Cocaine Le Junk's Cocaine Purification Megathread v. The Final Word

[onceuponatime]

the cocaine retail and wholesale charts are pretty informative. On average the cocaine purity in retail samples is 10-60% and in wholesale samples 30-85%

1. Any study, or abstract, or scientific experiment, that shows a data spread of 10-60%, or 30-85%, is basically meaningless.
It shows that the spectrum is so confused that there really is no meaning to the figures. They are simply too scattered to have any merit.
2. Please, go to a lawyer type forum, and ask them about the legalities of posting about drug usage on an online forum.
The use of "SWIM" or whatever is utterly pointless.
Take a look at the thousands of posts on these boards where people discuss drug use and harm reduction.
How many have been arrested for what they posted?8)

 

[epote]

1. Any study, or abstract, or scientific experiment, that shows a data spread of 10-60%, or 30-85%, is basically meaningless.
It shows that the spectrum is so confused that there really is no meaning to the figures. They are simply too scattered to have any merit.

right, and your point is what? That street cocaine is good quality? Man have you ever even seen cocaine up close and personal? My guess is not. In any case a spread of 10-60% is not meaningless its observational, they dont try to deduct anything out of it, they are just reporting.

2. Please, go to a lawyer type forum, and ask them about the legalities of posting about drug usage on an online forum.
The use of "SWIM" or whatever is utterly pointless.
Take a look at the thousands of posts on these boards where people discuss drug use and harm reduction.
How many have been arrested for what they posted?

yeah that settles it, you are one of those forum posters that have no real life knowledge or experience and just perpetuate what others (in other forums...) post.

In any case, point is this:

street cocaine is and feels like crap most of the time, no relevancy to what actually cocaine is. You can argue all you want about that, its true, its very easy to verify it, get out of your moms basement or whatever and buy cocaine. Killogram bricks of cocaine are *mostly* of good quality, even though they are NOT all the same. The realities of illicit cocaine production dictate crude and inefficient methods of extraction etc.

stop being obnoxius

 

[blowMEaway]

well it's starting to look like this current quality cocaine just isn't getting processed properly at the manufacturing point. if those dea stats are even close to legit, then theres pleanty of actual cocaine inside the kilos out there.

so why does it still burn, feel ampy, seem like it's been cut to hell then? i'm starting to lean towards a rushed manufacturing process, only because i don't detect any speed cuts after testing, all the powder reacts like good cocaine and is fully soluble in water. Also after converting to base and smoking, the high is much more enjoyable than insulfation.

are they just getting lazy over there and rushing the process? that's pretty damn sad if so. if this could be the case, then how do we go about finishing their work to get to that smooth mellow euphoric cocaine we expect to have?

there is a world of difference between quality cocaine that hasn't been fucked with and was processed correctly, and the majority of shit thats going around.

 

[xxl]

are they just getting lazy over there and rushing the process?

Not lazy, but victims of the latest US anti-drug tactics. The worldwide embargo on oxidizing agents (potassium permanganate and sodium permanganate) is hampering the manufacturing process. "Operation purple" is the name of the anti-drug programme, purple being the colour of potassium permanganate. The US have hailed it as successful, unlike many previous anti-drug programmes.

Google the following: permanganate DEA cocaine

 

[Le Junk]

Could it be that some of us have a rather glorious view of how great coke was when we were younger?
Maybe.

Or maybe it's just an urban legend.
Please, someone prove me wrong.
Show me all the kilos coming into the country that are already cut to 50%.

I understand your view and concerns. If I were new to cocaine or had only started using in the last 10 years, I would feel the exact same way. I'd probably be asking myself, "what is wrong with these people?", "what's the big deal with coke anyway, it totally sucks!". I couldn't agree more....today anyway.

In answer to your first hypothosis, it's definately not a tolerance issue or lost honeymoon stage. In my first years of using cocaine regularly (1985-), it was always great, regardless of dealer. Then around the late '80's, it was a strongly pronounced one bad bag out of 30 that was absolutely awful! It felt as though you were going to have a heart attack, non-talkative, non-sexual etc. Since we weren't familiar enough yet with good or bad quality cocaine, know there was a difference to begin with, or worse yet, were totally unaware an entire change was abrewing, we merely dismissed it as just doing to much. Then about one out of every 20 bags, then one out of every 10, 5 until eventually every other bag around the early '90's here in Indianapolis, IN. Now it's one great bag every 5 years. And that's being generous! Now, during my trips to South America and Central America, this is definately not the case. Down there, it's back to '80's blow again, so go figure........

