Opioids Kratom

[OrbitalCombustion]

Right on. Ya you mentioned Krave. I may have to check that out. I typically order bulk (kilos) from a few specific online vendors but am always looking for something with a little more kick.

I always forget to mention cannabis. For me, it is a must with any opioid

Hope the evening continues to treat you well

Thanks brody you as well. I have Constantine on, love that flick.

 

[aspiringchemist]

My order of 15g 20% mitragynine pure alkaloid extract arrived today. It's a newer product from a trusted company; the typical gold reserve vendor. I've probably gone through 100g of this stuff in the past few months since it was released.

Tonight I ingested 2 grams of this extract along with 35mg hydrocodone and it's working quite well. Definitely on par with OPMS. I've used it alone, with plain powder, and pharmaceutical opioids and I can say this extract on top of a good red produces stronger euphoria and analgesia than 40mg hydrocodone imo.

TBH after this many years of usage at such high doses daily I'm finding that I have interdose withdrawls daily and even when I dose it's not that great. Higher doses still work but often leave me nauseated. It's all getting kind of old to me which is why I'm dabbling in extracts alongside low-moderate doses of hydrocodone or oxycodone.

 

[aspiringchemist]

Thanks brody you as well. I have Constantine on, love that flick.

Never seen it. I'll check it out!

 

[Xorkoth]

TBH after this many years of usage at such high doses daily I'm finding that I have interdose withdrawls daily and even when I dose it's not that great. Higher doses still work but often leave me nauseated.

This is why chasing a high with kratom is not sustainable. It has diminishing returns eventually. It's why back in the day I eventually moved on to full opiates after 6 years of heavy kratom addiction.

 

[negrogesic]

Kratom is one of the most compulsive opioids in my opinion (and ive had a huge variety). That every 3-4 dosing regimen gets old very fast. Big doses last a bit longer but cause pretty extreme nausea. Kratom to me is like a sink hole that you can never fill, and you wind up looking like you work in a matcha green tea factory.

 

[aspiringchemist]

I agree with you both. I 100% prefer pharmaceutical opioids to kratom for many reasons. I have legitimate chronic pain conditions and was a pain patient for some time. I just hated the way it all felt, being in the pain clinic I mean. Before all of that I was pretty severely addicted to pharmaceutical opioids and heroin.

Just a matter of availability really. At this point buprenorphine sounds good tbh; I have refractory dysthymia and the mechanical pain, both of which seem to respond to buprenorphine treatment.

 

[Nicomorphinist]

My girlfriend has stomach issues and any amount of garlic or onion beyond a tiny hint will cause her problems. Raw is much worse than cooked but even well-cooked will do it, but the threshold is higher. I've had to learn how to cook delicious savory/umami flavors without it.... before I considered onion the most important part of anything savory. . .
.
.
.

Which spices and techniques do you use for that?

 

[LabRat74]

Havent read all the replies so apologies if this has already been mentioned:

You asked about Kratom potentiators:

One way to potentiate is with piperine, aka black pepper extract. It actually enhances the effect of many sedatives and increases nutrient absorption in the gut. It makes the otherwise useless curcumin (turmeric extract) actually worth a damn for example. You dont need to take a dose of piperine that actually has much of a physiological effect to get the absorption benefits. People take it medicinally sometimes in the range of grams but it can be a double edged sword for this. All you need to potentiate curcumin according to science is 20mg. I take 50mg with my kratom for good measure. Theres a world of difference IME. Extremely handy for getting the benefits you need from a lower dose fo kratom without picking up all the shitty off-target and side-effects that pushing the dose has. BPE is very cheap if youre only using it for absorption i got a bag of 25g powder off of amazon for £25. You can get caps too i believe but they might be for people dosing higher, and if youre chugging the krat you want the powder to be in there with it IMO not hitting later, it needs to be present in the gut with the nutrient not just affecting you when you consume the nutrient. More often than not curcumin comes in caps with BioPerine in the dose youd need to increase your kratom effects, and curcumin itself can potentiate analgesics, and aside from also being a great anti inflammatory, id postulate that since its good for liver conditions itd alleviate some of the strain the kratom puts on it.

Also things that enhance nitrous oxide pathways / increase production of NO like agmatine can increase the effects of kratom without ramping up your tolerance as you can get the desired effects from a lower threshold.

