Misc Is melatonin psychoactive, at all ?

[ferinox]

I'm not sure how well-researched Sekio's post was. Melatonin does produce serotonin. It has been studied for the treatment of depression. I'm not sure exactly what the results were but I know that it was found to be helpful (I suppose I could do a search for the studies if you like). Interestingly, marijuana and LSD increase melatonin production in the body. Certain hallucinogenic drugs emulate melatonin activity and act on the same areas of the brain. I don't know whether it has any effect on dopamine though.

Sekio's first response was an affirmative to the psychoactive question, his second was clarifying other questions.Melatonin doesn't increase serotonin in fact it has a tendency to decrease monamines including alertness promoting neurotransmitters such as serotonin and dopamine. Serotonin attenuated melatonin's anxiolytic effects in one study presumably by activating 5-HT subtypes 2A, 2C, and 3. Melatonin can produce antidepressant effects, some of which is related to its powerful antioxidant actions and some due to neurogenesis regulation by melatonin receptors.

Endogenous melatonin production is highly correlated with marijuana and classical psychedelics like you said. It promotes REM sleep in normal people and may contribute to an awake state similar to REM type sleep during psychedelic use. I've never experienced strong hallucinogenic effects from melatonin alone. There's much more going on than just melatonin from MJ and serotogenic psychedelics.

Melatonin effects many receptors beyond the melatonin receptor and has a rare ability to penetrate almost all parts of the body. Its a powerful substance and I look forward to further research on it. For now, I'm just happy that it has consistently given me high quality sleep for a year without tolerance.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Sekio's first response was an affirmative to the psychoactive question, his second was clarifying other questions.

Thanks for explaining, I actually had only noticed sekio's second post when I wrote that. When I said "I'm not sure how well researched the post was" I was referring to the part that Albion was referring to.

It is non-euphoric and non-hallucinogenic in essentially everyone.

Melatonin doesn't increase serotonin in fact it has a tendency to decrease monamines including alertness promoting neurotransmitters such as serotonin and dopamine. Serotonin attenuated melatonin's anxiolytic effects in one study presumably by activating 5-HT subtypes 2A, 2C, and 3. Melatonin can produce antidepressant effects, some of which is related to its powerful antioxidant actions and some due to neurogenesis regulation by melatonin receptors.

Well maybe my response was not well-researched enough on that point, lol. I was just going by something my doctor had said and Wikipedia also says "In mammals, melatonin is biosynthesized from the essential dietary amino acid tryptophan, with serotonin produced at the second step." However, it doesn't actually seem to have a reference to a source for that particular statement. Do you think perhaps what they actually meant to say was that trytophan produces serotonin and serotonin is synthesized into melatonin?

Endogenous melatonin production is highly correlated with marijuana and classical psychedelics like you said. It promotes REM sleep in normal people and may contribute to an awake state similar to REM type sleep during psychedelic use. I've never experienced strong hallucinogenic effects from melatonin alone. There's much more going on than just melatonin from MJ and serotogenic psychedelics.

Yes of course.

I'm just happy that it has consistently given me high quality sleep for a year without tolerance.

I wish it would do that for me! I seem to develop a tolerance to it rapidly. My sleep is terrible :-(

 

[Petey93]

Do you think perhaps what they actually meant to say was that trytophan produces serotonin and serotonin is synthesized into melatonin?

I think that is exactly it, I cant remember where I heard that serotonin is converted into melatonin (maybe on the radio?), but if you google the phrase tryptophan, serotonin, melatonin, it comes up with tons of results supporting that process.

I wish it would do that for me! I seem to develop a tolerance to it rapidly. My sleep is terrible :-(

Same here, insomnia as long as I can remember pretty much, my problem isnt so much tolerance, its that it doesnt necessarily work quite as well as I wish it did, it helps out a little with going to sleep, but not a lot for me.

 

[CBRworm]

Op: Maybe you are half asleep?

I have been taking a combination of Xanax, ambien and melatonin nightly for about 10 years now (otherwise I don't sleep, even with it I rarely get 6 hours). When I first started I had some interesting effects, now I don't even dream unless it has been so long since sleeping that I get night terrors.

 

[Charleston_Car]

I've taken melatonin for a long time, and the only real thing I've noticed when I take it is that those little voices that come right before I fall asleep are louder and longer-lasting, it freaked me out the first few times, thought I was going schizo or something.

Maybe you just have a big imagination, and you're expecting it to happen too, so your brain might be creating all that stuff. I'm not saying the melatonin has nothing to do with it, but the brain's capable of creating some pretty crazy stuff from scratch.

