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Isnt "bad trip" just a severe panic attack, experienced during the psychedelic trip?

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Renald

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Isnt "bad trip" just a severe panic attack, experienced during the psychedelic trip?

I have never used psychedelics/dissociatives in doses, which allowed me to trip. Despite this I had several low dose ketamine/DXM/ephenidine experiences which I could call bad "trips" (surely, it was no trip, just a slightly altered state of consciousness), and all these experiences were anxious and ended with full blown panic attack. My thoughts are, maybe what psychonauts call "bad trip" is just a full blown panic attack, which is experienced when under the influence of drugs? Due to it is experienced on drugs, it is felt different as typical "sober" panic attack. From my experience full blown panic attack even when you are sober is very "bad trip", the only possible difference you can use your non altered consciousness during it to control it (if the panic itself does not change the consciousness to the severely altered state).
 
For me yes it's a severe panic attack that is almost uncontrollable, feeling like your heart is going to seize up etc. Nothing like a panic attack when I'm sober, which usually I can fix by getting to somewhere by myself where I can breath and concentrate, which I couldn't hardly do on psychedelics. Maybe with time though..


For me it mostly has to do with what is going on in my life at the time, my mindset, etc..


I've only experienced high dose psilocybin and lsd for my trips. I had a bad trip on 8g of psilocybin only because I smoked far too much potent weed during the come up.
 
I would say yes. Bad trips just tend to be in mind. Remember mind over matter, Try lower doses, use a trip sitter, be in a positive state of mind before you trip and have a positive and safe setting, lastly, remember im just on the drug I will come down.
 
If all else fails youtube soothing videos. It actually helped me before lmao. Felt lame as fuck the next day though, laying in my bed watching waterfalls....
 
No. A bad trip may have far more in common with temporary psychosis than a panic attack, which is not psychosis.
 
Can you have a bad trip with no anxiety/panic? As a person never had psychotic episode, I am not able to realize, what do the user/patient feel during the psychosis. Is it worse as extreme panic?
 
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Now you can over dose which can be dangerous. That's something to be worried about.
 
Renald said:
Can you have a bad trip with no anxiety/panic? As a person never had psychotic episode, I am not able to realize, what do the user/patient feel during the psychosis. Is it worse as extreme panic?
Click to expand...

Yes you can have a bad trip with no anxiety. Psychosis is a loss with reality far, far beyond even an extreme panic attack. And I'm not belittling panic attacks.
 
For me a bad means being confronted with a lot of negative emotions without the provisioning of any ways to solve the underlying issues, it feels like constantly being mocked by the substance (' entity). For me it is certainly not a panic attack, because I can be physically calm while being emotionally completely destabilized. Furthermore it is no problem to be emotionally disturbed, when at some point of the trip, there is a hint of acceptance or closure of the issues. In that case, it is no bad trip, just a typical one.

I only had bad trips with 4-Aco-DMT and on no other psychedelic. Perhaps it had impurities or my set and setting was subpar. Or the dose was too low, but seemed very strong, so I doubt it.
 
I'm not sure what the cause of a bad trip is, panic is probably the main reason, but I do feel that people use the phrase "bad trip" for experiences that are merely difficult, sometimes extremely difficult, but after experiencing a true bad trip once I never use that phrase that easily anymore.

I once experienced such extreme paranoia that I was convinced that I was murdered and had to relive the moment of my actual murder in order for my soul to find peace and move on, I thought my spirit was still wandering around in this realm unaware of it's death, I saw stab wounds appear and disappear on my stomach, blood pouring from the wounds, heard footsteps closing in on me without anyone being around, my heart never beat so damn fast before, it was one of the most traumatizing events in my life.

That was on LSD and at a party with some people I didn't knew well enough to trip with, my own fault I guess, but still.
 
Kinda.. but a 'panic attack experienced during' trip makes it sound like they are separate from each other... in a bad trip I think cause and effect are not that clear and bad thoughts / bad feelings can feed off each other and spiral.

Often panic about not being able to 'get away' from the effects as much as is normally possible with things soberly perceived (that might I clarify normally aren't as mind-manifested) is a result of the trip... that is one of the many examples of how the trip causes the bad trip starting and the consequences being fed back back to you a few times...

Sure after a few 'cycles' you may arrive at the point you can certainly call panic, but it's not like a separately occurring panic attack that makes the trip bad. It's intertwined.
 
