Klonopin "as needed"

[kamikaz3]

First time poster, long time reader. Ptsd, Add, anxiety with panic attacks, pmdd, insomnia (dont sleep for days without medication) Psych recently scribed Klon "as needed" for the bad days and to help with sleep, along with Add3r@l x2 daily. Mix has worked like magic. Stream lined. No ups or downs. No bad days.... when I take the klon. Days off, the intrusive thoughts/old trauma start trickling back.. FAST like its all been repressed. QUESTION- Is there anything I can take on days off to slow the thoughts, lessen the heavy blow, curve 'withdraw'? Whats up with the heavy flow of intrusive thoughts all of a sudden after stopping the Klon? Brains so broken.

 

[cdin]

got a lot going on there. benzo withdrawal is a well horrible situation and it can be dangerous if not done right, Sadly if you have been rxd this over a long period of time,
it doing MORE damage to your gaba receptorors. I would advise you to work with your doctor if possible and find a a tapering shcedule that is doable.

 

[cdin]

and yeah - i just went thru the hell myself. The brain broken feeling is NOT permanent but it is persistent and will tag along for quite a while, it gets better, but it is slow going. I do promise you that it does get better though. your brain is not stuck this way forever -- but you do need to understand this is a process that takes anywhere from a couple of weeks to 9 mos/a year. my first time off a long usage habit, i really started to feel better at about the 9 month point. I truly had given up and just thought "this is how life is now" but i was wrong. Recovery is possible, you just have to take it slow getting off and be ready for a long, shitty time. But when you do get better, it is so goddamn worth it.
Please, please, please have your doctor on board with everything you do. you are not nor are we physicians, no one can advise you better than your doctor (I had to learn the hard way to be honest with them). Benzo withdrawals, along with alcohol are unique in that they pose genuine physical and neurotoxic damage risk. if you are having severe shakes, sweating, psychosis, seizure etc it is NOT safe and you should be more thoroughly medicated. Once again, my heart goes out. Benzo WD sucks.

 

[kamikaz3]

and yeah - i just went thru the hell myself. The brain broken feeling is NOT permanent but it is persistent and will tag along for quite a while, it gets better, but it is slow going. I do promise you that it does get better though. your brain is not stuck this way forever -- but you do need to understand this is a process that takes anywhere from a couple of weeks to 9 mos/a year. my first time off a long usage habit, i really started to feel better at about the 9 month point. I truly had given up and just thought "this is how life is now" but i was wrong. Recovery is possible, you just have to take it slow getting off and be ready for a long, shitty time. But when you do get better, it is so goddamn worth it.
Please, please, please have your doctor on board with everything you do. you are not nor are we physicians, no one can advise you better than your doctor (I had to learn the hard way to be honest with them). Benzo withdrawals, along with alcohol are unique in that they pose genuine physical and neurotoxic damage risk. if you are having severe shakes, sweating, psychosis, seizure etc it is NOT safe and you should be more thoroughly medicated. Once again, my heart goes out. Benzo WD sucks.

This is what im afraid of :-/ Huge love sent your way for fighting through it! Doc just prescribed this regimen 2 months ago but I can already see where the days off of it may pose as 'the bad days' we were initially trying to treat in the first place. Blah!! Before we were treating it with adder, ambi3n, and loraz. Handful of anxiety attacks, LOW mood during times of low estrogen, MAYBE 3 hours of sleep at night. Even asked doc "isnt the klon just going to fry my brain and give me Alzhiemers someday!?" They laughed and said No! Hmmm It feels comforting having a community to vent to. Sh!ts frustrating!

 

[cdin]

This is what im afraid of :-/ Huge love sent your way for fighting through it! Doc just prescribed this regimen 2 months ago but I can already see where the days off of it may pose as 'the bad days' we were initially trying to treat in the first place. Blah!! Before we were treating it with adder, ambi3n, and loraz. Handful of anxiety attacks, LOW mood during times of low estrogen, MAYBE 3 hours of sleep at night. Even asked doc "isnt the klon just going to fry my brain and give me Alzhiemers someday!?" They laughed and said No! Hmmm It feels comforting having a community to vent to. Sh!ts frustrating!

they laughed at you? that is literally what they are doing If i had a doc that displayed that level of lack of knowledge, i would fire them, and hire a new doctor.

 

[AlsoTapered]

If it's 0.5mg tablets, not more than tice a week (because you NEED it), if it's lack of sleep for days, take a single 2mg.