 

[Biovail]

What kinds of doses do you guys have experience with? The tablets I recently purchased contain 3mg melatonin, and the recommended dose is 1 tablet. So the first night I took 6 (18mg). The only effect I noticed was that I didn't wake up throughout the night like I usually do. Tonight I took twice that, 36mg, and I'm about to go to bed, so I'll see what happens.

Anyway, the reason I ask is because the safety profile on them is great. Apparently they've given people hundreds of times this dose without any dangerous effects (MELATONIN CAN INTERACT WITH MEDICATIONS, PLEASE DO RESEARCH!). So I was considering taking ~100mg tomorrow or the night after or something. Has anybody here tried this? Did anything happen?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Whoa, 100mg? I get very noticeable effects from 5mg. It's very different for different people though. No way would I be able to sleep on the amounts you took. Did you do it and if so how did it go?

 

[golden1]

I've taken 100mg, it was just the same as like 5mg. Pretty sure it depressed me for a couple days after as well.

 

[mygreenbic]

Non biased report, non placebo

I bought a bottle of 5mg melatonin pills. I take tons of benzos. I took 10mg planning on taking my clonazepam after. I haven't got to the klon yey because i can hardly stay awake. I took two diphenhydramine to potentiate. I am now nodding like when on high opiate doses. I'm feeling like there are other people in her, feeling like I'm in someone's car etc. The classical opiate type trippy nod.
Lets not forget it is produced by the pineal gland (the seat of the soul) where its hypothesized that dmt is endogenous to. When im nodding im getting kaleidoscope like cevs. Its a tryptamine and is also written about in shulgins tihkal book. I'm not feeling placebo as I take hypnotics and sedatives daily and have for years . getting strong akathisia now, really bad can't for type now anymore because of it sorry i had more to say
Akathisia = psychomotor restlessness and it just became severe. This chemical had potential hope more blueligjht research is done before this is discounted bg the misinformed
X trutherlair.tumblr.com

 

[hatrix]

I've taken melatonin for a long time, and the only real thing I've noticed when I take it is that those little voices that come right before I fall asleep are louder and longer-lasting, it freaked me out the first few times, thought I was going schizo or something.

Maybe you just have a big imagination, and you're expecting it to happen too, so your brain might be creating all that stuff. I'm not saying the melatonin has nothing to do with it, but the brain's capable of creating some pretty crazy stuff from scratch.

Um, little voices ? That's definitely not something normal, sorry to say. Either you're experiencing sleep paralysis every time you sleep, or have underlying mental issues. Again, no offense is meant, but that is definitely not normal.

Melatonin definitely isn't a recreational drug. No one is taking it to get high, just to help PROMOTE sleep. It does good at specifically that, but does not PUT you to sleep like benzos or something similar that can be prescribed for insomnia. I would definitely agree that it is completely non-euphoric and non-hallucinogenic.

Also, for someone who hasn't built a tolerance to melatonin, more than 3mg is overkill, and I don't even understand why they sell it in doses higher than 3mg. Chances are with higher doses that you won't fall asleep at all, and become rather restless. I would say an ideal dose is 1mg or so. Less is more with melatonin.

 

[trinocularr]

Um, little voices ? That's definitely not something normal, sorry to say. Either you're experiencing sleep paralysis every time you sleep, or have underlying mental issues. Again, no offense is meant, but that is definitely not normal.

This.

First thing I thought after reading that.

 

[lenses]

I've taken melatonin for a long time, and the only real thing I've noticed when I take it is that those little voices that come right before I fall asleep are louder and longer-lasting, it freaked me out the first few times, thought I was going schizo or something.

Happen to me too from big doses, and i'm definitely not cray-cray. The internal monologue voice in your head get turned up really loud sometimes and gets really obnoxious. I also would get "size hallucinations" in the dark,meaning perceptual distortions of reference to size of room (seemed very big, and very small at same time).

If you really need to knock yourself out, try taking 3mgs sublingually then smoking some cannabis.Seems the high is very much increased. Cannabis increases melatonin levels in brain by magnitudes , and it will put you right to sleep. I get all sorts of crazy OEV's and CEV's, and get kinda freaked out walking around the house from that combo.

-lenses

 

[hatrix]

Yea sorry guys regardless if you don't "think" you have mental issues, that is not normal.

And what Charleston_Car explains doesn't sound like conscious thoughts, lenses.

If you are experiencing what he described, then like i said, it's either sleep paralysis or you have underlying mental issues. You shouldn't hear other voices that aren't yours inside your head.

