Opioids Kratom Mega Thread v. 5

[Mycophile]

So your recommendation would be red strains?

Yeah probably, or extracts if you aren't concerned that they are more addictive and more likely to make plain leaf useless...which I personally would be as I like plain leaf and don't want worsened WD, cause the WD from plain leaf is almost non-existent, but extracts are worse.

Being someone who has used heroin and strong opiates unlike me, you know what you are getting into and can make a decision of your own, but if you haven't used extracts before, I would say they are probably close to equal to low to moderate doses of Oxy or Vicodoin in terms of mental and physical effect with probably slightly lower WD symptoms but I think they don't cause respiratory depression, as I twice got REALLY drunk on them with no issues and I would NOT do that on Oxy/Vic....


But as other posters have pointed out, strains are kind of a crap shoot and I agree vendors are more important, and that personal physiology probably plays a larger role in how you respond.

You probably know kratom has 29 alkaloids which is why it does so many more things than normal opiates like Oxy.

It has adrenergic effects and is related to coffee in some ways and I just read it has some of the same alkaloids as Green Tea and chocolate which makes PERFECT sense that it would keep me up...PLUS I consume more coffee than ANYONE EVER should LOL...I REALLY wish I could quit the coffee...

Then it has the alkaloids that act on mu-opioid receptors and all that, for pain, sedation, relaxation, and serotonergic compounds as well as some action on dopamine which must be why it helps my depression and anxiety.

Plus SO many others.

I mean it's like a wonder drug, probably even more so than weed IMO.

So who knows really which strains have more or less of things.

I personally will be kept up by any and all strains OTHER than extracts, so I would experiment with whatever you are comfortable with (I suggest avoiding extracts other than maybe like one day a month or something, just occassional experimentation so as not to raise tolerance...)

If you are like me, you won't be able to sleep on it, so it might not be what you are looking for, or maybe you'll pass right out on it like other users...

 

[ZombiWurm]

I'm lactose intolerant to but I drink milk, eat cheese and ice cream all the time. I just deal with the pain and farts because it's worth it.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

I'm lactose intolerant to but I drink milk, eat cheese and ice cream all the time. I just deal with the pain and farts because it's worth it.

Welcome to Bluelight,
just a quick reminder, Bluelight is about harm reduction and drug use and this thread is about kratom....

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Yeah probably, or extracts if you aren't concerned that they are more addictive and more likely to make plain leaf useless...which I personally would be as I like plain leaf and don't want worsened WD, cause the WD from plain leaf is almost non-existent, but extracts are worse.

Being someone who has used heroin and strong opiates unlike me, you know what you are getting into and can make a decision of your own, but if you haven't used extracts before, I would say they are probably close to equal to low to moderate doses of Oxy or Vicodoin in terms of mental and physical effect with probably slightly lower WD symptoms but I think they don't cause respiratory depression, as I twice got REALLY drunk on them with no issues and I would NOT do that on Oxy/Vic....


But as other posters have pointed out, strains are kind of a crap shoot and I agree vendors are more important, and that personal physiology probably plays a larger role in how you respond.

You probably know kratom has 29 alkaloids which is why it does so many more things than normal opiates like Oxy.

It has adrenergic effects and is related to coffee in some ways and I just read it has some of the same alkaloids as Green Tea and chocolate which makes PERFECT sense that it would keep me up...PLUS I consume more coffee than ANYONE EVER should LOL...I REALLY wish I could quit the coffee...

Then it has the alkaloids that act on mu-opioid receptors and all that, for pain, sedation, relaxation, and serotonergic compounds as well as some action on dopamine which must be why it helps my depression and anxiety.

Plus SO many others.

I mean it's like a wonder drug, probably even more so than weed IMO.

So who knows really which strains have more or less of things.

I personally will be kept up by any and all strains OTHER than extracts, so I would experiment with whatever you are comfortable with (I suggest avoiding extracts other than maybe like one day a month or something, just occassional experimentation so as not to raise tolerance...)

If you are like me, you won't be able to sleep on it, so it might not be what you are looking for, or maybe you'll pass right out on it like other users...

Yeah I'm not concerned about the addictive potential of kratom at all...to me it's about as addictive as the coffee I drink every morning. I've done it for months at a time and have never gotten any real noticeable WD symptoms from it.