If youre into being a guinea pig then BPC-157 lowers tolerance to drugs across the board, kratom included. But thats like, mostly only tested in rat models and we dont know what all the issues are with it yet. Theres no such thing as a free lunch in biology and bpc157 suspiciously looks like one. It seems that it attenuated rats response to morphine induced analgesia though so thats the possible offset. It had a similar effect with amphetamine but i only saw it as a positive, it lowered tolerance while reducing the head twitch response and other compulsive stimulant induced physical manifestations, which can sometimes infer less efficacy but seems to actually have just alleviated the shitty physicals whilst not affecting the cognitive enhancement.

 

[negrogesic]

Havent read all the replies so apologies if this has already been mentioned:

You asked about Kratom potentiators:

One way to potentiate is with piperine, aka black pepper extract. It actually enhances the effect of many sedatives and increases nutrient absorption in the gut. It makes the otherwise useless curcumin (turmeric extract) actually worth a damn for example. You dont need to take a dose of piperine that actually has much of a physiological effect to get the absorption benefits. People take it medicinally sometimes in the range of grams but it can be a double edged sword for this. All you need to potentiate curcumin according to science is 20mg. I take 50mg with my kratom for good measure. Theres a world of difference IME. Extremely handy for getting the benefits you need from a lower dose fo kratom without picking up all the shitty off-target and side-effects that pushing the dose has. BPE is very cheap if youre only using it for absorption i got a bag of 25g powder off of amazon for £25. You can get caps too i believe but they might be for people dosing higher, and if youre chugging the krat you want the powder to be in there with it IMO not hitting later, it needs to be present in the gut with the nutrient not just affecting you when you consume the nutrient. More often than not curcumin comes in caps with BioPerine in the dose youd need to increase your kratom effects, and curcumin itself can potentiate analgesics, and aside from also being a great anti inflammatory, id postulate that since its good for liver conditions itd alleviate some of the strain the kratom puts on it.

Also things that enhance nitrous oxide pathways / increase production of NO like agmatine can increase the effects of kratom without ramping up your tolerance as you can get the desired effects from a lower threshold.

If youre into being a guinea pig then BPC-157 lowers tolerance to drugs across the board, kratom included. But thats like, mostly only tested in rat models and we dont know what all the issues are with it yet. Theres no such thing as a free lunch in biology and bpc157 suspiciously looks like one. It seems that it attenuated rats response to morphine induced analgesia though so thats the possible offset. It had a similar effect with amphetamine but i only saw it as a positive, it lowered tolerance while reducing the head twitch response and other compulsive stimulant induced physical manifestations, which can sometimes infer less efficacy but seems to actually have just alleviated the shitty physicals whilst not affecting the cognitive enhancement.

The best kratom potentiator ive found is black seed oil. The active component, thymoquinone, seems to enhance the effect of kratom greatly.

 

[LabRat74]

The best kratom potentiator ive found is black seed oil. The active component, thymoquinone, seems to enhance the effect of kratom greatly.

will try that out thanks

 

[aspiringchemist]

The best kratom potentiator ive found is black seed oil. The active component, thymoquinone, seems to enhance the effect of kratom greatly.

You really feel this is the best potentiator? I have never tried it because I didn't believe it (from other posts) but I most definitely will take your word on the subject!

How do you find that it potentiates?

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

Kanna potentiates kratom quite well

 

[negrogesic]

I

You really feel this is the best potentiator? I have never tried it because I didn't believe it (from other posts) but I most definitely will take your word on the subject!

How do you find that it potentiates?

It increases the subjective effects and extends the duration. I remember the first time i tried it i got a bit too sedated from the combo, I was surprised. If you are in the US, the "healths harmony" brand capsules on amazon are good and cheap.

 

[Beener213]

So the cat at my local Puff N Stuff told me they sprayed it with something, possibly a synthetic opiate? It was way too on point to be just Kratom. He even winked at me, thats when I bought a good amount because I had that feeling the govt dogs would be knocking on OPMS’ door sooner or later.

