Opioids Kratom Mega Thread v. 5

[SS373dOH]

^ Like you said, the differences between red, green, and white are just general rules of thumb. The compounds which induce these effects differ from strain to strain, but also differ from growing locations and from plant to plant. It has been said that dosage also affects what type of high is felt. Lower dosages are stimulating, while higher dosages are said to be more sedating, but this isn't 100% fact either.

 

[Research Professor]

Subversive Herb - A Follow-up Report
Kratom
byXorkoth
Oh MY GOODNESS. THANK YOU XOR BRO FOR THIS REPORT YOU PROBABLY JUST SAVED MY ASS FROM TRYING KRATOM AND IN TURN MAKING A TERRIBLE CHOICE WITH DEVASTATING REPERCUSSIONS.

Respect to those who can use this without risk of addiction potential. I was just shopping for some today at a local headshop. Unfortunately the state I live in cracked down more than hard on legal highs being sold at brick and mortar locations here, FML. Found a local online supplier who I can even call by phone but I read that report right after visiting the site. Kratom, I no longer want to try you, lol.

 

[Ziiirp]

I don't know if it would effect allergy tests, but my eczema is pretty badly effected by Kratom.

Whether or not that's actually a Kratom allergy I don't know, cause I have bad eczema one way or another, and most days I take Kratom I won't have a flare up, but it makes them worse and more frequent.

In fact, most opiates/opioids cause itching and make things like eczema and sometimes maybe psoriasis worse.

But when I had allergy testing done they just tested my reactions to the common allergies: dogs, cats, pollen, etc.

They scratched my skin with small pointy things that had bits of cat hair, dog hair, pollen etc on them and then waited, and my arm was all red and gross where they scratched it, showing I am allergic to all those things.

But assuming they are doing a "scratch test", which is the only kind of allergy test I know of, they aren't going to scratch your arm with Kratom containing materials.

I mean people can be allergic to a billion things other than what they test for in those tests.

Hmm, Kratom usually helped me with my allergies, but I don't like to dose high.

 

[Ziiirp]

Oh MY GOODNESS. THANK YOU XOR BRO FOR THIS REPORT YOU PROBABLY JUST SAVED MY ASS FROM TRYING KRATOM AND IN TURN MAKING A TERRIBLE CHOICE WITH DEVASTATING REPERCUSSIONS.
Respect to those who can use this without risk of addiction potential. I was just shopping for some today at a local headshop. Unfortunately the state I live in cracked down more than hard on legal highs being sold at brick and mortar locations here, FML. Found a local online supplier who I can even call by phone but I read that report right after visiting the site. Kratom, I no longer want to try you,lol

Good for you. Could you please now edit your post, in order to make it less cringey ?

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Subversive Herb - A Follow-up Report
Kratom
byXorkoth
Oh MY GOODNESS. THANK YOU XOR BRO FOR THIS REPORT YOU PROBABLY JUST SAVED MY ASS FROM TRYING KRATOM AND IN TURN MAKING A TERRIBLE CHOICE WITH DEVASTATING REPERCUSSIONS.

Respect to those who can use this without risk of addiction potential. I was just shopping for some today at a local headshop. Unfortunately the state I live in cracked down more than hard on legal highs being sold at brick and mortar locations here, FML. Found a local online supplier who I can even call by phone but I read that report right after visiting the site. Kratom, I no longer want to try you, lol.

I edited your post, please dn't use different text colors and just stick with the normal text size next time!
And don't forget that vendor discussion isn't allowed

 

[Ringo88]

I've started a long course of Diflucan today for an infection .

I'm wondering if I need to stay away from Kratom for this period?

Diflucan can prolong the QT, and I've read Kratom can as well ?

 

[Ringo88]

Anybody know, or have a guess?

 

[mike.vick]

^^^ you ought to be fine.

