Bupe Kratom works on subs ?

[Subdeep]

Im on 4mg suboxone in the morning and 4mg at night. Will taking katrom recreatinally work? Will I be able to feel or will the bupe block it? Will it give me precipiated withdrawal?

If someone on subs has tried kratom please me know your experience, thanks in advance!

 

[izo]

I heard here on bl that taking Kratom on top of subutex can be at least felt. I don’t know however if such a low potency opioid can be used recreationally with such a strong one as subutex.

 

[Treyderaid]

I used to do this sometimes when I was in undergrad at UNC-Asheville. I always felt an extra something when I took Kratom on top of my subs. I assume that Kratom must have affinity for some of the opioid receptors that the buprenorphine leaves unblocked. This is all just my personal experience By the way. Be safe,
-Trey

 

[izo]

I guess you didn’t reach receptor occupancy saturation with buprenorphine which I think is deadly I think.

 

[Treyderaid]

The most common active alkaloid in kratom is Mitragynine, it's a partial agonist of the μ-opioid receptors and a competitive antagonist of the δ-opioid receptors and also have some affinity as an antagonist for the k-opioid receptors.
Buprenorphine is a partial Agonist with very high affinity for the μ-opioid receptors and a high affinity antagonist for the δ-opioid receptors and k-opioid receptors.
That being said, in my younger days I would sometimes ignore my better instincts and mix and match substances without much care. With this particular combination, for me personally, I always felt like the Kratom doses noticeably potentiated my buprenorphine. (By the way I would usually take 8 mg of Buprenorphine with 10-20 10x Kratom capsules) This is a pretty steep dose of either chemical for most people and I in no way condone or advise my youthful indiscretions. And to answer the end of the original poster's question, No, in my experience, mitragyna speciosa never sent me into any sort of precipitated withdrawal if I took it before my suboxone. Kratom and Buprenorphine always seemed to compliment one another as opposed to a traditional opiate mixed Buprenorphine.
-Note: These are all my personal recollections and I don't ever advise anyone to abuse drugs or to use drugs unless absolutely necessary. Some of us need drugs to get by and if anybody can avoid becoming like me, then I certainly advise that they do so because this is a rough life.

 

[izo]

The most active alkaloid in kratom is Mitragynine,

No, the most active alkaloids are 7hydroxy-mitragynine and mitragynine pseudoindoxyl. Plain mitragynine doesn’t add much to Kratoms action.

 

[izo]

Q: when you take oxycodone and kratom together do they cancel each other out?

Should not be a problem, if I were you id always add a little oxy to some Kratom, but that because I especially like the phenatrene type opioids (the ones derived from morphine). They are my favorite class of opioids, nodding is so great on them.

 

[Xorkoth]

Im on 4mg suboxone in the morning and 4mg at night. Will taking katrom recreatinally work? Will I be able to feel or will the bupe block it? Will it give me precipiated withdrawal?

If someone on subs has tried kratom please me know your experience, thanks in advance!

It is likely that the non-opioid portion of the kratom effects would still be felt, though it is subtle at best, when on bupe. It will not cause PWD though, bupe causes PWD when you're addicted to something else and take it. If you take something on top of bupe, it can't cause PWD, it will just not work at all, or only work a tiny bit.

And actually, if you're addicted to kratom and take bupe, it also won't cause PWD like it does with other opioids. This is, I believe, because kratom and bupe are both partial agonists. So the bupe indeed kicks the kratom alkaloids out of the receptors, but since bupe and kratom are both partial agonists, it will fully substitute for the kratom and you won't get sick (in fact I prefer bupe's high to kratom's)

 

[Xorkoth]

Q: when you take oxycodone and kratom together do they cancel each other out?

No, not at all. You'll feel them both.

 

[Treyderaid]

No, the most active alkaloids are 7hydroxy-mitragynine and mitragynine pseudoindoxyl. Plain mitragynine doesn’t add much to Kratoms action.