 

[mygreenbic]

I dont think its helpful to call someone crazy because they get an effect from a drug that you dont. Actually shame on you.
It is a tryptamine and in higher doses it is a sopoforic. If you dont believe me then read in shulgin's tihkal (tryptamines I have known and loved.) The best way to research drugs that may have psychoactive potential is to go from the experiences of other people using them. And to discredit someone who is giving their personal experience as being crazy is doing a disservice to that person and to the whole community. Doing so may prevent people from posting in the future, or even changing their posts to conform to the opinions of a few who believe they know everything. To the guy who posted that he hears voices after the melatonin, Im sure he most likely isnt mentally deformed. He is more enlightened than the one accusing him of this because he has the ability to listen to what his body is telling him and express it to others.
You can discredit my claims on a drug but you cant discredit my claim that what you said to the person was nothing short of an ignorant act.

 

[Tussmann]

I would say an ideal dose is 1mg or so. Less is more with melatonin.

I used to be in this train of thought -- especially with elderly studies citing less than. 1 mg as the actual 'golden dose.' But , after further examination, countless studies support 5 mg a night for things like REM sleep behavior disorder, and or those who take stimulants during the day.

I take 6 mg a night with a lot of success.

 

[hatrix]

I dont think its helpful to call someone crazy because they get an effect from a drug that you dont. Actually shame on you.
It is a tryptamine and in higher doses it is a sopoforic. If you dont believe me then read in shulgin's tihkal (tryptamines I have known and loved.) The best way to research drugs that may have psychoactive potential is to go from the experiences of other people using them. And to discredit someone who is giving their personal experience as being crazy is doing a disservice to that person and to the whole community. Doing so may prevent people from posting in the future, or even changing their posts to conform to the opinions of a few who believe they know everything. To the guy who posted that he hears voices after the melatonin, Im sure he most likely isnt mentally deformed. He is more enlightened than the one accusing him of this because he has the ability to listen to what his body is telling him and express it to others.
You can discredit my claims on a drug but you cant discredit my claim that what you said to the person was nothing short of an ignorant act.

No, no shame on me. That is not a normal side effect. First of all, melatonin is a hormone. If we were talking about something that was an a-typical drug and psychoactive substance, then sure I'd agree with you. Melatonin is a naturally occuring compound already found in humans and animals. While it's chemically known as N-acetyl-5-methoxytryptamine, it's not a psychoactive psychedelic tryptamine. You aren't getting high from melatonin.

I already said in my post that it's not meant offensively, but people like you want to go and take it that way. Just because something is psychosomatic doesn't mean I'm calling that person "crazy". Sleep paralysis is a very plausible reason for the side effects mentioned, but underlying mental issues could very well be present. Who are you to say they aren't ? Do you think everyone knows the instant they are born if they have underlying mental issues ? No. Otherwise they wouldn't be underlying.

Better for me to point out to that person that the mentioned side effect is not in the least bit normal, than for them to go on thinking it's completely normal and nothing to worry about. You should always worry about your mental health.

Also, how did I discredit him/her ? In no way did I say they were lying about their subjective experience.

I used to be in this train of thought -- especially with elderly studies citing less than. 1 mg as the actual 'golden dose.' But , after further examination, countless studies support 5 mg a night for things like REM sleep behavior disorder, and or those who take stimulants during the day.

I take 6 mg a night with a lot of success.

Using melatonin for occasional help with sleeping and using it for REM sleep behavior disorder are two completely different things. Also, using stimulants is another completely different thing.

For those only using melatonin occasionally, it is well researched that less is more. High doses like 6mg are overkill. Lots of people end up restless and completely unable to sleep the entire night when taking high doses of melatonin.

 

[crazycatman]

Higher than recommended doses always give me nice vivid dreams, other than that it doesn't feel psychoactive to me.

 

[Steven_Tyler77]

I have read somewhere a research article stating that melatonin potentiates opiates. For all I know, whenever I take melatonin as a sleeping aid in the evening and I do codeine next morning, the codeine feels a bit stronger. Even if I take 15 mg codeine for medical reasons, I feel a slight buzz (I only normally start to feel the effects with 30 mg). So yeah, I could say it potentiates opiates...

It is psychoactive, but hardly recreational. I usually take low doses, as higher doses tend to make me groggy and useless the next day. Problem with lower doses is they don't get me to sleep. But I feel relaxed and I have lots of creative ideas for the stories I'm writing. When I sleep, I get very vivid, psychedelic-like dreams. I once even got a lucid dream due to melatonin.

There are also some experiences on erowid.org on melatonin that you might want to check...

 

[J.Wallace]

I can't help but laugh at you guys and girls looking for a way to use Melatonin recreationally. It is not euphoric, no matter how you want to define "Euphoric".

Use it for sleep. That's about all it's good for.

 

[crazycatman]

2-3 times recommended dose + sleep = vivid dreams.

I guess that could be called recreational. If you stretch the definition of recreational anyway.