Does anyone have trouble finding a kratom dose to relieve WDs? It seems like I've heard that there could be opiate antagonism at large doses.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

Does anyone have trouble finding a kratom dose to relieve ODs? It seems like I've heard that there could be opiate antagonism at large doses.

Interesting.

I don't think large doses of kratom would be a viable way to relieve an OD regardless of whatever antagonism may or may not be occurring. The effects come on too slowly to be of use in most OD situations. And if the antagonism that may or may not be going on is of less than significant intensity, then it seems to me the regular effects of kratom would just compound the issue.

But I'm no scientist and I have no clue how the various alkaloids interact in the human body so... Yea. I just jizzed speculation all over the place. Sorry.

Just curious what you mean by an OD in this situation? Most of the time, an OD is when somebody takes too much and either dies or they come very close to dieing. Though sometimes, users refer to getting more high than they wanted to as an "OD" in a slang sort of way. I'm just curious which one you meant?

 

[mike.vick]

Interesting.

I don't think large doses of kratom would be a viable way to relieve an OD regardless of whatever antagonism may or may not be occurring. The effects come on too slowly to be of use in most OD situations. And if the antagonism that may or may not be going on is of less than significant intensity, then it seems to me the regular effects of kratom would just compound the issue.

But I'm no scientist and I have no clue how the various alkaloids interact in the human body so... Yea. I just jizzed speculation all over the place. Sorry.

Just curious what you mean by an OD in this situation? Most of the time, an OD is when somebody takes too much and either dies or they come very close to dieing. Though sometimes, users refer to getting more high than they wanted to as an "OD" in a slang sort of way. I'm just curious which one you meant?

OH SHIT!!! I meant WDs

 

[mike.vick]

Interesting.

I don't think large doses of kratom would be a viable way to relieve an OD regardless of whatever antagonism may or may not be occurring. The effects come on too slowly to be of use in most OD situations. And if the antagonism that may or may not be going on is of less than significant intensity, then it seems to me the regular effects of kratom would just compound the issue.

But I'm no scientist and I have no clue how the various alkaloids interact in the human body so... Yea. I just jizzed speculation all over the place. Sorry.

Just curious what you mean by an OD in this situation? Most of the time, an OD is when somebody takes too much and either dies or they come very close to dieing. Though sometimes, users refer to getting more high than they wanted to as an "OD" in a slang sort of way. I'm just curious which one you meant?

This is my first 12+hrs without~75-80% pure #4 afghan heroin, which I snorted a gram in 6 days, and I took 12 grams of green-vein maeng da and I actually feel warm- it has progressed from delirium of WD to warmth just about 4 hours since dose (the only strain I have left, just opened the seal on ~250grams).

Are higher doses good for WD or does it have antagonistic properties at higher doses that aren't at lower doses- kinda like how 1mg of suboxone is as good, sometimes better, than 4-6mg.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

In my experience, it's the opposite. Small doses of kratom just seem to produce a slight stimulant effect without much opiate effect whereas larger doses are more opiate like (according to popular opinion as well)

I never got much withdrawal relief from small doses. Like if I try taking 1 or 2 grams I don't feel much relief. And whatever relief I do get is quickly gone within an hour or two of dosing.

Large doses (10+ grams in my experience) provide significantly more relief. At these doses, I can feel almost 100% withdrawal relief for atleast 2 to 3 hours with another 2 to 3 hours where I might slowly feel some withdrawals start to develop. So I get about 5 to 6 hours of decent relief.

With even larger doses (12+ grams) I get the same effects as above but I will even experience a slight buzz for 45 minutes or so. I haven't tried dosing higher than ~12g yet. I'm trying to get my tolerance to opiates down lower before switching to kratom full time (I'm currently hooked on Tianeptine and I have been doing a slow taper with the intention of switching to kratom once I taper low enough).

I dunno, maybe higher doses do have some antagonism... It's possible. There is sort of a ceiling when it comes to kratom doses but I think this comes down to high doses of some of the alkaloids causing too much dizziness, stimulation and naseua. I don't think there is an effect like with bupe where smaller doses act more full agonist like.... But I don't for sure.

