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Opioids Kratom Megathread V.6

Greetings Newt, you are now in the Kratom Megathread, conveniently found with the search engine.

I've never tried kratom, but if there was a feasible dose that could match 8mgs hydromorphone every four hours, it probably wouldn't be legal. But I'll leave it to the experts here.
 
I agree with scrof. Kratom is very different from Rx opioids, so I don't think we can give you mg to mg conversion. You'll probably experience some WD even with an equianalgesic dose
 
Oh yeah, I see the reference to EU.... and I completely missed out on the "photographic evidence." Well, in any case...hopefully this person will not have to go through the withdrawal symptoms from extremely high dose fentanyl.

Also, I wanted to comment on one thing. And it's coming from personal experience. And very recently too. I am prescribed 8 mg dilaudid. 4 per day. Sometimes I have a rough month, and run myself short. This month is ran myself 6 days short. And I was successfully able to use kratom to get through it. It doesn't completely take the cringe away....but does take away about 80% of the suffering. For me anyway. I take 8 to 10 grams of maeng da at a time, every 6 hours or so, as well as a lot of high quality cannabis. I will take kratom and cannabis over suboxone, any day of the week. But obviously this will vary depending on the individual. Just wanted to say that kratom does help, although still no fun coming off dilaudid though. OK. Best wishes to all.
Aloha
 
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Max Flight said:
Oh yeah, I see the reference to EU.... and I completely missed out on the "photographic evidence." Well, in any case...hopefully this person will not have to go through the withdrawal symptoms from extremely high dose fentanyl.

Also, I wanted to comment on one thing. And it's coming from personal experience. And very recently too. I am prescribed 8 mg dilaudid. 4 per day. Sometimes I have a rough month, and run myself short. This month is ran myself 6 days short. And I was successfully able to use kratom to get through it. It doesn't completely take the cringe away....but does take away about 80% of the suffering. For me anyway. I take 8 to 10 grams of meng da at a time, every 6 hours or so. I will take kratom over suboxone, any day of the week. But obviously this will vary depending on the individual. Just wanted to say that kratom does help, although still no fun coming off dilaudid though. OK. Best wishes to all.
Aloha
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Yeah...it sounds like your situation is somewhat similar to the other poster regarding the dilaudid and kratom..

Your experience kind of echos what I was was saying which was that while the kratom may help alleviate some of the withdrawl symptoms that would manifest themselves if you suddenly stopped taking rhe dilaudid, it wouldn't have much of an effect as a replacement for the hydromorphone as an analgesic.
 
Yes. You're correct backfromthebrink. It's no replacement. Not for dilaudid. Still a difficult time to bear.

However, I see that newt is asking about using kratom to potentially taper back from the regimen he's currently on. And although I am not in the medical field in any way, I am able to speak from personal experience, to this subject. I think that you could use kratom to taper/quit. Although, it's a bit tricky. Still not going to be easy, and the tricky part will be not trading up dependancy. From dilaudid to kratom. But alas, I believe that it is possible. Here's what I would recommend from personal experience.

First, I would start to cut back on my dilaudid intake. Over the period of a month, maybe 6 weeks, try to gradually taper your dilaudid intake. Not easy, particularly if you suffer from pain. Once I had my dilaudid intake down to maybe 16mg per day, enters the kratom (as well as top grade cannabis in my case). I would start with taking the now tapered down morning dose of dilaudid. And then when feeling the need for my mid day dose, I'd take about 8-10 grams of maeng da. Do it again in the late afternoon. Then at bedtime, take the dilaudid. After a few days of this, I would over the next 10 days or so, gradually try to not take any dilaudid, and use the kratom when feeling you are needing the dilaudid. Which you will be feeling. In this way, it would not be as drastically uncomfortable as going cold turkey from the dilaudid, and trying to pick up the slack with kratom. Kratom does work for me, and I actually feel "good/talkative" after a good dose, for the 1st couple hours, then it is just kinda keeping me from hitting the wall. The trick is not to start to become dependant on the kratom. Because after about 2 or 3 weeks of heavy use, you will start to get the chills and not feeling right, unless you take kratom. Not nearly as bad as opioid withdrawal, but uncomfortable nonetheless.