I agree that it's something of a "wonder drug"...I had a quarter pound of Maeng Da from a vendor I really like (although it's pricier than other options) over the summer and that stuff was insane. It gave me unlimited energy combined with making physical movement feel really good, in the manner of a true opiate. My job is fairly physically demanding so that was an awesome feature I thought. Loved that stuff!

 

[Scourge Of Africa]

I can't figure out how K can be both sedating AND energizing at the same freakin' time but it is. I feel like I could both sleep OR run (or F) for hours on K. Hmmmm??????

 

[Scourge Of Africa]

What do kratom vets consider a high dose? I regularly use 15+grams total per day of straight leaf powder. I do know most powders never contain, more than 1.5% alkaloids.

 

[elstongunn39]

anyone have thoughts on that study that showed a possible mechanism for mitragynine cardiotoxicity? has kratom raised anyone's blood pressure here, or caused any heart problems? it's such a wonder rug for me but I don't want to cause heart problems

 

[Mycophile]

anyone have thoughts on that study that showed a possible mechanism for mitragynine cardiotoxicity? has kratom raised anyone's blood pressure here, or caused any heart problems? it's such a wonder rug for me but I don't want to cause heart problems

That article mainly said it could worsen people's conditions who ALREADY had long QT syndrome, and also, posters said it sounded to them like they were talking about isolated mitragynine and not the entire plant.

I was concerned at the time, but not much anymore.

I don't plan on taking it for the rest of my life either, but I do love it.

 

[burn out]

What do kratom vets consider a high dose? I regularly use 15-20 grams of straight leaf powder. I do know most powders never contain, more than 1.5% alkaloids.

I consider that a very high dosage. For me, 7-10 grams is a high dosage. I normally use 2-5 grams at a time.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

anyone have thoughts on that study that showed a possible mechanism for mitragynine cardiotoxicity? has kratom raised anyone's blood pressure here, or caused any heart problems? it's such a wonder rug for me but I don't want to cause heart problems

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25535742

Abstract
INTRODUCTION:

Mitragynine is a major bioactive compound of Kratom, which is derived from the leave extracts of Mitragyna speciosa Korth or Mitragyna speciosa (M. speciosa), a medicinal plant from South East Asia used legally in many countries as stimulant with opioid-like effects for the treatment of chronic pain and opioid-withdrawal symptoms. Fatal incidents with Mitragynine have been associated with cardiac arrest. In this study, we determined the cardiotoxicity of Mitragynine and other chemical constituents isolated using human induced pluripotent stem cell-derived cardiomyocytes (hiPSC-CMs).
METHODS AND RESULTS:

The rapid delayed rectifier potassium current (IKr), L-type Ca2+ current (ICa,L) and action potential duration (APD) were measured by whole cell patch-clamp. The expression of KCNH2 and cytotoxicity was determined by real-time PCR and Caspase activity measurements. After significant IKr suppression by Mitragynine (10 µM) was confirmed in hERG-HEK cells, we systematically examined the effects of Mitragynine and other chemical constituents in hiPSC-CMs. Mitragynine, Paynantheine, Speciogynine and Speciociliatine, dosage-dependently (0.1∼100 µM) suppressed IKr in hiPSC-CMs by 67%∼84% with IC50 ranged from 0.91 to 2.47 µM. Moreover, Mitragynine (10 µM) significantly prolonged APD at 50 and 90% repolarization (APD50 and APD90) (439.0±11.6 vs. 585.2±45.5 ms and 536.0±22.6 vs. 705.9±46.1 ms, respectively) and induced arrhythmia, without altering the L-type Ca2+ current. Neither the expression, and intracellular distribution of KCNH2/Kv11.1, nor the Caspase 3 activity were significantly affected by Mitragynine.
CONCLUSIONS:

Our study indicates that Mitragynine and its analogues may potentiate Torsade de Pointes through inhibition of IKr in human cardiomyocytes.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I consider that a very high dosage. For me, 7-10 grams is a high dosage. I normally use 2-5 grams at a time.

agreed. 20 g felt like very strong heroin. except more nausea

7-10 for recreational doses. 2 or 3 g for energy/motivation


I know tea kills the potency but one time I made tea with about 50 g. I drank the first extracts all at once and It was like a very clean dilaudid + amphetamine high with zero nausea that hit within ten minutes.

...there is a reason this shit is being made illegal. If you know how to get off on it its as good as hard drugs...unless you have a high tolerence from being a regular user of strong opiate drugs

 

[Mycophile]

What do kratom vets consider a high dose? I regularly use 15-20 grams of straight leaf powder. I do know most powders never contain, more than 1.5% alkaloids.