 

[Mycophile]

Subversive Herb - A Follow-up Report
Kratom
byXorkoth
Oh MY GOODNESS. THANK YOU XOR BRO FOR THIS REPORT YOU PROBABLY JUST SAVED MY ASS FROM TRYING KRATOM AND IN TURN MAKING A TERRIBLE CHOICE WITH DEVASTATING REPERCUSSIONS.

Respect to those who can use this without risk of addiction potential. I was just shopping for some today at a local headshop. Unfortunately the state I live in cracked down more than hard on legal highs being sold at brick and mortar locations here, FML. Found a local online supplier who I can even call by phone but I read that report right after visiting the site. Kratom, I no longer want to try you, lol.

I went and read that report, and it seems that Xorkoth, even though I like him, was unable to control himself and not use Kratom only 2-4 days a week, which for me has kept me from avoiding those serious WD symptoms.

But all you have to do is IF YOU CAN just force youself not to use it more than 4 days in a week, and generally no more than 2 days in a row (I’ve never gone more than 3 in a row which I can sometimes get away with) and you’ll be fine.

If you take it every single day you can end up with those bad WD symptoms, but it’s still a generally forgiving herb in terms of it’s WD unless you take it to that EXTREME extent.

I think you are being extremely dramatic for no reason.

I LOVE Kratom and hope it stays legal.

I’ve been able to avoid serious addiction, never used it more than 4 days a week or more than 16 days in a month and the worst withdrawal I ever got was just 4 days of mild depression and a runny nose.

It’s a VERY safe and mild drug.

I mean yes, it’s addictive, but it’s pretty much the safest and least habit forming opioid out there.

I mean what drugs do you do that you are SO worried about something as relatively benign as Kratom??

Trust me, it would NOT have “devastating repercussions” LOL, unless you like literally can’t stop yourself from eating an ounce or more every day of your life and eventually have some nasty withdrawal, and even then, I bet it wouldn’t last more than a week.

Kratom’s non-toxic and there’s only so much trouble you can get yourself in with it.

 

[MissBoo]

Forgive me for the Newb Kratom question but what is the best way to take kratom, can I just mix it with juice? I am just skeptical of ordering anything over the Internet as who know what is really in the product. Sorry just my paranoid side.

Just imo the tea is gross. Made me puke. Juice is a much better mix. I always order it online there are some great sites out there

 

[Slow_Mobius]

Dosing kratom seems to be extremely individual. Mytragynine is a partial agonist, but there are many active alkaloids, and mytragynine itself seems to have unique activity at the opioid receptor compared to every other opioid. Not enough is really understood about its activity to say where the ceiling effect or antagonistic activity will really come into play.

Most every kratom user will tell you that you have to find your "sweet spot" for dosing. For one person, 3-4g could be a sedating dose that gives them plenty of opioid effects, while others need 10+. Best advice is to start low and work your way up.

I think mycophile is on the money with scheduling doses to avoid addiction. Hes a pretty experienced user and the same is true IME. Dosing frequency seems to have a much bigger impact on dependency than dosing strength.

I get pain relief superior to stronger opioids like oxycodone using kratom every day, but my doses never get out of hand. It's been pretty easy for me to maintain between 6-15g a day without ever going over that. When I take a break, WD aren't bad at all, and the worst of it is over within a day or two. Just my 2c

 

[varg]

After a few months without kratom (occasionally took tramadol / O-desmethyltramadol) I had a dose of 7.5 grams of bali yesterday. Heavenly feeling, incredible synergy with weed and such a great and relaxed body high.
I stopped the kratom usage because I suspected it to constribute to my insomnia. Kratom worked great for me as a sleep aid, then after 3-4 years of usage it always gave me early awakenings. So I stopped the usage almost completely for about a year. I had a few trials within the year, and almost always had bad hangovers, insomnia or early awakenings. The trial yesterday was the complete opposite, I fell asleep instantly when my head hit the pillow and slept like a champion until my bell rang. My mood today was incredibly great, no sign of a hangover. I really hope that I can return to occasional kratom use without sleep problems. Anyone else had problems with kratom and early awakening? I know that a lot of folks have trouble falling asleep on kratom, but I had not read one experience about early awakening.