I think a lot of trips that people call "bad" are just panic attacks, yeah. Panic attacks have an amazing ability to fool you into thinking that you're physically dying when it's all in your head.
 
Solipsis said:
Kinda.. but a 'panic attack experienced during' trip makes it sound like they are separate from each other... in a bad trip I think cause and effect are not that clear and bad thoughts / bad feelings can feed off each other and spiral.

Often panic about not being able to 'get away' from the effects as much as is normally possible with things soberly perceived (that might I clarify normally aren't as mind-manifested) is a result of the trip... that is one of the many examples of how the trip causes the bad trip starting and the consequences being fed back back to you a few times...

Sure after a few 'cycles' you may arrive at the point you can certainly call panic, but it's not like a separately occurring panic attack that makes the trip bad. It's intertwined.
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Good point. Panic is the result of not accepting the state quo of the mind or feeling self-pity for being responsible for one's own problems/mind state. :D

I have to add, that when a substance (in combination with set/setting) provides just purely negative experiences for one it is easier said than done, not trying to block the reception of signals from the drug. I have also the assumption, that I always underdosed 4-Aco-DMT, which lead to negative experiences, because blocking was still somewhat possible, but self-defeating as blocking always is. With DPT for example blocking is not really possible, although the atmosphere is generally not a happy one. You have to endure the experience as a kind of an observer.
 
No. Bad trips come in many varieties. If it's a trip and it's bad, it's a bad trip.
 
For me, a "bad" trip is when my mind doesn't co-operate with me, it thinks what it wants regardless of what I want it to think. It goes of on a tangent.
Which can make one panic, which makes the thought that much more powerful...it's like a loop.
The less you want to think about something the more you tend to think about it. And until you can just let go and say "fuck it" I, I don't care what you/I think it just gets worse.
So, if this sounds familiar then just remember to go with it and not fight it and before you know it's gone and the trip is good again.
It's easy to get caught up in the mindset, while tripping, that whatever you are thinking you will become or it will manifest itself and become permanent.
When/if this happens just go with it and don't fight it.
You're fighting your own mind and there are no winners in that fight.
Sometimes, especially if I am working out a problem, I will get an intrusive thought and if I dwell on it, it only makes it stronger,but if I just relax and sometimes say a little chant...like, "it's all good. it's all good it's all good.....my mind will forget what it was trying to do and I will be back in control.

Then again, maybe noone else feels this way and I'm just phuckingnutz...?

I have never had a whole trip be "bad", just bits and pieces and not all that often.
 
I have to agree with SHM. I have had three bad trips. They were not just difficult, it was a complete break with reality in which I saw myself, felt myself, and believed that I had been killed in many different ways. I ended up in the hospital. I believe there is a distinct difference between a bad trip and a difficult trip. Once you have had a bad trip, you will as bluemerlin stated, you will never say a difficult trip is a bad trip.
 
pretty much.

it's just a lot harder to get out of them due to the mindfuck.
 
Im not sure why but ive always been able to control my thoughts, even when they are forming negativity. Ive had quite a few difficult trips but none were bad.

I have watched my friends have bad trips tho, from what i saw it goes to a point of mimicing psychosis, like completely delusional etc.

Its scary stuff but idk, i find acid trains me to be more positive when im off it, because it makes you realise how detrimental negativity is to your lifestyle.
 
>mind over matter

i prefer matter over mind.

especially for curing psychedelic induced anxiety.
 
No. A panic attack is caused by adrenaline released when GABA is low due to an overactive frontal lobe amygdala and or hyperventilation.

Psychosis comes from an increase in dopamine. Psychedelics act on the serotonin receptors.

It would be possible to have a bad trip from a panic attack of stimulants, but you will not have a bad trip on psychs with a panic attack.

I am reminded of Art Linkletter. When his daughter committed suicide. A bad trip is when the effects express themselves in ways that your coping skills cannot handle.

It is possible to give someone a bad trip. The most basic way is to have them confront things that are difficult subjects normally while under the influence of looking at things in new ways. Trust me I've known plenty of bored chicks or junkies who love acid and shit.

A bad trip is technically not being able to integrate what you are experiencing into normal thought processes.

Being really scared once probably won't make someone kill themselves, but an existential crisis a year later may.

If you took too much, you overdosed. That's not a bad trip.

I am contradicting myself.

Honestly, the way you are describing a bad trip sounds analgous to getting tattoos or young girls cutting. Eh. :)
 
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