In the early years, we used to have parties on great coke that would last for 3 straight days. No eating, no sleeping, no uncomfortableness, nothing! Just a great buzz that no one felt bad on. No one was locked up or geeked out. That didn't even exist! Just chatty, bar hopping, party hopping, multiple sex partners, strip poker, pool, 21 whatever! Great stuff, great times. The only reason for stopping was out of pure exhaustion or hunger. You can't tell me that's an urban myth, my friend. I lived it......

I've tried blow today with people from the old days that haven't done it since then. In fact, I did that with an old friend of mine just before I finally gave it up nearly 5 months ago. His first comments after doing a couple of lines were, "what the hell is this shit?" And I said, "it's the new coke!" He did a few more lines and said, "I see why that didn't work out for Coca-Cola either". He didn't do anymore after that. That should tell you something right there.

As far as kilos coming into the States being 50% or better doesn't surprise me at all. The question is, just how many hands does it go thru before getting into mine, and secondly, yet more importantly, what constitutes the other 50-100% of the kilo? If it's some other "active" cut, then it will alter the cocaine high dramatically. There's your answer. I'm putting all my money on Mexico. Always have, always will. Until they got involved, everything was great. Reagan's War On Drugs campaign was more successful than people realize. It got the Colombians out of the importing business and let then Mexicans in.

I think the real nswer lies in exactly what the other 50-100% of that kilo is made up of. In that you'll find your answer, my freind. Dig deeper, much deeper....

Le Junk

P.S. I have something ingenious planned that just might turn the cocaine trades secret upside down. Stay tuned for more details. I'll be going public with it...........

 

[onceuponatime]

right, and your point is what? That street cocaine is good quality? Man have you ever even seen cocaine up close and personal? My guess is not. In any case a spread of 10-60% is not meaningless its observational, they dont try to deduct anything out of it, they are just reporting.

If there is a spread of 10-60%, it would show that there is so much variability in the product that it turns into a coin flip. There is apparently no "average", since the spread is so large.

yeah that settles it, you are one of those forum posters that have no real life knowledge or experience and just perpetuate what others (in other forums...) post.

Do a search for my other posts.

street cocaine is and feels like crap most of the time, no relevancy to what actually cocaine is. You can argue all you want about that, its true, its very easy to verify it, get out of your moms basement or whatever and buy cocaine.

Could it possible be that your dealer sucks?
Is it possible that since there is cocaine at the 80% level coming into the country, that others may have access to it?

Killogram bricks of cocaine are *mostly* of good quality, even though they are NOT all the same. The realities of illicit cocaine production dictate crude and inefficient methods of extraction etc.

If the extraction methods are crude, which I agree they are, why is there still cocaine in the 80% range coming in?

stop being obnoxius

After reading your post, how am I the obnoxious one?
I posted a reasonable question, backed up with cold facts, and you started saying I have no knowledge of the real world, I live in my mom's basement, and I'm obnoxious.
that's an intelligent method of discussion you have there.

 

[onceuponatime]

In my first years of using cocaine regularly (1985-), it was always great, regardless of dealer.

Funny, my first time was 1985 too Ahhh, senior prom, big hair, cheasy tux,Duran Duran, what a night...

As far as kilos coming into the States being 50% or better doesn't surprise me at all. The question is, just how many hands does it go thru before getting into mine, and secondly, yet more importantly, what constitutes the other 50-100% of the kilo?

If we theorize that the coke in the 1980's was "great", than that leads to the big question- what is different now?
The coke coming in is apparently still in the ~80% range. Even if the coke in the 1980's was closer to 90%, that's not enough of a difference to make it so different.
So is it the cuts?
The kilos tested by the DEA are not showing any "active" cuts.
It's typically Diltiazem (which would actually be a good thing to have in blow, in terms of your risk for arrhythmias).
They are NOT finding Meth in the blow.
Street level dealers aren't gonna cut blow with meth- it's not cost effective.

