Opioids Kratom - dose higher or not?

[karrotx]

Whoa this was nice! Just had a pretty unexpected 2h semi-nod from ~3g red +4g gold vein (+6mg loperamide, I doubt that this contributed but it was more intense than expected and opioid tolerance is to a good part mediated by peripheral receptors as blocking them slows tolerance down significantly. Was all I had left and read that you can potentiate morphine with otherwise inactive amounts). Very clear, no nausea, jitteryness or headache! But now some sweating, really wish the day-long duration would be true for me.

Do you have experiences with mixing strains? Sounds like green+red might be worth a try to get more euphoria.

But what saddens me is that I remember that in another life, just lying in bed comfortably in the evening would always feel like this.

I've found red +green combination to have an odd synergy that just felt off putting and unpleasant. I only tried that combo a couple of times and it never gave me the effects I desired. My favorite combinations would have to be gold +green or gold +red. I usually will do about 3g red + 1.5g gold and this gets me feeling very pleasant and euphoric. Definitely gets rid of any pain I may be experiencing and lets me sleep nicely. I would definitely recommend trying these combos! :D

 

[shahab6]

Kratom is getting pretty expensive in my area. I use to try the shoot for $10, and it pretty good. But now there charging $20 for one shoot. I mean for $10 more, I can buy half a gram of heroin, which has a stronger, better high, and I can get 4-5 dosage out of that.
It doesn't make sense to use Kratom anymore.

 

[dopamimetic]

It doesn't make sense to use Kratom anymore.

Happen not to have trusty connections for illicit drugs at the moment, so I have to pay the price for prohibition. But it's true, shops are overpriced - guess they source it dirt cheap in these Asian countries. Maybe it should keep people away from over-doing it, as more and more countries are banning it.

Yesterday had an extract that was sold as 15x, recommended dose 1g (so obviously not as potent as advertised). 3g of it barely killed withdrawal but caused intense tachycardia.
5g of gold vein are much better. But I need something to combine with it to get more energy ... maybe I'll try coffee but don't want tachycardia again.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Whoa this was nice! Just had a pretty unexpected 2h semi-nod from ~3g red +4g gold vein (+6mg loperamide, I doubt that this contributed but it was more intense than expected and opioid tolerance is to a good part mediated by peripheral receptors as blocking them slows tolerance down significantly. Was all I had left and read that you can potentiate morphine with otherwise inactive amounts). Very clear, no nausea, jitteryness or headache! But now some sweating, really wish the day-long duration would be true for me.

Do you have experiences with mixing strains? Sounds like green+red might be worth a try to get more euphoria.

But what saddens me is that I remember that in another life, just lying in bed comfortably in the evening would always feel like this.

A bit off topic but I've always hated the nod from kratom. It can make it hard to function when you're forced to take some kind of opie out of fear of the legendary sickness. Mild stims help greatly with that, but then you're liable for a crash from two substances as opposed to one in theory.

Nodding out was never fun for me but I guess users associate it with euphoria so they begin to enjoy it?

 

[dopamimetic]

I barely ever got a nod even from morphine, would rather reach overdose with dysphoria and slow breath so I sticked with lower doses. Agree that the sedation from red vein was not enjoyable as it is mainly physical but the mind continues to do senseless thinking instead of floating in euphoria. The few occasions I nodded from strong opioids though were indeed extremely blissful. Euphoria with serotonergics or dissociatives can be more powerful but opioids make you just care about nothing at all which is pretty unique. Unfortunately kratom doesn't do this.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I barely ever got a nod even from morphine, would rather reach overdose with dysphoria and slow breath so I sticked with lower doses. Agree that the sedation from red vein was not enjoyable as it is mainly physical but the mind continues to do senseless thinking instead of floating in euphoria. The few occasions I nodded from strong opioids though were indeed extremely blissful. Euphoria with serotonergics or dissociatives can be more powerful but opioids make you just care about nothing at all which is pretty unique. Unfortunately kratom doesn't do this.

I agree. People who enjoy opiates the most tend to be the ones who struggle constantly with depression or in my case numbness. That care freeness is really what people are after. Benzos can deliver that but just can't compare to the pleasure aspect of this wonderfully evil class of drugs. I think kratom can make one care-free. I don't know about the content of it really but some particular batches (regardless of strains) have floored me in terms of potency. It's fairly consistent but on occasion you'll get a memorable bag of kratom that is so much stronger than the norm.