 

[Mycophile]

Dosing kratom seems to be extremely individual. Mytragynine is a partial agonist, but there are many active alkaloids, and mytragynine itself seems to have unique activity at the opioid receptor compared to every other opioid. Not enough is really understood about its activity to say where the ceiling effect or antagonistic activity will really come into play.

Most every kratom user will tell you that you have to find your "sweet spot" for dosing. For one person, 3-4g could be a sedating dose that gives them plenty of opioid effects, while others need 10+. Best advice is to start low and work your way up.

I think mycophile is on the money with scheduling doses to avoid addiction. Hes a pretty experienced user and the same is true IME. Dosing frequency seems to have a much bigger impact on dependency than dosing strength.

I get pain relief superior to stronger opioids like oxycodone using kratom every day, but my doses never get out of hand. It's been pretty easy for me to maintain between 6-15g a day without ever going over that. When I take a break, WD aren't bad at all, and the worst of it is over within a day or two. Just my 2c

Yeah, the thing is, it’s not like I can’t get some mildly uncomfortable withdrawal for a day or two if I use too much, but it ends quickly.

My rule is not to dose more than 2 days in a row and not more than 4 in a week, but occasionally I will break it and pay for it.

I can just force myself to go a few days without and it’s never lasted more than 4 days or been bad for more than 2.

But the more days in a row you use the worse it will be when you stop.

I think the problem is people not realizing ahead of time that it can get bad if you don’t make some rules for yourself so they dose like a week or more in a row before they ever stop for a day to see how they feel and then they realize they are addicted.

You have to be aware enough of it’s potential for WDs to take a day or two off every few days so you know where you are at: then if you take a day off and you feel really bad then that’s how you know you HAVE to abstain for a few days, because from that point on if you don’t it will get worse.

It’s like building up debt if you don’t take a break or saving money when you take a few days off: when you take a few days off you’ve earned yourself some extra days of fun, and if you do the opposite you’ll have a sucky few days.

Just don’t make the mistake of never stopping to see how your body is feeling without it, cause then you’ll never know you are dependent if you dose the second you wake up.

 

[mike.vick]

I just read that kratom POWDER binded to the mu-receptor at 350x-less potency than morphine, which would put it at about 10g of powder equals ~27.8mg of morphine, which if it had 1% alkaloids, would make them 12:1 overall potency relative to morphine with mytriginine contributing to ~65% of the alkaloid content and 7-hmg 2% of the alkaloid total. ~15.6 grams of kratom would have to be consumed for a ~45mg equanalgesic dose of morphine.

A BINDING PROFILE THAT IS 350:1 kratom powder:morphine RATIO SHOULD NEVER BE BANNED, IT SHOULD EVEN BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY, IBUPROFEN HAS A 400:1 ANALGESIC RATIO TO MORPHINE, STOP CRYING, MYCOPHILE, BECAUSE YOU"you find it a lil addicting" THAT IS THE TYPE OF RIDICULOUS TALK THAT PUT THIS INNOCUOUS PLANT UNDER DEA WATCH - GET IT TOGETHER AND STOP WHINING ABOUT THE NON-NEGATIVES OF KRATOM.

It seems like everytime I click on here you are talking about "the addictiveness and wd of kratom should not be underestimated" It has a 350:1 analgesic ratio to morphine in powdered form- get it together! This is literally impossible to abuse due to the shear unpleasantness of volume of consumption - that be like complaining about having a TERRIBLE problem with 3.2% beer....

