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Juries are 'unsympathetic' to women who claim rape after drunken binge

fruitfly

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Oct 28, 2003
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Juries are reluctant to convict men of rape in cases where the alleged victim has been drinking, research published today suggests.

They appear to believe that it is reasonable for a man to assume that a woman’s silence amounts to consent, even if it is due to her intoxication. Even if a woman’s drink has been spiked, they are reluctant to find a defendant guilty of rape.

The findings suggest that juries, as much as the Crown Prosecution Service or police, are responsible for the low rate of rape convictions. Fewer than 6 per cent of rape allegations result in successful convictions.

Efforts by the Government to boost the conviction rate in rape cases appears to have had no effect on the way that jurors view alleged rapists.

Legislation passed in 2003 changed the law in England and Wales so that a defendant had to prove that he “reasonably” believed that a woman had agreed to sex. Previously, he had to “honestly” believe that she had consented. The move was heralded as a significant tightening of the law. Government law officers are now considering proposals to strengthen the law by rewording the definition of capacity to consent.

But research funded by the Economic and Social Research Council found that jurors often take the view that silence represents sexual consent.

Actors and barristers took the main roles in 75-minute “trials” that were conducted before juries which then had their 90-minute deliberations recorded and analysed.

The research, conducted with simulated juries because of the prohibition on jury research, also indicated that juries hold a drunken victim partially responsible for what happens.

This is either because she accepted drinks from the defendant, failed to stand her ground against pressure to drink more or did not take adequate care to ensure that her drinks were not spiked.

Even when a woman had unknowingly consumed a spiked drink, juries were reluctant to convict defendants of rape, unless they were convinced that the drink had been spiked with the specific intention of sexual assault, as opposed to “loosening up” a reluctant partner.

Another finding was that jurors were less inclined to see “taking advantage” of a drunken woman as rape in situations where the woman’s normal behaviour was to drink heavily in the company of men.

By contrast, where the drug Rohypnol had been used, jurors were more inclined to hold the defendant responsible for rape, even if the effect of the drug was the same as if a woman were very drunk.

Dr Vanessa Munro, of King’s College, London, who conducted the research with Dr Emily Finch, of the University of East Anglia, said: “These findings reflect the hold that gender stereotypes still have. They suggest that ‘rape myths’ can have a profound influence upon jurors.”

This month Jonathan Hagan was cleared of raping an undergraduate after a freshers’ party at the University of Nottingham, where he was student union president. The girl said that she was so drunk that she could remember nothing more than Hagan removing her underwear before she passed out.

The Forensic Science Service has detected the presence of alcohol in 81 per cent of samples taken from victims of sexual assault, with 60 per cent of those at levels of twice the drink-drive threshold.

The majority of convicted rapists have also drunk alcohol in the six hours preceding the alleged assault, research has shown.

From sex crime to 'no crime'

5.7% of rape allegations lead to an offender being convicted

14,449 rapes of males and females were reported to police in 2005-06 but of these, only 818 resulted in convictions in the 2005 calendar year

2 in three reported cases drop out at the police stage

25% of those recorded as rapes end up deemed “no crime”

50% of all those that are deemed crimes lead to “no further action” by police
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Juries are 'unsympathetic' to women who claim rape after drunken binge
By Frances Gibb, The Times Legal Editor
December 7, 2006


Link
 
It's unfortunate, but I think the lesson to take from this is that if you're a woman at a bar, don't allow a man to buy you drink after drink after drink unless you eventually intend to have sex with him. Not to say it's the woman's fault by any means, but I do think that in many cases the victim could have been and should have been more cautious. I still think it's terrible that this type of predatory behavior is so accepted; evidenced by the presence of so many "meat market" type drinking establishments. It's just because there's so many gross dudes out there that can't get laid otherwise.
 
im glad there try to make the law harder on ppl who date rape ppl..thats a horrible thing, and makes drugs seem more evil..i hate when ppl ruin a drug for everyone else
 
If I buy a bitch 3 drink I am expecting someting in return. I would never intentionally rape anyone but by the same token I am entirely unsympathetic of most women claiming rape. 9 out of 10 times it is just for attention or out of spite.
 