 

[dopamimetic]

I agree. People who enjoy opiates the most tend to be the ones who struggle constantly with depression or in my case numbness. That care freeness is really what people are after. Benzos can deliver that but just can't compare to the pleasure aspect of this wonderfully evil class of drugs. I think kratom can make one care-free. I don't know about the content of it really but some particular batches (regardless of strains) have floored me in terms of potency. It's fairly consistent but on occasion you'll get a memorable bag of kratom that is so much stronger than the norm.

Kratom unfortunately becomes dysphoric before reaching really care-free amounts. The euphoria is just much more subtle and the sedation isn't as balanced out between mind and body. It might be a good potentiator to take alongside another opioid, depending on their affinity and whether mitragynine is a full or partial agonist (wikipedia says it's not yet known). Maybe extraction of the mitragynines would make a better recreational, if it's other alkaloids causing the stimulation and/or nausea. Saw once pure HCl being sold but it was overly expensive so I didn't buy.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Kratom unfortunately becomes dysphoric before reaching really care-free amounts. The euphoria is just much more subtle and the sedation isn't as balanced out between mind and body. It might be a good potentiator to take alongside another opioid, depending on their affinity and whether mitragynine is a full or partial agonist (wikipedia says it's not yet known). Maybe extraction of the mitragynines would make a better recreational, if it's other alkaloids causing the stimulation and/or nausea. Saw once pure HCl being sold but it was overly expensive so I didn't buy.

My opinion is that kratom does not potentiate nor cancel out an opioid. It's really hard to describe in text--some effects are enhanced while others are diminished--so I would guess it's a partial agonist.

It has really nothing to do with science, but it's always felt like kratom is a friendly substance (despite the withdrawal honestly being quite severe for frequent users), but opioids/opiates have this abuser element that makes it seem like it wants to take over your life and control it. Maybe the additional highway of alkloids in opioids additionally affect the brain more producing a higher need for dependency. It is really a good research project to find more out about kratom and how it is similar and different than painkillers.

 

[Hylight]

Kratom might metabolize more slowly and painkillers might effect the brain more directly.

It is a very interesting focus on perspective to me and I should look into this also.
A physician might know however its very professional to be biased in the medical system currently. Like they may redirect and change the subject matter, if it doesn't apply.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

My opinion is that kratom does not potentiate nor cancel out an opioid

That's how it is for me, very hard to describe. When mixed with other opioids it somehow synergizes with some parts and cancels out other parts at the same time, almost like a net gain of 0 somehow. I think this varies wildly person to person, though, as some report the combination results in increased effects while others report the kratom "blocking" opioid effects. Probably lots of variables at play: individual reactions, individual perceptions, different tolerance levels, different opioids, different dosage levels etc



Kratom helps me tremendously with tapering other opioids. When I wake up in the morning on days I'm tapering, I try to wait as long as possible before dosing instead of dosing the second I open my eyes. Then instead of taking my usual morning dose of whatever opioid I'm dependent on, I take a small dose of kratom (Like 2 grams) Then I survive on the kratom effects from that dose as long as possible then use my usual opioid for the rest of the day albeit at a slightly lower dose. I don't know what it is about this approach but doing it this way allows me to taper faster than usual with less discomfort.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

That's how it is for me, very hard to describe. When mixed with other opioids it somehow synergizes with some parts and cancels out other parts at the same time, almost like a net gain of 0 somehow. I think this varies wildly person to person, though, as some report the combination results in increased effects while others report the kratom "blocking" opioid effects. Probably lots of variables at play: individual reactions, individual perceptions, different tolerance levels, different opioids, different dosage levels etc



Kratom helps me tremendously with tapering other opioids. When I wake up in the morning on days I'm tapering, I try to wait as long as possible before dosing instead of dosing the second I open my eyes. Then instead of taking my usual morning dose of whatever opioid I'm dependent on, I take a small dose of kratom (Like 2 grams) Then I survive on the kratom effects from that dose as long as possible then use my usual opioid for the rest of the day albeit at a slightly lower dose. I don't know what it is about this approach but doing it this way allows me to taper faster than usual with less discomfort.

