fatal.[1] Numerous drugs and drug combinations have been reported to produce serotonin syndrome. Diagnosis of serotonin syndrome includes observing the symptoms produced and a thorough investigation of the patient's history. The syndrome has a characteristic picture but can be mistaken for other illnesses in some people, particularly those with neuroleptic malignant syndrome. No laboratory tests can currently confirm the diagnosis.[3]
Treatment consists of discontinuing medications which may contribute and in moderate to severe cases administering a serotonin antagonist. An important adjunct treatment includes controlling agitation with benzodiazepine sedation. The high-profile case of Libby Zion, who is generally accepted to have died from serotonin syndrome,[1] resulted in changes to graduate medical education in New York State.[4]
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=D
 
No question, just share your experiences with Serotonin Syndrome and how it affected you physically and psychologically.

Sorry I've been up all night writing and can be a bit verbose at times. :/

;)
 
I think you're ill-defining serotonin syndrome. It's an extremely rare and potentially life-threatening condition. You're not gunna find loads of people in here who have been unfortunate enough to experience it.
 
Maybe some other forum perhaps? It's quite common to have episodes of serotonin syndrome, particularly concerning serotonergic drugs such as the empathogens and entactogens discussed in this forum, in varying degrees of severity.

I'm curious, why do you think no one here who would use MDMA and variety of analogs, sometimes quite irresponsibly, that I'm not going to find a portion of the community who has experienced it?

I suffered it with venlafaxine and dextromethorphen once and it was rather unpleasant but not life threatening, just required hospitalization, intravenous lorazepam alongside a saline drip and monitoring. It was terrifying at one point.

I also was intoxicated and took 600mg of escitalopram at once and was hospitalized for three days, suicide attempt during a drunken argument with my mother. If I hadn't taken 20mg of clonaezpam immediately afterward, I would have been horribly suffering and it would have been potentially life threatening. At the hospital they only gave me .5 mg ativan twice a day even though I told them my tolerance was up to 5mg a day legitimately prescribed for ptsd and agoraphobia.

I had light brain zaps and nystagmus and was pretty out of it for 3 days but obviously it wasn't life threatening.
I'm curious what you'd consider that episode to be defined as if you're operating under the supposition that it's a rare syndrome.

This is the literal medical definition:

Definition

By Mayo Clinic Staff

Serotonin syndrome occurs when you take medications that cause high levels of the chemical serotonin to accumulate in your body.
Serotonin syndrome can occur when you increase the dose of such a drug or add a new drug to your regimen. Certain illegal drugs and dietary supplements also are associated with serotonin syndrome.
Serotonin is a chemical your body produces that's needed for your nerve cells and brain to function. But too much serotonin causes symptoms that can range from mild (shivering and diarrhea) to severe (muscle rigidity, fever and seizures). Severe serotonin syndrome can be fatal if not treated.
Milder forms of serotonin syndrome may go away within a day of stopping the medications that cause symptoms and, sometimes, taking drugs that block serotonin.

Symptoms

By Mayo Clinic Staff


Serotonin syndrome symptoms usually occur within several hours of taking a new drug or increasing the dose of a drug you're already taking. Signs and symptoms include:


  • Agitation or restlessness
  • Confusion
  • Rapid heart rate and high blood pressure
  • Dilated pupils
  • Loss of muscle coordination or twitching muscles
  • Muscle rigidity
  • Heavy sweating
  • Diarrhea
  • Headache
  • Shivering
  • Goose bumps
Severe serotonin syndrome can be life-threatening. Signs and symptoms include:

  • High fever
  • Seizures
  • Irregular heartbeat
  • Unconsciousness
When to see a doctor

If you suspect you might have serotonin syndrome after starting a new drug or increasing the dose of a drug you're already taking, call your doctor right away or go to the emergency room. If you have severe or rapidly worsening symptoms, seek emergency treatment immediately.
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Serotonin syndrome refers to something highly specific, and yes, very rare. From what you describe, you did not experience SS.

ebola
 
ebola? said:
Serotonin syndrome refers to something highly specific, and yes, very rare. From what you describe, you did not experience SS.

ebola
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^ Basically that. However, it does seem like the definition for serotonin syndrome is becoming so loose that mild SS is just the MDMA experience itself...
 
it does seem like the definition for serotonin syndrome is becoming so loose
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The definition hasn't become loose; rather, a bunch of people are now using the wrong definition. This is a medical term, so popular usage can't legitimately change what it means.

ebola
 
ebola? said:
The definition hasn't become loose; rather, a bunch of people are now using the wrong definition. This is a medical term, so popular usage can't legitimately change what it means.

ebola
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Some sources I've read are beginning to describe mild SS with symptoms of eye wiggles and gurning... I agree with you though.
 
ebola? said:
The definition hasn't become loose; rather, a bunch of people are now using the wrong definition. This is a medical term, so popular usage can't legitimately change what it means.

ebola
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Overdose on escitalopram was documented at the hospital as Serotonin Syndrome I experienced. I'm not saying the doctors were correct in their Dx of my overdose, but that is what is on paper from a team of doctors who suffered through ten years of schooling when the event occurred, though I don't know if that's a measure of competence when it comes to science or not.