 

[Slow_Mobius]

I just read that kratom POWDER binded to the mu-receptor at 350x-less potency than morphine, which would put it at about 10g of powder equals ~27.8mg of morphine, which if it had 1% alkaloids, would make them 12:1 overall potency relative to morphine with mytriginine contributing to ~65% of the alkaloid content and 7-hmg 2% of the alkaloid total. ~15.6 grams of kratom would have to be consumed for a ~45mg equanalgesic dose of morphine.

A BINDING PROFILE THAT IS 350:1 kratom powder:morphine RATIO SHOULD NEVER BE BANNED, IT SHOULD EVEN BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY, IBUPROFEN HAS A 400:1 ANALGESIC RATIO TO MORPHINE, STOP CRYING, MYCOPHILE, BECAUSE YOU"you find it a lil addicting" THAT IS THE TYPE OF RIDICULOUS TALK THAT PUT THIS INNOCUOUS PLANT UNDER DEA WATCH - GET IT TOGETHER AND STOP WHINING ABOUT THE NON-NEGATIVES OF KRATOM.

It seems like everytime I click on here you are talking about "the addictiveness and wd of kratom should not be underestimated" It has a 350:1 analgesic ratio to morphine in powdered form- get it together! This is literally impossible to abuse due to the shear unpleasantness of volume of consumption - that be like complaining about having a TERRIBLE problem with 3.2% beer....

Can you post a reference to where you read this? I'm curious about how exactly they did the experiments

 

[mike.vick]

Can you post a reference to where you read this? I'm curious about how exactly they did the experiments

Found Journal on google, have full access as I am university student
article titled:
"From Kratom to mitragynine and its derivatives: Physiological and behavioural
effects related to use, abuse, and addiction"
Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews 37 (2013) 138–151

Pharmacology section - FULL SECTION
11.1. Receptor interactions
Mitragynine displays a high affinity to (MU)-opioid receptors
(Yamamoto et al., 1999). Also its oxidative derivative, mitragynine
pseudoindoxyl, exhibits potent opioid agonistic properties in
vitro. Pharmacological investigations have shown that mitragynine
acts at supraspinal- (MU) and (DELTA)-opioid receptors for its antinociceptive
effects (Matsumoto et al., 1996a; Tohda et al., 1997;
Thongpradichote et al., 1998). However, for other psychoactive
effects, central opioid receptors may be more relevant. The affinity
of mitragynine to (MU)- and (KA)-opioid receptors is considerably lower,
but higher than that of morphine. It was shown that the methoxy
group at the C9 position as well as the Nb lone electron pair in the
fundamental structure are essential for the opioid agonist activity
(Takayama et al., 2002; Taufik Hidayat et al., 2010). A high opioid
receptor potency was found for the minor M. speciosa constituent 7-
HMG, suggesting full agonist properties. Kratom powder was found
to have a 350-fold less affinity to the (MU)-opioid receptor than morphine
in a 3H-[D-Ala2,N-MePhe4, Gly-ol]-enkephalin(3H-DAMGO)
radioligand binding assay in HEK 293 cells (Havemann-Reinecke,
2011).
11.2. Cellular effects
At cellular level, mitragynine inhibits neurotransmitter release
from the nerve endings at the vas deferens, partly through the
blockade of neuronal Ca2+ channels (Matsumoto et al., 2005b).
The authors proposed the neuronal Ca2+ channel-blocking effect
of mitragynine as a general mechanism for the analgesic and other
physiological actions of mitragynine. In addition, mitragynine was
shown to inhibit forskolin-stimulated cAMP formation in NG108-
15 cells in vitro. This effect could be blocked by the opioid receptor
antagonist naloxone, but not by the alpha-2-adrenoceptor antagonist
idazoxane (Tohda et al., 1997).

I would have thought it would have a-2-agonist action like clonidine, which adds pain-relief, since it is structurally shaped similar to an a-2-antagonist yhoimbe