So, I think that it's possible. Albeit, a bit tricky... and it's going to be a bit different for each person. You're going to experience some discomfort quiting dilaudid, no matter what the case is, I think. A very difficult transition. Particularly if you actually suffer chronic pain. That spikes to almost unbearable levels for me. And I will ingest heavy amounts of cannabis edibles, just to get some sleep. It's something that you would have to try to know if it will work for you. Also, I recommend the capsules, because there aren't many things as gnarly tasting as kratom. I hope that this helps you out, and explains a bit of what the potential kratom might have for you.
 
You know, I went to get a link to the Bluelight dictionary from BDD, but it doesn't have Cold Turkey listed.

"Cold Turkey" could be confusing anyway to ESL members.
 
Interesting (ish) fact on the origins of the phrase "cold turkey"...

While people often incorrectly assume that it originates feofrom m the goose pimples that appear on a person's skin while going through withdrawl and the flesh taking in the appearance of a turkey skin...

It actually originally means, something that requires no preparation or effort...as in making a meal from cold turkey. If someone speaks "cold turkey" then they are a no nonsense speaker.. and going cold turkey meant going in no nonsense....sttaight in at the deep end

Later the phrase was adopted to describe sudden opioid withdrawl.... and then abrupt creation of anything...

Well OK...... wasn't that interesting I admit:)
 
No that is interesting. Cause when I hear "cold turkey" I think sandwiches. And you better just shred it and throw it in a skillet, cause the only way to save it otherwise is fucking mayo. Dry as dust turkey needs to crisp in some bacon fat before it becomes a sandwich. At which point it's not cold anymore.

Therefore "Cold Turkey" = mayonnaise: pale, cold, quivering, smelling of stale eggs and making everything worse. But if you're starving, it'll take more than just saliva to choke that turkey down.

OK, I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore.
 
Scrof, I always thought of you more as a "room temperature bologna" kind of guy. Or maybe it was luke warm spam? Hmmm...

Backfromthebrink, I enjoyed the history lesson, thank you.
 
Sir, if I had gloves they'd be in dandy-slapping position. I cook from-scratch dinners six nights a week. With heat. And all the food groups. No microwaves.

And when those dinner eaters are away, I just forget to eat, and go for stale pop-tarts and, if tweaking, lots of fermented dairy products for some reason. And popsicles.

I grew up on frozen burritos, textured vegetable protein-flavored, with "beans". Come in a twelve-pack at the dollar store. Sure, they're almost passable in a toaster oven if you're the type of person who will wait twenty minutes for a microwavable frozen processed burrito. But their true perfection is in the contrasts: the blisters on your lips as a corner unexpectedly spurts thousand-degree "cheese product" followed by the icy crunch of the center. A marvel of engineering.
 
Newts1 said:
Hello... I have just joined and would appreciate any info/advise concerning the dosing levels of Kratom. I am still taking my meds... but am fed up with having to take them... 8 mgs of dilaudid every four hours orally. What dose of Kratom should I be taking? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated... I realize everyone's motabolism is different so I have to adjust it accordingly... i just need a few tips! Thanks!!!
Click to expand...

I just started using kratom, after subs. I found a surprisingly little amount makes me feel better. 4 grams takes the place of 5mg bupe. I was pretty shocked. I was preparing to eat ounces at a time. So yeah, start small, you may be surprised.
 
Pickledlemons said:
I just started using kratom, after subs. I found a surprisingly little amount makes me feel better. 4 grams takes the place of 5mg bupe. I was pretty shocked. I was preparing to eat ounces at a time. So yeah, start small, you may be surprised.
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This is true. I notice now that I forgot to mention earlier, that I usually go with 8-10 grams...when first starting with the kratom. And gradually taper that too, down to 3-4 grams at a time. But everyone is a bit different, so you will just have to give it a try, and see what works for you. It's definitely a great help for me.

