klonopin questions

[squirrel_girl]

Hi,
I searched around for the answers to my questions but couldn't find any. I'm new so if this is a repeat post please tell me / delete it.

So this is the situation: I have been on Wellbutrin 300xl for awhile and it works, but only for my depression. My doc has put me on buspar, zoloft, and hydroxyzine, but none did anything to help my severe anxiety disorder. Finally, we agreed that trying klonopin was the move.

She told me to start out taking .5mg at night. However, the pharmacy gave me 1mg pills, which I stupidly did not realize until after I'd taken a couple of doses (I already emailed her about this). So today, after i'd realized that I needed to cut the pills in half, I took .5mg. The problem is that that dose did nothing!

could it be that my tolerance has already built up? (this is my third day taking klonopin). or could it be that .5mg is just not enough to combat my anxiety?

also, this is weird, but taking the klonopin (at least before it kicks in) makes me extremely anxious. I'm very very worried about getting addicted to it, because I already feel like a pull towards it. My doc said that next week I should start taking it twice a day.
Do you think I can get addicted if I take it mostly as prescribed? (I say mostly because I took my dose in the afternoon yesterday and today instead of at night because the anxiety was killing me). I'm also worried about becoming addicted because I took 1mg yesterday and felt good, but today, when the .5 mg didn't work, i took another .5mg (which I probably wasn't supposed to do but I really just wanted the panic to stop). That seems addict-ish to me.
It also feels like when i'm not "high" on the klonopin, I'm even more anxious than I was before I started taking it. Is that possible? Also, something that's causing me major stress is that my doc is only giving me 2 refills on this medication (so 3 months total) and even now, the thought of not having klonopin in the future is making me anxious.

**disclaimer: I know I'm not addicted yet, I'm just wondering if anyone knows how long it takes to get addicted or what steps I can take to make sure I don't? My psych is monitoring me, but I don't want to tell her about this fear yet because the 1mg klonopin is the only thing that has ever stopped my anxiety, and I've been trying different meds and methods for about a year to control my severe and debilitating anxiety. I fear if I tell her that I'm afraid of getting addicted that she won't prescribe me any more.

i really don't want to abuse this klonopin, i really just want my anxiety to be under control.

sorry for the long, specific post and sorry if i said anything i wasn't supposed to. Thanks in advance.

 

[Ian's Pharmacopeia]

You seem really anxious even just writing this post haha. But benzo addiction is not good for sure and there is a very real chance that you could start getting withdrawals after about a week or two of dosing every day. If you are really worried though, just make sure to take breaks every so often to make sure that your tolerance doesn't build up and that you don't develop withdrawal symptoms. A good rule of thumb is that after stopping use tolerance returns to baseline in 7 - 14 days. Always make sure to taper off if you do feel as though you are getting withdrawals, as the withdrawals can cause some pretty extreme symptoms. You can even die from withdrawals if you are dosing very high every day. Just make sure that you be careful and you should be fine though.

 

[Mmp85]

I take it almost nightly but if I don't feel like I need it I don't take it if that makes sense?
I'm not saying wait until you're in a full blown anxiety attack to take it I'm just saying if it's bed a relaxing evening and nothing is bothering you and you feel like you could go straight to bed and fall asleep, you probably don't need it in that moment.
My prescription is written for 1 mg's twice a day as needed, so I have enough that I could follow a strict dose but I don't have to.
I've taken it this way for years and never developed a physical dependency on it.
Does that sound like something that would work for your anxiety?

 

[squirrel_girl]

thanks for both of your replies. i have been trying to take it as infrequently as possible.
it is comforting to know you have taken it for years and not gotten dependent, because that was what i was afraid of.

 

[Lorne???]

It’s called rebound anxiety and it is both possible and and perhaps common

You need to calm down you are worried about something that, at least physically simply hasn’t happened yet

Gotta go for now though good luck and needing 1mg instead of of 0.5 isn’t “addict” like

 

[Steady Scootin]

Hopefully you can find something to curb your ongoing, generalized anxiety, while taking the Klonopin if and when you have more sudden, intense instances of anxiety. Have any new medications for that been discussed?