Respect clonazepam, it will harm you.

If you don't have some left at the end of the month and you tried really hard, the doctor will be OK but I would drag in the few I had left every month.... and after 12 months the doctor was happy to give more. I said no.

Clonazepam causes liver damage.... and gets you hooked.

Excercise,
Eat well,
Sleep well,
Avoid alcohol

Consider every unused pill a victory.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

Whats up with the heavy flow of intrusive thoughts all of a sudden after stopping the Klon?

some of the shittiest tolerance and withdrawal mechanics you could imagine

 

[AlsoTapered]

some of the shittiest tolerance and withdrawal mechanics you could imagine

SO true

Why do you think flunitrazolam worries me? 2 steps from commercially available compounds and yep - 20-somethings who swore they would never get a opioid habit will need a $10 1.25mg tablet 3 times a day.

 

[MedicinalUser247]

Well... Its funny because Benzos like Clonazepam and and other long acting ones like chlordiazepoxide are supposed to be the longest acting and least addictive and best to reduce anxiety compared to other short acting ones such as alprozolam, midozolam and lorazepam. If you were on one of those it would be harder to get off of. If you don't want to be on it ask your doctor and you'll probably be able to get off it. Depending on what you doctor thinks.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Diclazepam is the longest acting,

I am surprised that nobody has N0methylated phenazepam to produce phenetazepam which seems legal almost everywhere and is identical to diclazepam. I mean, phenazepam is still turning up is it not?

 

[Dextro .45]

I absolutely LOVE Diclazepam (2-Chloro-Diazepam) which was synthesized by the same chemist who made Diazepam (Valium) and Clonazepam (Klonopin)

Although an analog to Diazepam (Valium), Diclazepam is nothing like it (in a way)

Diclazepam is a pro-drug that metabolizes into 3 licensed pharmaceutical benzodiazepine medicines currently on the market. It’s most significant active metabolite is Delorazepam (licensed in Italy) which is a potent anxiolytic with a VERY long half-life and duration of action….further metabolizing into Lorazepam (Ativan) also a highly regarded potent anxiolytic benzodiazepine.

1mg of Diclazepam >Delorazepam >>Lorazepam (Ativan) 200 hour half-life

Google it and read up, there is a very interesting chart made up of its active metabolites, half-life and duration of action, etc.

I have 300-450 tablets of genuine pharmaceutical Canadian APOTEX Diazepam 10mg tablets and a large quantity of highly pure Diclazepam 2,000mg + ……both of these benzodiazepine meds are HIGHLY desirable, extremely potent & effective anxiolytic meds with prominent muscle relaxant properties

Alprazolam (Xanax) 2mg bars are no doubt the “SH$T” in the U.S. for abuse potential, dopamine release, great to combine with Dexedrine 15mg / Adderall 30mg & OxyContin 40-80mg

Xanax 2mg bar
Dexedrine 15mg
OxyContin 40mg

……Damn son, I’d be LIT on that cocktail back in my low tolerance days

The dopaminergic stimulant & opioid euphoric ecstasy with a Xanax bar would have you LIT like a Christmas tree lol. Damn I love customizing hybrid oral Brompton Cocktails

 

[AlsoTapered]

Diclazepam is a pro-drug that metabolizes into 3 licensed pharmaceutical benzodiazepine medicines currently on the market.

DIclazepam ITSELF is more active than any of it's metabolites. It didn't make it to market because the T½ of diclazepam taken with the various T½s of it's metabolites means that if you took it ONCE A WEEK the level of parent and metabolites in your body would gradually increase.

The Japanese went with fludiazepam because it's just as potent but the parent and active metabolites have shorter T½s.

Trust me on this one -I 'rediscovered' it in 2012 or 2013 (I forget which) and bitterly regret that I ever handed over the list of precursors and facile syntheses to a team who actually made it.