I’m like you, I take about 14-18 grams.

I’m not so sure though about how much that matters though, because if your tolerance is high like ours to the point where 16 grams for me feels like what 7 feels like for someone else, are we really fucking ourselves up that much worse in terms of WD or our bodies overall?

I mean it’s a high dose because we let our tolerances get that high, but our bodies still register it in terms of effect as the same as a smaller dose, and since it doesn’t cause respiratory depression IMO, it’s not like if someone takes a really high dosage of Oxycodone or drinks a liter of Vodka, it’s probably all the same to our bodies in the end.

I should never have let mine get this high and been strict with dosing.

I have never done heroin, but I have a pretty hard time believing that for MOST people ANY amount of PLAIN leaf Kratom could feel as strong as a decent dose of Heroin, especially IV'd.

I'll never touch H, but I am pretty sure if I did shoot some right now it would feel way stronger than 20 grams of plain leaf for me.

 

[Scourge Of Africa]

Idiots spouting off dumb shit like "Kratom is heroin" is why the DEA is on Kratom now. I never down more 10gr straight leaf at once & that puts me on EZ street for hours. This shit is fucking perfect. I can see why the Thai government made K illegal in 1942...it's a huge threat to their opium trade.

 

[Slow_Mobius]

This isn't being made illegal yet. We don't know for sure what the DEA will be able to do. And no, it is not as strong as heroin. It isn't even a full agonist.

 

[Scourge Of Africa]

anyone have thoughts on that study that showed a possible mechanism for mitragynine cardiotoxicity? has kratom raised anyone's blood pressure here, or caused any heart problems? it's such a wonder rug for me but I don't want to cause heart problems

Kratom is a very safe substance. If there are actually any deaths which could be attributed to it the ratio is so ridiculous it's laughable compared to oxy/hydro. Even then there is no known mytragynine toxicity levels. The FDA/ DEA has no (0) medically creditable clinical studies to base they're "kratom is herbal heroin" BS on. NONE!!!

 

[Scourge Of Africa]

Kratom is used to help wean hardcore heroin addicts off H. This fact speaks volumes as to the power of K.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Idiots spouting off dumb shit like "Kratom is heroin" is why the DEA is on Kratom now. I never down more 10gr straight leaf at once & that puts me on EZ street for hours. This shit is fucking perfect. I can see why the Thai government made K illegal in 1942...it's a huge threat to their opium trade.

I didn't say it was heroin, i said it felt like heroin. I was nodding out hard core. ARe you telling me that I was not? Maybe that was a bit of an exaggeration...but it was as good as a medium dose of heroin.

This was with zero tolerance....obviously once you use kratom everyday for like a week you can't get off on it they way you can keep getting off on heroin.

Lying to yourself is not going to fool the DEA, they have doctors and scientists working for them and I wouldn't be surprised if they have actual addicts working for them as well. They are well aware that you can get fucked up off this drug.

Granted it has a ceiling you hit where you can't contintue to get wrecked until you die like with heroin, but saying that its not a real drug you are lying to yourself....why the hell do you think you like it so much if its not good recreational drug?

I think it should stay legal because its not dangerous...just annoying that you can get dependent on it. But its better than ppl jabbing themselves with needles shooting processed tar and elephantanyl into their bodies and supporting cartels which flood the US with meth coke and more heroin.. which is what everyone will be doing after it becomes illegal.

 

[gmlifer]

Kratom is a god send in my life. I can attest to the fact that it IS pretty powerful but I also have not seen any negative side effects from it. Just about everything produced for consumption in the US is addictive it seems like so I can't see banning it on that basis. If that's the case we need to ban McDonald's, soda, coffee, omg redbull and monster, cigarettes and dip..... the list could go on for hours. Kratom helps me more than anyone will know and it would suck to see it go.

 

[Scourge Of Africa]

I wasn't referring to you. That would be rude. I meant in general. The DEA's primary claimed reason is wrong. K is not deadly.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

^agree to that, the DEA couldn't ban it just for causing dependency...so they had to make up a lie that its dangerous which is apparently being challenged pretty harshly by opponents to the dea.

granted they just outlawed CBD which is not dangerous nor intoxicating in any respect whatsoever....so logic and reality has no bearing on what they are able to do unfortunately