 

[Pilll_head]

I think what you are concerned about is dependency, not addiction, per se. To me at least, addiction starts when you are intentionally taking meds (or other drugs) recreationally. Your usage starts becoming more important to you than other things (family, career, relationships), the usage starts causing health/legal/financial problems but you don't care because you get too much enjoyment from using so you keep doing it anyway, knowing the damage it is causing. You have to keep increasing the dosage because the previous dosage doesn't get you high anymore. These are the hallmarks of addiction.

Dependency has more to do with experiencing withdrawal symptoms when you decrease dosage or suddenly stop. This happens with a lot of meds, such as SSRIs, benzos, pain meds and Z-drugs. My personal opinion is that these are used to treat conditions that are much worse than dependency - uncontrolled depression, pain, anxiety or insomnia will ruin your life. I think as long as you are getting a benefit from the klon at 0.5 mg twice a day then I don't think I would get overly concerned.

On the other hand, if you find you are having to up the dose, or the klon just isn't controlling your anxiety, you need to definitely have a conversation with your doc - this is what they get paid the big bucks to solve. Hope this helps.

 

[stillkickin]

I feel compelled to voice that benzos really IMHO should only be used as a short term solution for anxiety. I've been on this board years as well as others and I don't recall a single person who habitually took the same dose of a benzo for any length of time with great success. It almost always immediately helps at a therapeutic dose, but withing a few months to even sometimes longer, the dose must rise. This cycle typically continues until you have a gorilla on your back that makes you willing to do nearly anything to just get back to that state you were in before you started. I'm really not trying to scare you off, but this is my personal experience along with anecdotal accounts of thousands of other people.

For the record, I still keep xanax around for sever panic situations but I make sure to not dose consecutive days and no more than twice a week. Keep in mind xanax has a significantly lower half life the klonopin (meaning it stays in your system significantly longer).

I truly hope you find relief. Chronic anxiety is not a plight I wish on anyone (well maybe ..... no, not anyone).

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey OP, we'd be happy to help you out. Benzodiazepines are similar to Opioids in a lot of ways and different from other Antidepressants in a lot of ways. What do I mean? Well, if you're experiencing anxiety of a severe nature, it's safer to bet that a Benzodiazepine will make you less anxious, just like an Opioid will reduce your pain. It's not like a lot of other Psychiatric medications where there is a great deal of trial and error involved in selecting effective medications. The point that I'm trying to illustrate is, it is normal to experience relief from Benzodiazepines and I don't want you to feel special because of it.

Why? Because, just like the college student who Amphetamines "just work for", assuming that you've found the only key that fits the lock is a major pitfall that can lead to immediate, daily usage. Most people will experience a peaceful state of mind upon taking Benzodiazepines, as you have. Many folks would also find that .5mg Clonazepam is not enough to completely arrest their symptoms. That is the point though. Medication is not supposed to do all of the leg-work. In theory, you should be receiving some benefit from the medication in the hopes that you will then be able to work through the issues more effectively from a place of more control.

Simply taking enough Benzodiazepines to eliminate your symptoms without working on yourself is a path toward addiction and dependency without any true, lasting benefit from the therapy. You are very right to be afraid of dependence, as it seems that the majority of Pyschiatrists are totally unfamiliar with the prescribing guidelines for Benzodiazepines i.e. they are only supposed to be used for severe anxiety and only for acute periods of typically no more than 2 weeks. In practice, I've actually never heard a PsyD reference these guidelines, but that's how it is.

You should be saving Benzodiazepines for especially severe instances of Anxiety. They are extremely useful tools for this purpose, but once tolerance develops, they can become utterly useless and you can be left dealing with a crippling dependence.

 

[Tzcatlipoca]

Hey OP, we'd be happy to help you out. Benzodiazepines are similar to Opioids in a lot of ways and different from other Antidepressants in a lot of ways. What do I mean? Well, if you're experiencing anxiety of a severe nature, it's safer to bet that a Benzodiazepine will make you less anxious, just like an Opioid will reduce your pain. It's not like a lot of other Psychiatric medications where there is a great deal of trial and error involved in selecting effective medications. The point that I'm trying to illustrate is, it is normal to experience relief from Benzodiazepines and I don't want you to feel special because of it.