Nice! Wish I could find a place like that near me

 

[AutoTripper]

Havent read all the replies so apologies if this has already been mentioned:

You asked about Kratom potentiators:

One way to potentiate is with piperine, aka black pepper extract. It actually enhances the effect of many sedatives and increases nutrient absorption in the gut. It makes the otherwise useless curcumin (turmeric extract) actually worth a damn for example. You dont need to take a dose of piperine that actually has much of a physiological effect to get the absorption benefits. People take it medicinally sometimes in the range of grams but it can be a double edged sword for this. All you need to potentiate curcumin according to science is 20mg. I take 50mg with my kratom for good measure. Theres a world of difference IME. Extremely handy for getting the benefits you need from a lower dose fo kratom without picking up all the shitty off-target and side-effects that pushing the dose has. BPE is very cheap if youre only using it for absorption i got a bag of 25g powder off of amazon for £25. You can get caps too i believe but they might be for people dosing higher, and if youre chugging the krat you want the powder to be in there with it IMO not hitting later, it needs to be present in the gut with the nutrient not just affecting you when you consume the nutrient. More often than not curcumin comes in caps with BioPerine in the dose youd need to increase your kratom effects, and curcumin itself can potentiate analgesics, and aside from also being a great anti inflammatory, id postulate that since its good for liver conditions itd alleviate some of the strain the kratom puts on it.

Also things that enhance nitrous oxide pathways / increase production of NO like agmatine can increase the effects of kratom without ramping up your tolerance as you can get the desired effects from a lower threshold.

If youre into being a guinea pig then BPC-157 lowers tolerance to drugs across the board, kratom included. But thats like, mostly only tested in rat models and we dont know what all the issues are with it yet. Theres no such thing as a free lunch in biology and bpc157 suspiciously looks like one. It seems that it attenuated rats response to morphine induced analgesia though so thats the possible offset. It had a similar effect with amphetamine but i only saw it as a positive, it lowered tolerance while reducing the head twitch response and other compulsive stimulant induced physical manifestations, which can sometimes infer less efficacy but seems to actually have just alleviated the shitty physicals whilst not affecting the cognitive enhancement.

I had a recent flirt with Kratom myself. It ended badly as I am extremely intolerant to virtually all herbs and remedies and I got myself addicted in just four weeks and had to stop cold turkey in a terrible health condition I did get some really nasty withdrawals to suffer.

But I did enjoy the effects of the kratom while I was taking it and I was particularly interested in this science of potentiators. Black pepper I have been using for a long time in combination with my cannabis edibles because the pipperine in the pepper slows down the degradation of the cannabinoids inside to receptors and makes for a much stronger and longer lasting effect from cannabis.

But I also have been combining my cannabis edibles with sunflower lecithin which I believe is I'm very useful potentiating as well.

Turmeric is also said to be a strong potential for kratom and of course as you have expressed is much more medicinally active and usable when combined with black pepper or the extract.

In all my years of experience however, with psychoactive substances, diet and supplements, there is one particular food which I find to be the most powerful potentiation of all psychoactive substances I have ever experienced literally doubling the effect of my cannabis or more.

Raw organic garlic. Must be crushed first and left or 10-minutes but the Allicin to form. Honest to God I have always noticed a significantly stronger effect from any psychoactive substance if I have consumed raw garlic especially if it is on an empty stomach away from food.

3 crushed cloves swallowed raw, at least doubles the intensity of the effects I get from my daily cannabis edibles and vaporization.

I first noticed this correlation very strongly years ago with ketamine use if I had consumed war garlic with my dinner then I would be in a k hole on a tiny line every time and really floored by it.

I also definitely noticed potentiation of the kratom with the raw garlic. I was particularly enjoying the Kratom/ cannabis edible combination, I was taking them together with the raw garlic, black pepper and lecitihin.

I also take oil or oregano daily, I believe this mate also have a general potentiating action.

 

[negrogesic]

3 crushed cloves swallowed raw, at least doubles the intensity of the effects I get from my daily cannabis edibles and vaporization.

And keeps away vampires

 

[LabRat74]

I had a recent flirt with Kratom myself. It ended badly as I am extremely intolerant to virtually all herbs and remedies and I got myself addicted in just four weeks and had to stop cold turkey in a terrible health condition I did get some really nasty withdrawals to suffer.

But I did enjoy the effects of the Classroom while I was taking it and I was particularly interested in this science of potentiators. Black pepper I have been using for a long time in combination with my cannabis edibles because the pipperine in the pepper slows down the degradation of the cannabinoids inside to receptors and makes for a much stronger and longer lasting effect from cannabis.

But I also have been combining my cannabis edibles with sunflower lecithin which I believe is I'm very useful potentiating as well.

Turmeric is also said to be a strong potential for kratom and of course as you have expressed is much more medicinally active and usable when combined with black pepper or the extract.

In all my years of experience however, with psychoactive substances, diet and supplements, there is one particular food which I find to be the most powerful potentiation of all psychoactive substances I have ever experienced literally doubling the effect of my cannabis or more.