I'm sure some breakthrough will come forward in the future to differentiate the vague nature of the ailment, but until then, I'm just telling you what I experienced.

Maybe psychopharmacologists are at odds with the medical community over the issue, and I'd tend to side with them, but don't shoot the messenger.

;)
 
Serotonin syndrome is not a chronic condition, as you have implied (maybe I am just grossly misunderstanding you). Rather, serotonin syndrome is an acute confluence of multiple symptoms, most crucially, sporadic muscle spasms, raised core temperature, confusion, and dilated pupils. An overdose on a serotonergic drug is hard to distinguish from SS (they may be considered essentially similar), but any lingering symptoms are not "serotonin syndrome".

ebola
 
ebola? said:
Serotonin syndrome is not a chronic condition, as you have implied (maybe I am just grossly misunderstanding you). Rather, serotonin syndrome is an acute confluence of multiple symptoms, most crucially, sporadic muscle spasms, raised core temperature, confusion, and dilated pupils. An overdose on a serotonergic drug is hard to distinguish from SS (they may be considered essentially similar), but any lingering symptoms are not "serotonin syndrome".

ebola
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Oh fuck I was dyslexamined that night sorry you're indeed correct it is accute what I meant.

Duh.

:! Smacks head.
 
I know for sure I had serotonin syndrone once when doing dxm for possibly two days.in a row,then doing some phenethylamine or stimulant,can't remember.but I gotwide eyed,shakey,felt stiff amd was.scared I was guna drop dead or start seizing.. there was another time I tried to stick out taking my 'antidepressant'medication whichas the horrible(for me) celexa.I have tried antidepressants and never.liked em.I never.liked the antsy feeling I got the 3 weeks I stayed on the celexa.It wasn't helping with anything which I knew wud happen.But I started getting weird and sudden mood swings. I wud be fine and talkative one second, and the next.second some thought or something I said wud manifest into something totally different,but wud end up being something I know I did wrong and wud feel just utterly guilty and I wud feel worthless.and after a crying bout I wud feel tingly all over my.face and my.face and.lips wud get.numb.and there was this one spot defenitely in my brain that tingled very much.and not in a good way.I decided 3 weeks latero completely stop taking.the celexa.
And I was almost immediately reminded why I hate anridepressant s and why lil kids especially shudnt be.given them.
The day after.not taking my dose of celexa I knew I was starting to feel the.withdrawl.I wud get.brain zaps,quite unpleasant and scary.And the most noticable.thing.that happened.to me was my out of control emotions.I wud cry for 3.days just sporadically.amd I wud pour our all this guilt I had out to ly girlfriend amd.cry more.and it.wasn't a cry I think I've cried.ever.it was deeply emotional.like u wuda thought someone.near and dear.just died..To say.the least I def did not like my emotions being.that un controllable. And I sisnt expect such odd withdrawl only 3 weeks of taking that evil celexa.
 
I think I may have experienced SS syndrome at one point years ago. I was one about 100mg Zoloft everyday for anxiety, (doctor scripted me Zoloft in rehab, they didn't want to give me benzos) and I was stupid and took very high doses of DXM (1000mg and up) while on the ssri, and it gave me some of the most intense trips of my life, totally indescribable. The problem was I would take just one dose of dxm and would end up tripping for 6 or 7 days at a time because of the sertraline. I remember taking robitussin on a Saturday night and was sitting in my 7th period class that following Friday still tripping. Not to mention I was attending outpatient rehab as per my discharge plan from inpatient.

One of the counselors out right called me out in the middle of group for being high.
 
Unless you were admitted to the ER and diagnosed with SS by a neurologist, you probably haven't experienced it. Quit googling shit and diagnosing yourselves.
 
There are definitely cases of mild serotonin syndrome that don't require hospitalisation. It simply means serotonin toxicity usually from a drug interaction and not just from taking too much MDMA, which is different. However, you can get SS from taking too much of serotonin agent, it just isn't very common. A quick read of the wikipedia article will tell you as much, and it is references plenty of medical journals.

In any case, maybe the topic for discussion should be serotonin toxicity if the word serotonin syndrome makes some people dubious for some reason.

It's probably the most unpleasant overdose/drug interaction you can experience. Gastrointestinal problems, eye floaters, tunnel vision, muscle spasms, delirium, excessive sweating - the whole enchilada
I experienced something with these symptoms and nearly put myself into hospital, but I had enough xanax to sedate me to the point where I passed out. By the time I woke up the unpleasant physical effects had mostly passed. I had side effects for about a month later, though a lot of that was just anxiety. Couldn't eat much for the first week. Couldn't get out of bed for two days. Pretty horrible experience.
 
Yeah, SSRI's have nasty side effects. Doesn't make them SS though
 
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