 

[Dextro .45]

Yes, yes…..Significant accumulation can/will occur while taking Diclazepam daily, even at 1mg daily….which could lead to dangerous levels of active metabolites in the CNS/bloodstream

It takes a solid 3 hours for peak plasma levels (1-3h) and I believe Delorazepam has 87h half-life which peaks at 48h / 2 days …..Lorazepam can be detected 19 days after first dose of Diclazepam 1mg dose

Diazepam 10mg has a fast onset of action 1h, also a very long half-life and duration of action but is more pleasurable and significantly greater muscle relaxation and psychological anxiolytic properties

Valium & Ativan are actually the 2 most commonly used benzodiazepine meds used in ER / hospital settings, rapidly sedating violent & aggressive patients, mostly IM injection at first ….then when sedated and relaxed on bed, an IV injection could be ideal

And WOW….it sounds like you are on a totally different level. Like you’re having particular molecules synthesized by a professional pharmaceutical laboratory. Very interesting indeed.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

If it's 0.5mg tablets, not more than tice a week (because you NEED it), if it's lack of sleep for days, take a single 2mg.

Respect clonazepam, it will harm you.

If you don't have some left at the end of the month and you tried really hard, the doctor will be OK but I would drag in the few I had left every month.... and after 12 months the doctor was happy to give more. I said no.

Clonazepam causes liver damage.... and gets you hooked.

Excercise,
Eat well,
Sleep well,
Avoid alcohol

Consider every unused pill a victory.

Liver damage from clonazepam is highly unlikely.
So just the blanket statement "clonazepam causes liver damage" is not true.

"Clonazepam, as with other benzodiazepines, is rarely associated with serum ALT elevations, and clinically apparent liver injury from clonazepam is extremely rare. "

Clonazepam - LiverTox - NCBI Bookshelf

It also took me over 10+ years of using clonazepam on & off before I ever felt "hooked".
Now I'll get extreme rebound anxiety for a day or two if I try to go without it.
But point being, not everyone is going to get hooked on benzos. I actually hate the way benzos feel most of the time. Although they are life savers to have around in case of a panic attack or an overwhelmingly anxiety-provoking situation. Duration & dose can play a major factor when it comes to having negative withdrawl symptoms from clonazepam.


@kamikaz3
Since everyone's too busy telling you how evil clonazepam is & derailing the thread, I'll give you actual things you can use on your off days..
Stuff like chamomile & kava are mild sedatives shown to interact with a lot of the same GABA systems as benzos. So these could help chill you out on the days you don't take your clonazepam. A strong cup of chamomile can definitely help. Chamomile has apigenin in it, which you can also get in supplement form.

"Chamomile is widely regarded as a mild tranquillizer and sleep-inducer. Sedative effects may be due to the flavonoid, apigenin that binds to benzodiazepine receptors in the brain"

Chamomile: A herbal medicine of the past with bright future

Chamomile is one of the most ancient medicinal herbs known to mankind. It is a member of Asteraceae/Compositae family and represented by two common varieties viz. German Chamomile (Chamomilla recutita) and Roman Chamomile (Chamaemelum nobile). The dried ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You could also use valerian root.
And you could also try taking incredibly small dosages of your klonopin on off days. Klonopin is pretty potent & even 0.25mg is active in some one without a tolerance or who does not use it everyday. If you have a legit anxiety disorder, don't let these people scare you off of your clonazepam if it helps you. Only people who abuse benzos in ridiculous amounts are the ones who end up with the worst problems & regret taking them. My mom was on clonazepam for 30 years. Along with multiple of my friends & including myself for the past 7 years. So I've had a lot of experience with it & various other benzos.

 

[AlsoTapered]

And WOW….it sounds like you are on a totally different level. Like you’re having particular molecules synthesized by a professional pharmaceutical laboratory. Very interesting indeed.

It was my job. Pyrazolam, Diphenidine & U-47700 are some other things I either rediscovered or just searched the patents. The only real work was finding vendors of the precursors and providing the team with at least two facile routes (so they would be sure to have at least 1 good route).

It's not like I'm the only person here who designed RCs. MXE is the work of a BL as is MDPV.

We ALL ended up having break downs for one reason or another.... although usually because we felt that self-testing to the extreme was the ethical thing to do.

Diphenidine is actually good if you snort it, but people were eating it and i have no idea why. Snorted it's onset is quick and duration not too long and well defined.

I'm NOT proud of this. When U-47700 was sold as powder (against my express instructions) people got hurt and I had a massive break down and quit,

 

[kamikaz3]

Liver damage from clonazepam is highly unlikely.
So just the blanket statement "clonazepam causes liver damage" is not true.