Why? Because, just like the college student who Amphetamines "just work for", assuming that you've found the only key that fits the lock is a major pitfall that can lead to immediate, daily usage. Most people will experience a peaceful state of mind upon taking Benzodiazepines, as you have. Many folks would also find that .5mg Clonazepam is not enough to completely arrest their symptoms. That is the point though. Medication is not supposed to do all of the leg-work. In theory, you should be receiving some benefit from the medication in the hopes that you will then be able to work through the issues more effectively from a place of more control.

Simply taking enough Benzodiazepines to eliminate your symptoms without working on yourself is a path toward addiction and dependency without any true, lasting benefit from the therapy. You are very right to be afraid of dependence, as it seems that the majority of Pyschiatrists are totally unfamiliar with the prescribing guidelines for Benzodiazepines i.e. they are only supposed to be used for severe anxiety and only for acute periods of typically no more than 2 weeks. In practice, I've actually never heard a PsyD reference these guidelines, but that's how it is.

You should be saving Benzodiazepines for especially severe instances of Anxiety. They are extremely useful tools for this purpose, but once tolerance develops, they can become utterly useless and you can be left dealing with a crippling dependence.

Wonderful post I have to second this. Pyrazolam and Etizolam have been the most anti-anxiolytic and useful ones for me. Although some dependency developed over the rough December, I'll weather it out with some opi action.

 

[truenamebrand]

It’s called rebound anxiety and it is both possible and and perhaps common

You need to calm down you are worried about something that, at least physically simply hasn’t happened yet

Gotta go for now though good luck and needing 1mg instead of of 0.5 isn’t “addict” like

Clonazepam’s half-life is so long that rebound anxiety is not so much of a problem. I only ever experienced significant rebound anxiety from alprazolam and lorazepam.

That said, OP, he is correct in that physical dependency has not set in in such a short period of time. It will typically take a few months, at least, to become dependent. Even then, if use is more sporadic and not daily, you’re unlikely to become physically dependent at all. I went years with a steady benzo script for klonopin and Valium, basically binging on new scripts, and not really developing a physical dependency. Though the times I went without were not fun.

Ironically enough, it was only once I started using my clonazepam (klonopin) in a manner more consistent with therapeutic levels, that physical dependency was a problem.

While .5 may indeed not be quite enough, remember that klonopin is a very subtle, but VERY powerful benzo. It doesn’t pack the initial punch that diazepam or alprazolam do, but it will really fuck you up in high doses. And you won’t even realize how much of a mess you are until you look back at the aftermath. Trust me on this. I took diazepam for years without it causing me problems, but once I switched to the more subtle clonazepam, bad things started to happen. Car accidents, outbursts at work and other “benzo rage,” etc.

Bottom line, if you’re uncomfortable taking it, as you seem to be, maybe avoid even going down this road. Getting off benzos is hell, and being on them for an extended period of time will badly damage your cognitive abilities, and especially your coping skills. I’ve been off them for six months now and I’m still desperately trying to learn how to function without them.

Best of luck

 

[shrugger]

I know exactly where you are ... hopefully not any more. I was on Klonopin for 8 years 1-2mg once a day. The doc just took me off them one day, he's got his own problems, I'm sure he was having DEA issues, anyway, that's another story for another thread. I had incredibly terrible withdrawal symptoms, not just rebound anxiety. The easiest way to describe it was I was like a lightning rod in the worst thunderstorm imaginable. My sensitivity to emotion was off the charts and my brain wasn't turning down the volume, the klonopin was doing that for 8 years. So just everyday irritations would induce panic attacks. I found another doc who helped me taper me down over a year and happily I can tell you I'm Klonopin free. I wouldn't say the stuff was bad, it helped when I needed it most. My doc failed me.
My advice would to be very careful with that stuff. I think doc are way more versed on proper usage of it now days, but you're still at their mercy. If you can manage the anxiety with SSRI's (which I do now) way better course to take. That being said, this is just my story. I've talked to people who had zero withdrawal from benzos. I think they are probably the exception, not the rule. Good Luck!!