Raw organic garlic. Must be crushed first and left or 10-minutes but the Allicin to form. Honest to God I have always noticed a significantly stronger effect from any psychoactive substance if I have consumed raw garlic especially if it is on an empty stomach away from food.

3 crushed cloves swallowed raw, at least doubles the intensity of the effects I get from my daily cannabis edibles and vaporization.

I first noticed this correlation very strongly years ago with ketamine use if I had consumed war garlic with my dinner then I would be in a k hole on a tiny line every time and really floored by it.

I also definitely noticed potentiation of the kratom with the raw garlic. I was particularly enjoying the Kratom/ cannabis edible combination, I was taking them together with the raw garlic, black pepper and lecitihin.

I also take oil or oregano daily, I believe this mate also have a general potentiating action.

interesting

do you believe this is enzymes at play, or the fact that garlic is good for bloodflow? (its defs a vasodilator unsure of its effect on NO pathways or anything like that), or something to do with the gut processing the substance in tandem? i believe aside from the enzyme inhibition the piperine has an active effect in the gut that aids absorption of nutrients themselves when processed together [citation needed].

 

[AutoTripper]

interesting

do you believe this is enzymes at play, or the fact that garlic is good for bloodflow? (its defs a vasodilator unsure of its effect on NO pathways or anything like that), or something to do with the gut processing the substance in tandem? i believe aside from the enzyme inhibition the piperine has an active effect in the gut that aids absorption of nutrients themselves when processed together [citation needed].

I have wonderered exactly this years ago-is it primarily its blood thinninf properties? I expecr partly, but I am convonced there is more at play. Garlic is actually a drug itself. It has powerful and underestimated effects on the brain and nervous system.

It has a powerful antidepressant action. Also airpiots are officially not to consume garlic as it slows down reaction time.

I haven't given it too much thought though, I just know it works a treat. I have been eating garlic raw daily for many years as a vital management aid for severe allergy and infection based respiratory symptoms. But always with meals.

A recent endsocopy revealed helicobacter plyori stomach infection and severe gastritis and inflammation. I cant take any prescribed medicines I'm extremely intolerant to everything, including antibiotics and all excipients in all medicines.

So I started taking extra raw garlic, on empty stomach away from food. This is when I really noticed the unquestionable potentiation. I wasn't even thinking about it, just carrying on as normal, I would use my cannabis and be shocked at the strength of the effects.

Whether edibles or vapor, it was like my tolerance was cut in half, every time. I have been used to the standard level and pattern of potentiation I have been receiving from the garlic using normally with meals so switching my usage up like this really made this stand out much more clearly to me.

I absolutely swear on this yet I haven't seen another soul mention it ever which really baffles me because I've honestly not experienced more powerful potentiation.

 

[aspiringchemist]

Speaking of gastritis... have any long time kratom users experienced a somewhat paradoxical effect of ingestion kratom powder causing gastrointestinal problems seemingly suddenly, when it did not before?

Specifically gastritis and severe diarrhea. I speculate that I have left or descending colitis (IBD). Lately when I've eaten kratom it's like I feel it drop into my descending colon and then, I swear, it all comes out within an hour. I also take vyvanse (prescribed) and know that could be at play.

Just think it's odd that after years of daily use I know am developing some kind of acute GI issue upon dosing; I have had IBD-esque symptoms for about 6 years now and have undergone lots of medical testing so this isnt like out of the blue. It is just odd to me that I'm feeling again like I was at my most sick times (before kratom; kratom became my solution to these Sx).

It feels raw, gnawing, almost like empty hunger pains that are always in the left upper quadrant and into the lower. I know no one can Dx me here! Just curious if other long time kratom users experienced this sudden change in effect?

Hell, the mu agonist action isn't even stopping me up. I should add that all batches of kratom are not new and have been used by me previously, so I don't suspect adulteration to be the issue.

I tried making tea again to remove the plant matter from the equation because I often see this as a suggestion. Idk if I didn't do it right or what but 60 minutes after ingesting tea made from 30g red bali + sumatra (drank whole batch in one go) I was rather stimulated and in an increasing state opioid withdrawal; it did not get me well. I was pacing around, sweating, with the worst RLS; hitting my legs with things. I then TW another 10g and was ok. I followed the rather simple recipe provided by Xorkoth and many others.

Kratom train is getting old and a little odd I have to say. It's like I dont feel good whether I take it or not, it's just different kinds of not feeling good.