Whoops, I changed it to "most common active alkaloid". My bad on that man I didn't catch my little error there when I reviewed my post before I sent it, I never mean to mislead anyone. Thanks for catching that for me.

 

[Pickledlemons]

Yes and no. If you take your subs in the morning and your kratom in the evening you will get some effect. Kratom doesn't just affect opioid receptors, so more of the stimulating effect comes out when you're on bupe.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I have a unique input on this one because no one has ever really addressed me saying this--as it may go against what the common public thinks regarding the matter.

I have in the past abused suboxone and kratom together. I've never experienced precipitated withdrawal or ANY negative interactions. Some people will instantly suffer and administering suboxone too soon after kratom will send them into a dimension of pain lol. Maybe my brain/body is odd but I do experience slight effects of kratom even on suboxone after a couple of days (but noticeably less so from the kratom).

I don't think anyone should risk knowing if they are immune to PWD from kratom and administering suboxone literally 30 seconds later. I've taken the two interchangeably back and forth and experience effects of both without any precipitated withdrawal symptoms whatsoever. However, for example if I took oxycodone or heroin (which heroin is not something I enjoy or have had habits with) and then taken the suboxone strip/pill? I would become incredibly uncomfortable and sleep for 24 hours if not longer without being able to eat, or have any energy. This would entail that I do experience PWD on things not kratom regarding suboxone use without waiting the proper allocated amount of time---the time difference one should wait to administer subs after using opiates.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I would assume if you've been on bupe for an appreciable amount of time, due to it's really long half life, it would probably block any mu receptor activity from kratom.

Unless kratom has a stronger affinity than even bupe for the receptor, which I highly doubt.

Kratom has more than just opioid actions though too, so you will still feel those ontop of the bupe. However it's more like synergy rather than actually feeling an "opioid".

I could never get opioid effects from any kind of kratom, even with low tolerance & any time I've tried the combo is was pretty lackluster. This was my experience any way, but usually when I tried kratom it was because I was having a heroin or full agonist craving, which you should definitely never expect from it if you dabble with bupe or more potent full agonists.

You may have empty receptors not attached by bupe that it can attach to, but it would just be like taking an extra miniscule amount extra of bupe (if that) in terms of strength or effects, since your body is already used to partial agonist as it is.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Mitragynine is just like bupe only a partial agonist of mu, and it doesnt cause precipitated wd so its affinity must be quite low (bupe displaces most opioids which is why the precipitation happens).

Kratom hits many receptors, not just opioid ones, even mitragynine itself is quite promiscuous so it will definitely have effects on top of bupe but no way these would be mu mediated at least in people saturated with it.

Kratom also contains around fourty active alkaloids, most probably in negligible amounts but not all. Even a NMDA antagonist is present, unfortunately not as much of it as I would wish but such activity will be effective with, even potentiate bupe.

I neither get opioid effects from K even without other opioids present yet take it anyways, it feels interesting but weak, Im talking about10g for threshold effects and then of a mixed, soft stimulation much more relaxed than caffeine.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Mitragynine is just like bupe only a partial agonist of mu, and it doesnt cause precipitated wd so its affinity must be quite low (bupe displaces most opioids which is why the precipitation happens).

Kratom hits many receptors, not just opioid ones, even mitragynine itself is quite promiscuous so it will definitely have effects on top of bupe but no way these would be mu mediated at least in people saturated with it.

Kratom also contains around fourty active alkaloids, most probably in negligible amounts but not all. Even a NMDA antagonist is present, unfortunately not as much of it as I would wish but such activity will be effective with, even potentiate bupe.

I neither get opioid effects from K even without other opioids present yet take it anyways, it feels interesting but weak, Im talking about10g for threshold effects and then of a mixed, soft stimulation much more relaxed than caffeine.

This has been my experience too.

And once I get up into those dosages, all that plant powder can really do a number on my digestive track.

 

[plumbus-nine]

This has been my experience too.

And once I get up into those dosages, all that plant powder can really do a number on my digestive track.