Roger&Me said:
It's unfortunate, but I think the lesson to take from this is that if you're a woman at a bar, don't allow a man to buy you drink after drink after drink unless you eventually intend to have sex with him. Not to say it's the woman's fault by any means, but I do think that in many cases the victim could have been and should have been more cautious. I still think it's terrible that this type of predatory behavior is so accepted; evidenced by the presence of so many "meat market" type drinking establishments. It's just because there's so many gross dudes out there that can't get laid otherwise.

+1

"The message you have entered is too short", etc.
 
The stats in the article are kind of poorly done. Since 2/3 of accusations are dropped at "the police stage" then the number of convictions vs accusations that go to court is actually ~17%.

Its also no great surprise that drinking a lot results in a jury not believing the accusation. It is not that they accepted drinks from the defendant but rather that their recollection of events is considered unreliable because they were drunk. It opens up a lot of doubt as to whether there was consent, what exactly went on etc.

Juries are also unsympathetic to people who put themselves in bad situations by being very drunk or drugged. Rapes have always been hard to prosecute for many reasons, most often because most victims know their attackers (at least briefly), therefore it must be proven that the victim did not consent.

Also despite media hype, the actual use of "date rape drugs" is very rare, a study in Australia showed that the vast majority of women who believed they had been drugged, had really just consumed a lot of alcohol.
 
theWorldWithin said:
If I buy a bitch 3 drink I am expecting someting in return. I would never intentionally rape anyone but by the same token I am entirely unsympathetic of most women claiming rape. 9 out of 10 times it is just for attention or out of spite.

Although date rape is very serious, I tend to agree with this opinion (ie. that many "rape" claims have nothing to do with rape)
 
WE REALSIE THIS IS A SENSITIVE TOPIC, BUT PLEASE NOTE: ANY POSTS VIOLATING FORUM GUIDELINES OR BLUA WILL BE REPORTED AND POSTERS WILL BE WARNED, PLEASE PLAY NICE ;)

We don't need to invade America. We just have to make them all e-tarded!
 
theWorldWithin said:
If I buy a bitch 3 drink I am expecting someting in return. I would never intentionally rape anyone but by the same token I am entirely unsympathetic of most women claiming rape. 9 out of 10 times it is just for attention or out of spite.

Pardon for asking, but is there some unwritten social contract I am unaware of that if you buy a girl 3 drinks she's supposed to have sex with you ? WTF

8(

We don't need to invade America. We just have to make them all e-tarded!
 
Facekhan said:
The stats in the article are kind of poorly done. Since 2/3 of accusations are dropped at "the police stage" then the number of convictions vs accusations that go to court is actually ~17%.

Its also no great surprise that drinking a lot results in a jury not believing the accusation. It is not that they accepted drinks from the defendant but rather that their recollection of events is considered unreliable because they were drunk. It opens up a lot of doubt as to whether there was consent, what exactly went on etc.

Juries are also unsympathetic to people who put themselves in bad situations by being very drunk or drugged. Rapes have always been hard to prosecute for many reasons, most often because most victims know their attackers (at least briefly), therefore it must be proven that the victim did not consent.

Also despite media hype, the actual use of "date rape drugs" is very rare, a study in Australia showed that the vast majority of women who believed they had been drugged, had really just consumed a lot of alcohol.

By your reasoning we should be greatful our rape laws are not as bad as in some islamic countires, where you need 4 WITNESSES to prove you were raped.

We don't need to invade America. We just have to make them all e-tarded!
 
If the key witness to any other type of crime was smashed when the crime was committed, the jury would likely be "unsympathetic" to their testimony as well.
 
