is this reality?

if the vast majority of the people on this earth have the basically the same perceptions of things they view, how then can there not be one basic reality? Reality may be based on perceptions, but if everyone has the same perceptions then that should be proof enough for everyone to see that this must be reality. If everyone sees the yellow ball as a yellow ball, all perceptions are the same, reality is the same for everyone.
 
U had a rather long post written out and it managed to get eaten by my browser. I'll put it here later...needless to say this is INDEED an excellent debate and is indicative of the reasons why we created this forum.
BRAVO!
 
OMG! I ALWAYS think about that!! I used to more when I was a little kid... But I'd always think to myself, "What if this isn't real? What if I'm gonna wake up soon and find out I'm really a princess, and this is all just a dream...." Crazy! But I used to love entertaining the thought!
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If I had MY way I'd have all of you SHOT!!
 
some other thoughts...
Fox/Flower do have a valid argument as i understand it.
(to me - oversimplified)they are saying the collection of forces that surround us become reality when they are experienced - therefore reality is a property of the individual. they purport that the individual can only experience their state - and never experience the state of the whole (reality is experience) - (to me)this is correct.
Furthermore - Fox goes so far as to say - meaningful experiences define reality. (its Foxs definition of reality (so it cant be incorrect) - and how can you truly communicate without meaning?
where i feel they are faultering in their argument is when the concept of objective reality comes in. what they call reality - i call the interpretation of reality - what i call reality - they have yet to introduce a term for.
Fox/Flower - is the above synopsis valid for your views? - what do you call the collection of forces that exist outside the individual?
 
I'm just gonna stick in my .02. I think reality is ac ollection of prespectives we gain from our senses. What we see, hear, smell, touch, and taste and interpretations made from these senses is what we deem real. I also believe that there is a lot out there that we cannot see stuff that goes beyond our senses. Our brain is so limited as it is. If we could use our whole brain then that would be the true reality, but right now we are only scratching the surface of reality. Paradigm shifts will change reality for the next million years.
Or we could all be in a computer there is no way of proving it. who knows.
 
:) Fox - so what is your term for what i am labeling as "objective reality"? :)
[ 12 January 2002: Message edited by: kewl ]
 
so what is "outside" you - anything?
is there is nothing outside you - how can there be anyone else?
 
Sorry...I couldn't resist that. ;)
I'm assuming you mean what do I call "the collection of forces that exist outside the individual", right?
Simple: I don't.
Since the only realities we can ever perceive are all subjective (either individual subjective intrepretation or variously formed collective intrepretations), I'm not sure naming something we will never actually encounter or be able to describe serves any purpose.
Yes, there are forces that exist that are not directly under the control of any one person, but I think these are better described individually rather than collectively, since that is how we name them.
If there even is an 'objective reality' it is basically just a bunch of molecules and other subatomic particles arranged together in various densities, combinations and kinetic energy levels, something like a lumpy soup. The fact that we have given individual names to some of the lumps in the soup is just a function of creating context for our subjective realities. Even "reality" is just an abstract concept we invented, a model that served some purpose at some time in the past.
"Seperation" is a subjective concept, much like the political borders found on a map. Could countries exist without the subjective seperation between them, one from another. The same goes for all parts of the whole.
In other words, naming that which is described and given context by our individual subjective perceptions makes it subjective by default.
It needs no name. We'll never be able to objectively perceive it. It just IS.
One note: for most crude, practical purposes, we can treat the wide-scale subjective 'reality' that has developed as an objective reality (in much the same fashion as you can still use Newtonian physics in many everyday cases...Einsteinian physics are overkill and only required in certain situations.
Quantum mechanics is one of the areas that the fallacy of an objective reality becomes apparent, along with metaphysics and philosophy.
[ 12 January 2002: Message edited by: FoX ]
 
Another fun point:
Every single post in this thread describes a subjective viewpoint.
Objectivity is like perfection: a fictional 'standard' created as something to strive for, not something that is.
 
Trust me fugly, you're still only half way there. That's just the awakening the next world of thought. Things will change in your thought and you'll gain another new reality. That for there exists a cause -> event world AND an event -> cause world. Then you realize the truth of a supreme cause <-> event ultimate reality.
 
^^^^^^^^
probably not, because in order to do so, i would need to assume that i was using my conscious to go through the proof of my consciousness. But, if you were next to me, i could kick you.
If i was really hard pressed to prove my consciousness, i would prolly say: and thus, i refute thee----KICK. thats as good as it gets.
 
I think it is reality just like everything else is, and I also think reality is expandable. In its most basic form, reality is whatever you buy into.
[ 14 January 2002: Message edited by: Void ]
 
I do firmly believe that we are all here in flesh and blood, standing on the face of a planet in a solar system.
When it comes to the mind however, you can choose your reality. eg. religous faith, superstitions, morals and predujudices to name a few. For me that is what being human is all about. The thing is we can analyse our life in ways other organisms' brains cannot, namely our percetion of reality. Each of us has a choice when it comes to what we want to make of this world and our existance in it.
 
Fox - we seperate out individuate sounds from a stream of noise in order to communicate. right now (if you are reading this) you are seperating based on color - parsing on patterns that are seperate from each other and the background.
if you didnt do that - how could you communicate?
 
Youre passing into a universe made not just of sight and sound but of mind. You see a sign post up ahead: YOU ARE ENTERING THE TWILIGHT ZONE.

Your reality is just that YOUR REALITY, believe in a god or unstoppable evil and they are there. A giant cockroach making and destroying by shitting and eating universes. It's all there within the very blocks and wards of our imaginations. It all HAS WILL AND SHALL HAPPEN.
Nothing is true; everything is permitted
-Hassan i Sabbah
 
I love this topic, i used to get really high with my friends and talk to them about this shit or trip and just think about it to myself.

I had also thought about how maybe this life is drug-induced. While i dont believe it is, it is a fun thing to think about.During certain salvia trips I've lived what felt like a lifetime and DMT makes me feel like infinity.

Also, what we experience in life is just our perceptions. There are no actual colors, its just that our eyes tell us that there are.


Pretty weird stuff
 
fugly said:
is the life you and I are living reality? is it possible we are living in a dream reality. or could it be we are the reality of someone else's dream. we are looking at ourselves through someone else's eyes. we think this whole "life" thing is real. Could we be some program on a computer made by some other reality...making us think that this is the true reality when in fact it is not. In our minds this is real...but in the minds of the true reality we are only figments of someone else's imagination. When I look at you am I really looking at you or am I looking at something that isn't there. You were put there to make me think that what I am thinking is real. What happens when the plug is pulled? Is that the end? Is this the beginning of the end of my or your reality?
Click to expand...

This is exactly why acid and the matrix do not mix!!!
 
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