I wish someone with a gigantic scientific background could explain what happens to the brain when you combine the two.

...Oh when it comes to opiate withdrawal it's a godsend! I got hooked on it because I thought "well at least it's not pills and it's legal so I might as well switch to this." I don't know how you hold off like that. It was the first thing I did everyday for 2 years.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

I usually can't hold off in the morning very long but I still consider it a small victory when I can force myself to wait an hour or two after waking up to dose as opposed to dosing the moment I open my eyes. During periods of heavy use I always keep doses of whatever opioid I'm using on my night stand so that I can dose in the middle of night if needed and also the instant I wake up in the morning. Holding off an hour or two is part of my process of breaking such habits when tapering/preparing to quit.

 

[Lostbeebabe]

Is it safe to mix kratom, Loperamide and Xanax? Spaced out with hours in between. Going through oxy withdrawal, day 6 and feeling like hell! Day 1-2 weren’t bad but now it seems never ending. I took the advice of someone and took 18mg at 6. Wondering if it will safe to take .5-1mg of Xanax tonight to help me get to sleep. Will this ever end?! I also don’t want to get hooked on kratom and have kratom wd’s. I’ve taken about 2-6gs a day for 5 days

 

[negrogesic]

Is it safe to mix kratom, Loperamide and Xanax? Spaced out with hours in between. Going through oxy withdrawal, day 6 and feeling like hell! Day 1-2 weren’t bad but now it seems never ending. I took the advice of someone and took 18mg at 6. Wondering if it will safe to take .5-1mg of Xanax tonight to help me get to sleep. Will this ever end?! I also don’t want to get hooked on kratom and have kratom wd’s. I’ve taken about 2-6gs a day for 5 days

Yes this is a safe combination.

You are at the worst part, it will get better soon, at least physically.

 

[dopamimetic]

I'm not completely sure about placebo but it feels hella real. CBD (40-60mg) and kratom make an awesome synergy, takes off the dysphoric edge and the lingering speediness.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

It's wild hearing all these different experiences with kratom. It seems like no matter what brand, store, vendor, etc.. I got mine from, it did almost absolutely nothing for me. I wouldn't even say it felt opiate like except for the extreme nausea, which was also mentioned a few comments back about how much worse this nausea can be just because your stomach has to digest all that powder and plant matter.

 

[Lostbeebabe]

How many days or doses would you say it takes to get dependent on kratom? I’ve taken either one or two 3g doses of kratom for the past 6-7 days (one in the morning and one at night).

Any advice or suggestions on when to stop to avoid kratom dependency or withdrawals would be extremely helpful! I am starting to feel a little better today physically, mentally my anxiety is through the roof!

 

[Lostbeebabe]

Yes this is a safe combination.

You are at the worst part, it will get better soon, at least physically.

How many day’s should I take And then stop kratom before Building a dependency and going through kratom withdrawal?

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

How many day’s should I take And then stop kratom before Building a dependency and going through kratom withdrawal?

You've got a long time trust me. Much longer than you're thinking. If you take it everyday for 2 months you're looking for some problems but even then at doses below 6-7 g daily won't produce a withdrawal anywhere near what you're feeling like right now. Mild kratom withdrawal is a walk in the damn park. Withdrawing after taking it everyday for 2 years in doses of 10-20 grams or so daily is definitely not lol.

If someone who takes 20 grams fives times a day daily could explain to me your method of consumption or how you don't experience nausea then that would be very illuminating for me lol. Just curious. I know serious kratom eating monsters are definitely lurking on this website! The taste makes me suicidal. Exaggerating but it does make me want to throw up.

 

[shahab6]

Happen not to have trusty connections for illicit drugs at the moment, so I have to pay the price for prohibition. But it's true, shops are overpriced - guess they source it dirt cheap in these Asian countries. Maybe it should keep people away from over-doing it, as more and more countries are banning it.

Yesterday had an extract that was sold as 15x, recommended dose 1g (so obviously not as potent as advertised). 3g of it barely killed withdrawal but caused intense tachycardia.
5g of gold vein are much better. But I need something to combine with it to get more energy ... maybe I'll try coffee but don't want tachycardia again.

True, if its too cheap, people will abuse it.