I know this article isn't really about this quote but I wanted to say something about it.

fruitfly said:
They appear to believe that it is reasonable for a man to assume that a woman’s silence amounts to consent, even if it is due to her intoxication.

Remaining silent DOES equal consent. No means no but silence really means nothing. Ladies if you are ever being raped or don't want someone to have sex with you please speak up and say no, don't go and press charges later. No one can read minds.
 
Anyone who has to Intentionally drug a women to take have sex with them is a loser. But You cannot claim rape just because a guy dosen't ring you the next day ether, your just as bigger a loser.
 
What a bunch of pigs. 3 drinks and you think that allows you fuck someone. You freak.
 
"9 out of 10 times it is just for attention or out of spite."

Although of course I am sympathetic to actual rape cases, but my last girlfriend cheated on my while drunk, then tried to claim it was rape. I'm extremely doubtful of any drunk person's excuse unless it involves "I got too wasted and did a bunch of careless shit".


"They appear to believe that it is reasonable for a man to assume that a woman’s silence amounts to consent, even if it is due to her intoxication."

If a girl is so wasted she is completely silent while we sex, it's time to stop fucking her. Chances are she doesn't know what's going on, and that's no state to be fucked. Of course I would try asking before calling it quits :)
 
>>If a girl is so wasted she is completely silent while we sex, it's time to stop fucking her>>

silence here means saying neither 'yes' nor 'no'

it's not like sex goes like.. 'wanna do it?' 'yes' 'so you consent right' 'mmm..yeah i consent to having sex'
 
"wanna do it?' 'yes' 'so you consent right' 'mmm..yeah i consent to having sex'"

I agree, of course it's not like that.

What I mean is, it's incredibly easy to make sure she is into it. Whisper something like "you're sure you wanna do this?" or whatever. How is it not obvious if a girl wants to go or not? It seems someone would have to be pretty fucked up if they are just lying there neutral.
 
Legislation passed in 2003 changed the law in England and Wales so that a defendant had to prove that he “reasonably” believed that a woman had agreed to sex. Previously, he had to “honestly” believe that she had consented. The move was heralded as a significant tightening of the law. Government law officers are now considering proposals to strengthen the law by rewording the definition of capacity to consent.

Seems soon you'll need to prove it wasn't rape rather than prove it was. Sorry but innocent until proven guilty is the correct way. While I certainly sympathise with the victims moving the goal posts to ensure more convictions is wrong.

Same with these new laws on drugs where any more than ~10 pills and you are automatically a dealer (intent to supply) without any evidence whatsoever except the fact you have ten pills. Ludicrous!
 
Sexual assault is a particularly difficult area of the criminal law, because of the great evidentiary issues associated with proving consent or lack thereof. It is further compounded by juries that are, to be blunt, constituted by fucking retards (such as in the study), who believe such things as that consent can be imputed to a woman who dresses or acts 'provocatively', for that reason alone. The solution is not, however, to abandon principle and to prescribe objective standards and to put the onus of proof upon a defendant. That is utterly repugnant to one of the most fundamental principles of the common law.

Perhaps there is no solution which adequately strikes a balance between protection of actual or potential victims and an accused. Perhaps a balancing process is entirely inappropriate and the presumption of innocence should not be disturbed at all, for it begs the question to give evidentiary advantage to the prosecution who have not yet shown, in a court of law, that the alleged victim was in fact a victim. It is an intractable, if not insuperable, dilemma.

yummy22 said:
Remaining silent DOES equal consent. No means no but silence really means nothing. Ladies if you are ever being raped or don't want someone to have sex with you please speak up and say no, don't go and press charges later. No one can read minds.

It equals no such thing. Silence is equally consistent with the will being overborne by threat or by duress; with fraud or mistake; or with submission by intimidation or coercion. What would you say to a woman who was repeatedly assaulted by several men over the course of a few hours, but who said nothing out of sheer terror or the total destruction of her will? That she consented? That scenario is unusual but not infrequent.
 
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