So what is the difference?
My whole point is that if the product is still coming in 80% pure, which has to be pretty close to what it was in the 1980's, what is so different now?

If it's some other "active" cut, then it will alter the cocaine high dramatically. There's your answer. I'm putting all my money on Mexico. Always have, always will. Until they got involved, everything was great. Reagan's War On Drugs campaign was more successful than people realize. It got the Colombians out of the importing business and let then Mexicans in.

Yet the DEA reports simply don't back this up.
there is no blow being tested that is any different in regards to percentage of purity.
They can trace excatly where the leaves came from, and what solvents were used to make it.
They simply aren't finding this horrible, Mexican-ruined blow.

I think the real nswer lies in exactly what the other 50-100% of that kilo is made up of. In that you'll find your answer, my freind. Dig deeper, much deeper....

Based on our knowledge of chemistry, which you have a much broader knowledge, what "Active" cuts could be causing this horrible effect on the blow?
You have admitted that the likelihood of blow being dcut with meth is slim to none.
Items like procaine, lidocaine, Diltiazem, vitamins, or laxatives, aren't going to make a big difference in the "high".
In other words, the inactive cuts will change the "quantity" but not the "quality" of the high.
I've dug pretty deep, and I'm just not seeing this magical cut that is making users angry, edgy, non-talkative, etc.
Until I see better evidence, I'm just not convinced that there is a mystical cut being used.


Take a look at Xstacy tablets nowadays.
If someone said, "The x now sucks compared to back in the day", I would agree.
You can easily see where pills being tested now often contain no "x" at all, but are made up of caffeine,meth, Ketamine,PCP, whatever.
Usually very little or no X at all. Getting 15-30mg in a tablet is great, whereas back in the 1980's they would have 150mg.
This is verifiable, it's documented, it's all out there to read.
But there is no such evidence that cocaine is all that different now, other than user's reports, which you must admit can be a little "biased".

 

[xxl]

But there is no such evidence that cocaine is all that different now...

I've been doing coke in Peru and I haven't been able to get high from the stuff. It's not active cuts, it's much worse! Read this:

(Posted by gruvytune in 2005)

"After tons of research, i've concluded, without actually sending out a sample to a lab, that there are 2 forms of "cocaine" circulating, generallizing of course, since both can be cut down with all sorts of crap.
....

Theres the highly purified cocaine that is refined properly including the oxidation step involving permanganate that usually yields a slightly off white, soft chunky crystalline rock with a freebase that melts at about 85C and has a yellow oily color. this is the real deal.

Then there is the poor quality (usually Bolivian) coke that unfortunately, they did not purify with an oxidative step to remove the highly predominant alkaloids like cinnamoylcocaine which in many plants may be as high a content as cocaine itself. This yields a white granular crystal, very bitter, numbing, highly positive reaction on all standard tests for cocaine. The freebase melts higher right about 95C and is white and hard. The psychological effects are poor with an annoying dizzying high and little euphoria. There is evidence that some of these alkaloids may block cocaines effect at the receptor although they have little actual effect by themselves.

There really is no way to actually purify this out unfortunately. Since the supply of potassium permanganate has been limited by tight control, it has become more valuable than coca itself in many areas and the skipping of this important step yields terribly inferior cocaine. This all started about 15years ago."



Here's an excerpt from a page describing the extraction of cocaine from the leaves (again, my emphasis)


Dried coca leaves contain up to 1% cocaine. They are processed into cocaine hydrochloride in clandestine laboratories. The leaves are moistened with lime water or other alkali and extracted with kerosene (paraffin). The dissolved cocaine is extracted from the kerosene with sulfuric acid to produce an aqueous solution of cocaine sulfate. This solution is neutralised with lime, causing cocaine base (coca paste) to precipitate. Coca paste is redissolved in sulfuric acid and potassium permanganate is added to destroy cinnamoylcocaine and other impurities....

Note that even if you got your hands on some potassium permanganate, you couldn't perform the missing step because it involves another dangerous chemical, namely sulfuric acid. No way to try this at home (or is there?). It's incredible, but if the above is true, which I strongly suspect it is, the whole world is now getting hooked on cocaine that is hardly better than speed or amps in terms of high.

 

[Leolo]

Hi everyone,

I've just found this link:
http://www.wola.org/media/Are we there yet.pdf

Take a look at page 5, the graph in the "Figure 3".

