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  • EADD Moderators: axe battler | Pissed_and_messed

Ketamine - "I lost my house, my job, my car - don't do drugs"

Yeah ketamine addiction can be absolutely terrible. I know of a lot of people addicted to the "techno smack", they'll rack up 1g lines like it's nothing whilst crying in pain cos of their fucked bladders. Incontinent, or unable to piss yet feeling like they're absolutely bursting. Really fucks with their heads too. Sounds so nasty. It's never been my thing.
 
There was some debate as to MXE being safer. I think it's likely true for a number of reasons:

1) O-demethylation offers less of the unchanged drug entering the bladder.
2) N-Deethylation occurs faster than N-demethylation so less unchanged drug entering the body.
3) Because MXE is so much more potent, their is less drug involved.

I was of the first people to be a lab rat for MXE, MDPV & desoxypipradrol... I only REALLY liked the MXE.
 
He still pops in but he doesn't post as much.

He's going through some stuff so I presume that is taking away his time.

I'm still waiting for the signed photograph of F&B au naturel i.e. 60 YO hippy in camo.
 
fastandbulbous said:
No recorded damage to human bladders. The doses they gave t lab rats (fucking rediculous doses. Look up chinese trial. Govt. sponsered hit job on mxe)
Click to expand...

I get you mean not recorded in the scientific literature.. but like, you're talking to a damaged human bladder.

Bluelight anecdotes have been quoted in the scientific literature about ketamine too, you know. It's an Open Science trend that will continue as long as there is a replication crisis to deal with. Because every counterweight to scientists misaligning their agendas with the common good is sorely needed.
 
For a long time it was thought to be a metabolite but it's not, it's the actual ketamine reaching the bladder.

As I said, MXE has a convenient methoxy moiety which when deprotected will form an ester with the myriad of acids that occur naturally in the bladder.

F&B is a pretty skilled expert on animal models.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Ketamine-derived designer drug methoxetamine: metabolism including isoenzyme kinetics and toxicological detectability using GC-MS and LC-(HR-)MSn - PubMed

Methoxetamine (MXE; 2-(3-methoxyphenyl)-2-(N-ethylamino)-cyclohexanone), a ketamine analog, is a new designer drug and synthesized for its longer lasting and favorable pharmacological effects over ketamine. The aims of the presented study were to identify the phases I and II metabolites of MXE...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

As long as you aren't using much and often, my best guess is MXE is safer... not necessarily SAFE (people do dangerous stuff on that class of compound) but safer.

I might add that their is a UK patent I posted somewhere which is for 5-methoxy ketamine. Usually a patent tries to cover as many compounds as possible but this was for just 1 which would have made it very costly. So I wonder WHY they felt the need to patent that 1 compound as soon as they could and also patent it in the UK. My guess is so their US competitors wouldn't spot it. I had to search 111 patents to find it.... which kind of shows you how empty my life is.
 
Empty? I don't know, you're filling it with interesting stuff there.

So it's the ester formation that causes the relative safety of MXE?

AlsoTapered said:
For a long time it was thought to be a metabolite but it's not, it's the actual ketamine reaching the bladder.
Click to expand...

Are you saying it's ketamine that does the damage rather than norketamine? I find that hard to believe. I can't think of an arylcyclohexylamine for which first-pass metabolism doesn't experientially increase renal load per weight of substance consumed.
 
Chris Timothy said:
Are you saying it's ketamine that does the damage rather than norketamine? I find that hard to believe. I can't think of an arylcyclohexylamine for which first-pass metabolism doesn't experientially increase renal load per weight of substance consumed.
Click to expand...

I was also very surprised but a researcher assured me that it was the case.. I'm sorry I don't have a reference for you as you know how hot I am at providing reference but it was at Lifeline Publications. I DID look for reference for you.

I think it's because the ketone moiety allows ketamine to be removed by the kidneys whereas with most drugs only a tiny fraction is excreted unchanged...well, those with secondary amines (the most basic amine).

If you find a reference proving me right or wrong, I would be pleased to read either.
 
Thanks for the effort. I don't know how hot your are at providing reference, I rarely pay visit outside of PD on bluelight.

My chemistry knowledge is autodidact, I'm having trouble understanding you. It doesn't help that you leave my question hanging there!

You think it's because of the ketone moiety? But then you go on comparing ketamine with all the other drugs. I was comparing ketamine with norketamine, who share that ketone moiety, right?

You're confusing me, but obviously it's worth trying to bridge the language gap between chemists and multidisciplinarians.
 
Sorry - I was explaining why ketamine can reach the bladder. The ketone. The underlying cause of the damage is well studied but I cannot find an example of anyone just introducing ketamine directly into the bladder of a test animal. It's a form of cystitis and as you know, lowering the pH of the fluid in the bladder is HOW you treat cystitis so a secondary amine raising it.....
 
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This guy was doing 7-14g's per day, thats insane.

Mean i hammer alot of Dissos but ive never even come close to a habit like that. If he was snorting it , what a huge volume of powder to put up your nose everyday. Even when i sniff 2-3 grams in a night it starts fucking with my sinuses pretty badly. Its why i love MXE and family, you can plug them for great effects.
 
People are aware that while (S) ketamine is an NMDA antagonist but (R) ketamine is a DRI like cocaine. I don't think ANYONE has carried out trials to see if (S) ketamine causes less compulsive use that the racemate. I've tried (R) ketamine and didn't like it... just like I don't like cocaine.
 
AlsoTapered said:
People are aware that while (S) ketamine is an NMDA antagonist but (R) ketamine is a DRI like cocaine. I don't think ANYONE has carried out trials to see if (S) ketamine causes less compulsive use that the racemate. I've tried (R) ketamine and didn't like it... just like I don't like cocaine.
Click to expand...

cocaine is like a paper skin cut

feels similar to being watched by nobody.

ketamine is a veterinary drug for horses.

U want drugs, there's morphine..

when I was out on hills to brush the night away one day, in a November me OD from morphine and no brain trauma from this stunt.

But there's a ! that ketamine was replaced of LSD shortage in Europe back in 2010 «

i had friends in one of those nights that beg me like a bullet in a gun for more morphine bc special K divorced them from their body index status.
 
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