And I have noticed that it's been mentioned in the mainstream media lately....although in a negative light. Saying that the FDA hasn't approved it, blah, blah, blah. Which is really just more support for its actual benefits in my opinion. The last thing big pharma wants, is an inexpensive, legal, natural medicine which really works. Probably losing a fortune to kratom. I know that I personally would rather go to kratom, than suboxone or methadone.
 
Hey, even I'd heard of kratom before joining Bluelight. The FDA did in fact ban or near-ban it for a couple months like three, four years ago.

And an inexpensive, legal natural medicine, like tobacco, was never processed into corporate oblivion before . . . . Corporate involvement might actually save kratom from eventual regulation as a drug. If Bigelow or Twinings start making kratom tea bags, the FDA and DEA might not be as quick to call mitragynine a narcotic (as they eventually will).
 
Well shoots Scrofula... I am not so sure about corporate involvement, being able to save kratom.? Particularly if big pharma is involved. That would just be a way for them to control it completely, and install regulations that allow them to profit....from a plant that literally grows wild in many places. I'm more inclined to just grow my own hedge of the stuff. Which many people are doing here in the Aloha state. I find myself goin along with the idea that it's utterly ridiculous to wage war on shrubs, plants, vines, and fungi. Because people might enjoy them, or find them otherwise useful in some way.

I also missed class the day that the medicinal benefits of tobacco were being espoused, and am completely in the dark as to it's benefits as an inexpensive and all natural medicine.?

I do remember that they had kratom scheduled to be classified as a schedule 1 narcotic. But an outpouring of public sentiment against that ridiculous maneuver, temporarily put a stop to it happening. Although I believe that you are correct that they will probably move to make it illegal at some point, as it continues to gain popularity as a viable option to things like suboxone and methadone.
 
Well.. I think I am fairly safe. Recreational marijuana will be legal in Canada this year. I dont see the liberal government going and banning a plant with the same safety profile.
 
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Pickledlemons said:
Well.. I think I am fairly safe. Recreational marijuana will be legal in Canada this year. I dont see the liberal government going and banning a plant with the same safety profile.
Click to expand...

I was being a smartass with Max Flight about that view. Fact is, kratom has a clear effect on your opioid receptors, meaning abuse potential. It could make kids feel good and heavy-lidded, thus interfering with the Protestant Work Ethic. We have an entire paramilitary force in the US dedicated to preventing that egregious sin.

There's no escape from pearl-clutching moralists, and no escape from the tax man and corporate interests. Just like no one grows legal tobacco in their backyards, you may find that even if it's not controlled as mitragynine, it's not something you can just stick in the ground where ever you want.

For now, I'd say a safer investment than growing a tropical shrub in Canada is extracting and stockpiling mitragynine by the barrel for the coming opioid wars.
 
lol
In general, I guess that what I am trying to say is that I don't really think that anything should be done with kratom...in the legal sense. It should remain as it is....a harmless shrub . Oleander, is much more dangerous to the public, but nobody is rushing to ban it.

However, it appears that we both realize kratom's benefits will likely be the cause of its demise. From a legal, and availability standpoint. I think that is a shame. Although, it is possible to effect change. As was have seen in keeping it from being made illegal already. It takes an idea, and it takes unity....and is possible.

The others things that have been mentioned Scrofula, are relative to the reality of your situation. Geographic location has a lot to do with this. Where I live, people have hedges of kratom. Some just a bush or two. Many don't grow kratom at all. Your reality is for the most part, what you make it to be. People here grow their own tobacco as well. (Although I hear it's tricky to bring to fruition) They sell starter plants at the garden store. And so It's fairly obvious that our realities, differ from one another to a large extent.

It was not my intention to rally Canadians, to grow kratom, why...even the thought of that would be a silly notion. I would no more expext Canada to produce kratom, than I would expect them to produce coffee....or I guess tobacco. Which I am still a bit confused as to why tobacco has been mentioned in the first place. Although, it was mentioned....so I chose to address that too. I hope it have clarified my point. I'm a little bit baked on some homemade organic shatter, hope I am making sense.

Shoots
 
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