The entire report basically says that retail and wholesale prices are at historically low levels, but by contrast, purity is at historically high levels.

That's quite counter-intuitive, and it must be very bad news for the government.

But the question is: are those figures completely reliable? Did they buy retail cocaine in many different places to get data sufficiently representative of the entire country?

Does anyone know what procedures do the ONDCP studies follow?

Regards.

 

[Le Junk]

Funny, my first time was 1985 too Ahhh, senior prom, big hair, cheasy tux,Duran Duran, what a night...



If we theorize that the coke in the 1980's was "great", than that leads to the big question- what is different now?
The coke coming in is apparently still in the ~80% range. Even if the coke in the 1980's was closer to 90%, that's not enough of a difference to make it so different.
So is it the cuts?
The kilos tested by the DEA are not showing any "active" cuts.
It's typically Diltiazem (which would actually be a good thing to have in blow, in terms of your risk for arrhythmias).
They are NOT finding Meth in the blow.
Street level dealers aren't gonna cut blow with meth- it's not cost effective.

So what is the difference?
My whole point is that if the product is still coming in 80% pure, which has to be pretty close to what it was in the 1980's, what is so different now?



Yet the DEA reports simply don't back this up.
there is no blow being tested that is any different in regards to percentage of purity.
They can trace excatly where the leaves came from, and what solvents were used to make it.
They simply aren't finding this horrible, Mexican-ruined blow.


Based on our knowledge of chemistry, which you have a much broader knowledge, what "Active" cuts could be causing this horrible effect on the blow?
You have admitted that the likelihood of blow being dcut with meth is slim to none.
Items like procaine, lidocaine, Diltiazem, vitamins, or laxatives, aren't going to make a big difference in the "high".
In other words, the inactive cuts will change the "quantity" but not the "quality" of the high.
I've dug pretty deep, and I'm just not seeing this magical cut that is making users angry, edgy, non-talkative, etc.
Until I see better evidence, I'm just not convinced that there is a mystical cut being used.


Take a look at Xstacy tablets nowadays.
If someone said, "The x now sucks compared to back in the day", I would agree.
You can easily see where pills being tested now often contain no "x" at all, but are made up of caffeine,meth, Ketamine,PCP, whatever.
Usually very little or no X at all. Getting 15-30mg in a tablet is great, whereas back in the 1980's they would have 150mg.
This is verifiable, it's documented, it's all out there to read.
But there is no such evidence that cocaine is all that different now, other than user's reports, which you must admit can be a little "biased".

Ahhh yes, the parachute pants, big hair, big hair bands, peg leg jeans, does it get any better than that? Actually, it does!

In answer to some of your questions, ironically the blow back in the '80's was actually much less in % than it is today. From what I recall it was somewhere in the 30-40% range. The only difference being that it was nothing more than the inactive cut mannitol mixed in with the cocaine. That resulted in the user doing more, but with no contradicting side effects. The buzz nowdays is definately conflicting.

Now I certainly won't attest to any particular cut as I honestly don't know what it is either. Seriously! All I know is that the buzz from cocaine today is anything but enjoyable, and that opinion is certainly not biased. I actually think it's shared by the majority. Therefore we should work together to solve and thus unlock the mystery once and for all. Like I said earlier, I have a great lil' plan that will acheive this goal.

onceuponatime, I'll PM you my agenda as it's something that cannot be shared as of yet with the forums. Once it's done, I'll certainly create an entire thread reporting the findings. This should help to dispell all the rumors and conjecture once and for all!

Le Junk

P.S. As of right now I am honestly starting to lean a little towards the theories brought forth by xxl as formentioned by gruvytune.

 

[onceuponatime]

Then there is the poor quality (usually Bolivian) coke that unfortunately, they did not purify with an oxidative step to remove the highly predominant alkaloids like cinnamoylcocaine which in many plants may be as high a content as cocaine itself. This yields a white granular crystal, very bitter, numbing, highly positive reaction on all standard tests for cocaine. The freebase melts higher right about 95C and is white and hard. The psychological effects are poor with an annoying dizzying high and little euphoria. There is evidence that some of these alkaloids may block cocaines effect at the receptor although they have little actual effect by themselves.