I get a weird plateau effect from kratom where it is maxed out and more causes just comparatively little anti-adenosine effects like a cup of coffee on top would as well. This happens somewhere around 10-20g, possibly dependent on the amount of intake durimg the past days. Never got withdrawal from kratom, rather the opposite, ut substitutes flawlessly for 600+mg of pregabalin since when I stopped it took all lingering symptoms of psychosis (hearing whispers) which persisted since I overdid it on dissociatives. Strangely I can do dissos besides DXM (which causes the whisper to raise into full voices, something about D-enantiomeres of opioids is odd as usual racemic morphine as well caused intensified whispers but much less pronounced) again and dont relapse. Pharmacology is a weirs science.

 

[Xorkoth]

I have in the past abused suboxone and kratom together. I've never experienced precipitated withdrawal or ANY negative interactions. Some people will instantly suffer and administering suboxone too soon after kratom will send them into a dimension of pain lol. Maybe my brain/body is odd but I do experience slight effects of kratom even on suboxone after a couple of days (but noticeably less so from the kratom).

I have never had PWD from sub when on kratom either. I created a poll thread a while ago asking people if they had, and of all respondents, only one said they had experienced PWD, and that person said they felt sweaty and anxious for 20-30 minutes and then fine, which is not PWD. It makes sense though, kratom is a partial agonist and so is buprenorphine. Bupe fully substitutes for kratom, in fact it is a stronger opioid. So when the mitragynine/etc gets knocked out of the receptor, it doesn't cause any issues, since bupe is stronger. The reason PWD happens is because if a full agonist gets knocked out, bupe will not substitute for it.

Also, kratom has various effects aside from the mu receptor agonism, so it stands to reason it would do a little something on bupe. I also find it does a tiny bit, but it's definitely way reduced and I don't think it's really the opiate action you're feeling. In fact, when I am coming off of suboxone, I start to withdraw some, and I try to use kratom to help and it doesn't. At least not until it's been about 2 full days, then the bupe is out of my system enough to really feel kratom again.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I have never had PWD from sub when on kratom either. I created a poll thread a while ago asking people if they had, and of all respondents, only one said they had experienced PWD, and that person said they felt sweaty and anxious for 20-30 minutes and then fine, which is not PWD. It makes sense though, kratom is a partial agonist and so is buprenorphine. Bupe fully substitutes for kratom, in fact it is a stronger opioid. So when the mitragynine/etc gets knocked out of the receptor, it doesn't cause any issues, since bupe is stronger. The reason PWD happens is because if a full agonist gets knocked out, bupe will not substitute for it.

Also, kratom has various effects aside from the mu receptor agonism, so it stands to reason it would do a little something on bupe. I also find it does a tiny bit, but it's definitely way reduced and I don't think it's really the opiate action you're feeling. In fact, when I am coming off of suboxone, I start to withdraw some, and I try to use kratom to help and it doesn't. At least not until it's been about 2 full days, then the bupe is out of my system enough to really feel kratom again.

Ah okay that's a good poll to make. Its hard stating something as a "fact" when you don't want to be the one to cause someone to experience full-blown PWD LOL. I personally do not know what that feels like... but I trust junkies when they say they absolutely hate something. Considering they usually hate themselves.

 

[Izbop666]

I heard here on bl that taking Kratom on top of subutex can be at least felt. I don’t know however if such a low potency opioid can be used recreationally with such a strong one as subutex.

I've read somewhere on reddit that you can feel kratom while on suboxone. This is because kratom isn't your normal opiod, it was a bunch of alkaloids that work on different receptors. So you may not get the opiod buzz but you may feel mood boost, maybe some euphoria. I haven't done it myself and I can't find anything about it (I also can't find the post anymore..) so someone has to try it and tell us how they feel.

 

[Borax]

Should not be a problem, if I were you id always add a little oxy to some Kratom, but that because I especially like the phenatrene type opioids (the ones derived from morphine). They are my favorite class of opioids, nodding is so great on them.

oxys actually derived from thebaine