 

[squirrel_girl]

thank you all for your replies. overall hearing that i should take them as infrequently as i can, which i've been doing. i'm also going to talk to my psych about more long term solutions. she's only given me 2 refills, so i think she's aware of the negatives that benzos can cause.
also, you're right that klonopin shouldn't do everything, just give me the ability to be able to deal w anxiety. it's crazy that doctors can give you meds that can mess you up so badly like this :0

 

[McFeces]

I’m on 1mg a day, and my doctor has reassured me multiple times that as long as I take it as prescribed, it’ll take a very long time before I’m physically dependAnt. Like, 6 months, and even so, it should be easy to come off by tapering. Though I’ve known people to become addicted within a few weeks who abuse the hell out of it. I’ve been on it for about 3 months now. Recently I doubled my dose for a week in attempts to deal with a crisis, and i had to go the following week without any. To my
surprise, I was completely fine the entire time.

 

[Zonxx]

Any daily usage of narcotics can lead to addiction however benzos are the ouchy for me as i take em when needed especially for when i use crack but the problem is with daily higher dose use, 2-6mg at these doses everyday your body will accustom to it, and theres a reason benzos are handed out to alcoholics, they will prevent the anxiety shakes and high chance of Seizure, SEIZURES are the biggest downside to benzo withdrawal, thus in my book, having been xr'd em forever because of previous alcoholism (2-4 bottles of rum a day) n i went to my doc the day i drank an entire bottle in an hour and went for more, and he hit me with benzos and told me not to stop drinking and that as long as i followed his guidance id be able to knock it off, well i did and hey i drink 1-2 bottles a month now if even that back to my point, benzos are PHYSICALLY and mentally addicting to plainly answer your question, case closed.

 

[Sweetshuie]

I take Klonopin. But I take more than prescribed. Then I run out and go a week not taking them. I feel some withdrawals. I also do crack socially and take klonopin with it. It even’s out the high. What do you feel when you mix both?

 

[Zonxx]

I take Klonopin. But I take more than prescribed. Then I run out and go a week not taking them. I feel some withdrawals. I also do crack socially and take klonopin with it. It even’s out the high. What do you feel when you mix both?

It entirely dulls the crack, tried once ended up using waaaay more to feel ' THAT' feeling use it only for coming down or in situations if you feel youve od'd on coke to lower your heart rate.
Plus due to as mentioned before, youre putting yourself at risk of using much much more crack than youd use without taking together and it genuinely to me, IS FOR THE COMEDOWN, if you find crack too stimulating which is why you mix both... snort coke instead
P.s. i smoke between 20-40 grams of coke plus per month so id know what im talking about

 

[Sweetshuie]

It entirely dulls the crack, tried once ended up using waaaay more to feel ' THAT' feeling use it only for coming down or in situations if you feel youve od'd on coke to lower your heart rate.
Plus due to as mentioned before, youre putting yourself at risk of using much much more crack than youd use without taking together and it genuinely to me, IS FOR THE COMEDOWN, if you find crack too stimulating which is why you mix both... snort coke instead

Yes I understand that. I stopped doing the benzo and just taking it like 15 minutes before bed.
Thank you for your opinion.

 

[Sweetshuie]

Yes I understand that. I stopped doing the benzo and just taking it like 15 minutes before bed.
Thank you for your opinion.

Why snort coke? Is their much of a difference? I did coke for 9 years straight every day. I quit that in April of 2006

 

[Sweetshuie]

It entirely dulls the crack, tried once ended up using waaaay more to feel ' THAT' feeling use it only for coming down or in situations if you feel youve od'd on coke to lower your heart rate.
Plus due to as mentioned before, youre putting yourself at risk of using much much more crack than youd use without taking together and it genuinely to me, IS FOR THE COMEDOWN, if you find crack too stimulating which is why you mix both... snort coke instead
P.s. i smoke between 20-40 grams of coke plus per month so id know what im talking about

I smoke I think about 25 a month. I tried it 2 months ago. I love it. I lost a lot of weight and I’m already small