"Clonazepam, as with other benzodiazepines, is rarely associated with serum ALT elevations, and clinically apparent liver injury from clonazepam is extremely rare. "

Clonazepam - LiverTox - NCBI Bookshelf

It also took me over 10+ years of using clonazepam on & off before I ever felt "hooked".
Now I'll get extreme rebound anxiety for a day or two if I try to go without it.
But point being, not everyone is going to get hooked on benzos. I actually hate the way benzos feel most of the time. Although they are life savers to have around in case of a panic attack or an overwhelmingly anxiety-provoking situation. Duration & dose can play a major factor when it comes to having negative withdrawl symptoms from clonazepam.


@kamikaz3
Since everyone's too busy telling you how evil clonazepam is & derailing the thread, I'll give you actual things you can use on your off days..
Stuff like chamomile & kava are mild sedatives shown to interact with a lot of the same GABA systems as benzos. So these could help chill you out on the days you don't take your clonazepam. A strong cup of chamomile can definitely help. Chamomile has apigenin in it, which you can also get in supplement form.

"Chamomile is widely regarded as a mild tranquillizer and sleep-inducer. Sedative effects may be due to the flavonoid, apigenin that binds to benzodiazepine receptors in the brain"

Chamomile: A herbal medicine of the past with bright future

Chamomile is one of the most ancient medicinal herbs known to mankind. It is a member of Asteraceae/Compositae family and represented by two common varieties viz. German Chamomile (Chamomilla recutita) and Roman Chamomile (Chamaemelum nobile). The dried ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You could also use valerian root.
And you could also try taking incredibly small dosages of your klonopin on off days. Klonopin is pretty potent & even 0.25mg is active in some one without a tolerance or who does not use it everyday. If you have a legit anxiety disorder, don't let these people scare you off of your clonazepam if it helps you. Only people who abuse benzos in ridiculous amounts are the ones who end up with the worst problems & regret taking them. My mom was on clonazepam for 30 years. Along with multiple of my friends & including myself for the past 7 years. So I've had a lot of experience with it & various other benzos.

Have you or mom had memory impairment at all? Just curious. This stuff scares the hell out of me, but on the flipsyde getting a full night sleep and no anxiety attacks as been kind of a god send. Better of 2 evils i supose.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Have you or mom had memory impairment at all? Just curious. This stuff scares the hell out of me, but on the flipsyde getting a full night sleep and no anxiety attacks as been kind of a god send. Better of 2 evils i supose.

Oh yes.
Memory impairment is definitely something to watch out for.
In my 20's, I would use my moms klonopin whenever I had a panic attack or really really needed one.
But I hated the zombified feeling from them & never took them recreationally or habitually.
But I watched my mom & several people I knew who took klonopin every day & their memories were absolute garbage some days.
It wasn't until I got on klonopin & had to start taking it all the time too that I noticed this in myself. But it hasn't been as terrible as I've seen in other people.
At least not to a point where I would never take a klonopin again.
And as long as you're using klonopin 'as needed', I don't think the memory impairment is going to be very prominent. And it's not permanent.
It's more of an issue for older people & people who abuse klonopin or mix it with alcohol.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I was prescribed clonazepam for epilepsy for years. I also hated the memory loss, zombification and mood-swings. Luckily in the UK clobazam is an option. Clobazam is actually a good anxiolytic but isn't used for such purposes.

 

[sekio]

Metabolism of this compound has been assessed, revealing diclazepam has an approximate elimination half-life of 42 hours and undergoes N-demethylation to delorazepam, which can be detected in urine for 6 days following administration of the parent compound. Other metabolites detected were lorazepam and lormetazepam which were detectable in urine for 19 and 11 days, respectively,

Jesus. Take one dose and you're pissing hot for benzos for 3 weeks.

Diphenidine is actually good if you snort it, but people were eating it and i have no idea why. Snorted it's onset is quick and duration not too long and well defined.

I actually plugged the stuff as a heated semi-suspension in water (also methoxphenidine) and it seemed to work brilliantly.

I ordinarily dislike benzos a lot (mostly because I'm not a very anxious individual) but I do take 0.5mg clonazepam twice daily for spasticity, in addition to the Herculean broadside of other drugs.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I actually plugged the stuff as a heated semi-suspension in water (also methoxphenidine) and it seemed to work brilliantly.

Try isophenidine. Different to but as worthwhile as MXE. Methoxyphenidine I had no part in - they wanted to add a halo but couldn't work out how to. I read it killed a few people... so I'm doubly annoyed that a safe design was corrupted.

Also and without a shadow of a doubt the cheapest and simplest NMDA antagonist/DRI every accidentally discovered.