Now this would be a possibility.
The cocaine is still testing at a good purity, but during the processing either something is displacing the "high causing" material, or something is blocking the uptake of the "high causing" substance.
If this is true, and it does make sense, it would explain alot.

 

[Le Junk]

Now this would be a possibility.
The cocaine is still testing at a good purity, but during the processing either something is displacing the "high causing" material, or something is blocking the uptake of the "high causing" substance.
If this is true, and it does make sense, it would explain alot.

I'm starting to agree with this theory as well.

Le Junk

 

[blowMEaway]

Classically, each of the individual processing steps for cocaine are accomplished in separate so-called "paste," "base," and "crystal" laboratories. More recently and increasingly, however, the traditionally separate, sequential paste and base operations are being condensed into direct leaf-to-base laboratories, skipping the isolation of coca paste.

In the "Direct Leaf-to-Base Laboratories" the coca paste is never isolated. Rather the unoxidized agua rica solution recovered from back-extracting the kerosene solution is filtered, adjusted (if desired) to higher pH with a carbonate or bicarbonate salt, and then treated directly with the potassium permanganate solution. This is a short-cut technique directly converting coca leaf to coke base, and offers several advantages to the clandestine operators.

The purity of illicit natural cocaine typically varies from 80 to 97%. Virtually all unadulterated illicit natural cocaine contains numerous impurities at levels readily detected by chromatographic and spectrometric techniques3,6,8-11,14,16-20,24-27,29-31,33-53. These impurities include co-extracted coca alkaloids, processing chemicals, and solvents. Additional impurities may also be introduced via chemical modification of cocaine or other coca alkaloids during processing and environmental degradation due to heat and humidity. Finally, various inorganic salts (especially bases) may also be present. Alkaloidal impurities that have been identified at significant levels in illicit natural cocaine include N-acetylnorcocaine, 2,3-didehydroecgonine, 2,3-didehydroecgonine methyl ester, benzoic acid, benzoyl ecgonine, N-benzoyl norecgonine methyl ester, trans-cinnamic acid, cis- and trans-cinnamoylcocaine, cis- and trans-cinnamoylecgonine, ecgonine, methyl ecgonine, N-formylcocaine, N-norcocaine, N-norecgonine, tropacocaine, all five diastereoisomeric truxillic acids, all eleven diastereoisomeric truxillines, and all six diastereoisomeric truxinic acids. Cut samples, of course, may contain a wide variety of additional adulterants and/or diluents.

Illicit Production of Cocaine
Casale JF, Klein RFX
Forensic Science Review 5, 95-107 (1993)

Nice info I thought but also outdated, adding more to the puzzle.

 

[xxl]

If this is true, and it does make sense, it would explain alot.

I am now getting more and more certain that this is the case. In my Colombian days someone suggested I tried "base de coca" (= cocaine sulfate) rather than cooked my own crack from blow. The "base de coca" was a powder the colour of straw, with no noticeable smell. I tried it only once because the high was ridiculous. The high was very transient, something like 20 seconds as opposed to minutes with the crack. I thought this lack of activity was due to the unfavourable burning properties of the "base de coca". I pursued the matter no further and reverted to cooking crack. Now it dawns on me that the disappointing high I got of late from my own-cooked crack in Peru is no different from the high I experienced back then from "base de coca". And guess what? "Base de coca" is the stage before final refining, the stage before treatment with permanganate to remove cinnamoylcocaine.

Another clue: In Peru this year my buddy could only get acetone in tiny flasks. He had to sign for it and declare that he was not involved in "narcotráfico". He told me that, in fact, it was harder to procure anhydrous acetone than to find blow. This suggests restrictions on chemicals are really biting in. Think about it: if 100 grams permanganate cost about 100 dollars and 100 grams blow are worth 100 dollars, there's no way they're going to apply permanganate to your blow.

 

[cockney]

Just to add a UK perspective, there is something nasty going on here too.

I got into blow back in the late 80's early 90's with a good connection and the blow was excellent a fifteen year break and to help fight off the impending midlife crisis i recently hooked up with my old mate charlie again. In the past few weeks i have notice two distinct products.
One looks great, shiny, nice to chop but numbs way too quick. It washes with AA well, not much is lost but the hit is not right, introverted, sexual until you try then it all goes a bit wrong, very hard to sleep but not in a speedy way, just restless enough to keep you tossing and turning, monster fiending. Pretty cack really.

Blow two doesn't look too hot, quite dull and brittle, hard to chop, again numbs if you gum a bit but the old teeth falling out feeling is not there, Washes fine, again (real strange) Now this is nasty, this shit falls out of your nose , not all of it but pull up from a line and you need to keep your head over the mirror, it also seems to fly up your nose and straight down your throat. The worst is after 3-4 lines your nose is blocked to fuck, i mean solid, beconase job to get it going again and the blood boogers linger for days.

Both batches were dissolved first in distilled, filtered water, evaporated and then washed with AA. What is this crap ? And what's really worrying is the fact the younger generation think this is 'good shit' ! And check this, when i moaned about the quality, i was told i was being too fussy, lol.
Needless to say it may be another 15 years till i meet that old friend again unless someone figures outWTF is going on.

 

[Le Junk]

Amidst all of this negativity, I'm going to throw in an lil' curve here. I am forgetting, as I've been sober for over 5 months now, that I was able to pull out some rediculously great blow with the forementioned cleanup techniques I provided. Putting the honeymoon stage aside and the fact that I've done blow for 20+ years now, the cleaned up product was especially good, very euphoric, sexual, chatty etc. Basically everything you'd expect from great blow. Was it 1980's blow? No, but on a scale of 1-10, an easy 8. I don't think we should throw all of our eggs into one basket here with this lack of oxidization step. I'll agree that it sounds very, very credible, but to what extent is the blow damaged? Has anyone been able to provide that statistic, or just conjecture?

Here are the stats that I've found with the blow, post clean-up with acetone; there is still a very white powdery substance in addition to the crystals that still cast a somewhat crystalline sheen. It is very, very speedy, non-euphoric, non-sexual, non-chatty, ampy etc. The crystals, once properly evaporated for 48, not 24 hours, are just about as good as it gets. They are completely opposite in appearance from the powder and are very crystalline, shaley and pearlescent. They are the real deal.


Ironically, the chloroform extraction seems to rid of this unpleasantry alltogether. I didn't want to put much emphasis on this cleanup technique as it's much more difficult to perform and the chemical itself is much more difficult to obtain. Though the acetone wash is exceptional in it's overall end result, the chloroform extraction followed by recrystallization, then followed by an acetone wash, is simply unbeatable! The result is a 9 on a scale of 1-10, easily.

I'm PM'ing everyone as to my plan of attack on just what in the hell is this shit anyway, question. PM me back if you have any questions...........

Le Junk

 

[onceuponatime]

Well, to me this just makes it more confusing
If we follow the concept of a different processing technique is rendering the blow less effective, how would a wash render it more effective?

 

[blowMEaway]

Wondering if angry end user feedback ever makes its way back down the line? If so, how far? I doubt Miguel the runner from Chula Vista gives a shit, but can't someone pick up a phone and tell a Mery Valencia or someone like that to GET THIS FUCKING SHIT CORRECTED! PRONTO AMIGROS!

Might they be insulted to hear that we enjoy our trailer park meth way more than their prized coca? Yea, that's right you SA fuckups. Shape it up or don't ship it out! But I guess it just doesn't matter as long as that USD keeps moving their sloppy bazuco operations. Keep on buying, they could care less.

 

[onceuponatime]

True. When ya hear that blow is becoming more popular again, why would the cartel have any incentive to make a better product?

 

[onceuponatime]

Coca paste is redissolved in sulfuric acid and potassium permanganate is added to destroy cinnamoylcocaine and other impurities....[/I]

Note that even if you got your hands on some potassium permanganate, you couldn't perform the missing step because it involves another dangerous chemical, namely sulfuric acid. No way to try this at home (or is there?). It's incredible, but if the above is true, which I strongly suspect it is, the whole world is now getting hooked on cocaine that is hardly better than speed or amps in terms of high.

So if you could remove the cinnamoylcocaine, would it make the cocaine the good stuff again?
The DEA figured out how to do it, but it's beyond me. Can anyone else break this down?
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/programs/forensicsci/microgram/journal_v4_num14/pg5.html
DEA Resources, Microgram Journal, Volume 4, January-December 2006