Misc Is melatonin psychoactive, at all ?

[faceplant]

This is a strange one, and I personally cant get my head around it. I use melatonin to help me get some sleep when im manic (bipolar crap ). So thats maybe 3-4 times a month, just 2-3 mg helps me get some much needed sleep so i can be functional the next day. But repeatedly, everytime i get some really, really strange effects. Im still very much awake, so I decided to write about it and see what you guys think.

I feel ridiculous doing a "trip report" for what is essentially a hormone analogue, but its the best way to portray the effects.

0:00 take 2-3 mg of melatonin orally
0:25 every so slightly hazy vision, harder to read far away text
0:30 unusually easily startled by unexpected movement or noises
0:40 Blank walls have a slightly crosshatch texture to them, its subtle but noticable.
0:50 its slightly difficult to find the right words when typing, and i have a strange head buzz, similar to being slightly drunk minus the drunkedness, if that makes sense.
1:00 + i start to feel quite sleepy and can usually sleep when id otherwise be up all night.


Everything I understand about melatonin and its method of action tells me it should have absolutely no psychoactive effects, what so ever. I have experienced this 15+ times and each time written it off as a placebo, but honestly, im sure this isnt a placebo. I took 2 mg about an hour ago and the feeling im experiencing isnt entirely dissimilar to a low dose of ketamine. Every things a little bit confusing, and its hard to tell if ive spelt a word right by looking at it. I do quite enjoy the effects really, despite being convinced its a placebo, i look watching the very mild OEVs on my ceiling whilst im trying to fall asleep.

Has anybody got any sort of explanation for this, its really confused me.

EDIT: just to add I havent used any drugs at all recently, just drunk a small amount a few days ago and some oxy about a week and a half ago.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

These are very common effects from melatonin. It's not a placebo effect, I've talked to my doctor about it. His suggestion is to take less melatonin. In high doses it can actually make you have trouble sleeping or have very intense dreams or nightmares. I am assuming the cause is probably that taking a supplement of melatonin is a much higher quantity than the body produces on it's own. If you like the effects then I don't see it as a bad thing, except that if you take a lot of melatonin on a regular basis you can develop a tolerance to it.

 

[sekio]

Melatonin is definitely psychoactive, but not in the manner that LSD or ketamine would be. I would expect it just shifted your mind into a daydreaming state and you began to hallucinate mildly, just like you would if you were tired or sleep deprived.

 

[pbuilder]

Does anyone know the mechanism of action that melatonin uses?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Melatonin is a neurohormone, N-acetyl-5-methoxytryptamine. It is produced by the pineal gland. Most of the effects come from its activation of the melatonin receptors, mostly located in the brain but also a few other organs, such as the eyes. It also has antioxidant properties and protects DNA.

 

[HYDRO_CHRONIC]

doesnt it potentiate opiods?

 

[sekio]

No, and it is not a classical sedative like benzos/barbs/alcohol. It is non-euphoric and non-hallucinogenic in essentially everyone.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

No, and it is not a classical sedative like benzos/barbs/alcohol. It is non-euphoric and non-hallucinogenic in essentially everyone.

Are you saying no to the OP's question of "is melatonin psychoactive?" or no to Hydro_Chronic's question of "doesn't it potentiate opioids?" I would argue that the answer to both questions is yes.

Psychoactive means it crosses the blood–brain barrier and acts upon the CNS, affecting brain function, perception, mood, consciousness, etc. Melatonin definitely does those things.

As for potentiating opioids, I've heard it can potentiate lots of drugs, or at least act as an interesting combination. Whether one would classify it as potentiation per se, I'm not sure, because I don't know whether it actually makes the effects of opioids any stronger or simply adds the effects of the melatonin on top.

I would say you might be partially right in that melatonin is not extemely euphoric in most people, if you define euphoria as intense feelings of joy and well-being. I would consider it hallucinogenic, however, because it puts you in a dream-like state, alters your vision and creates hynagogic imagery.

The fact that it is not a classical sedative does not prove anything about its psychoactive properties.

 

[Albion]

Does melatonin indirectly promote dopamine/serotonin release? I only ask because Sekio mentioned it's essentially non-euphoric, but it's essential for sleep and sleep can be highly euphoric at times.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Does melatonin indirectly promote dopamine/serotonin release? I only ask because Sekio mentioned it's essentially non-euphoric, but it's essential for sleep and sleep can be highly euphoric at times.

I'm not sure how well-researched Sekio's post (that melatonin is non-euphoric and non-hallucinogenic in everyone) was.

Melatonin has been studied for the treatment of depression. I'm not sure exactly what the results were but I know that it was found to be helpful (I suppose I could do a search for the studies if you like). Interestingly, marijuana and LSD increase melatonin production in the body. Certain hallucinogenic drugs emulate melatonin activity and act on the same areas of the brain. I don't know whether it has any effect on dopamine though.

 

[Albion]

Yeah I'd love to read those studies if you'd be so kind. Melatonin fascinates me...seems like a chemical with a great deal of potential.

 

[PeacePipeChief]

thasts 2 new experimental drugs ive found in one day :D , found out about the potential of loperamide yesterday, only had 4mg tho , mixed it with 1.5mg xanax (too much xanax for me i only need 1mg max , .5 is enough , and 25mg doxylamine (all i had left , woulda prefered 50-75mg , or maybe promethazine)

but melatonin ive heard of it before as a pharamacy medication sorta thing , then saw psychoactive and bam !

is it OTC in QLD/NSW ?

edit: fucking spewin , just did a quick google search and its S4 in aus .... need to come up with a whole bunch of shitty excuses to get better prescription drugs before i just turn back to the deep end of the black market ... tbh i like the criminal underworld better than this piece of shit anyway haha .

 

[jasper kent]

I don't know the how/why of it, but I do know that melatonin enhances my dreaming. I tend to dream more and have more vivid, colorful dreams. Some people say it causes them to have nightmares, but I don't seem to have any more than usual ( I rarely have nightmares anyway).

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Yeah I'd love to read those studies if you'd be so kind. Melatonin fascinates me...seems like a chemical with a great deal of potential.

Here are a few studies:
- to treat SAD/winter depression: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/science-new...ft-winter-depression-by-syncing-rhythms.shtml
- to treat menopausal depression and hormonal imbalances: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=C3FCCB4B2960F2EBB9581D460FE53D81.d02t03
- to treat depression, bipolar, and other mood disorders: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/317/5844/1488
- to treat delirium: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20845391
- to treat Alzheimers: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9030627
- to reduce cravings for cocaine/amphetamines: http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v28/n12/full/1300254a.html
- low melatonin as a factor for bipolar: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4003592
- low melatonin correlated with depression and stress: http://content.karger.com/ProdukteD...bstractBuch&ArtikelNr=127186&ProduktNr=234573

melatonin ive heard of it before as a pharamacy medication sorta thing , then saw psychoactive and bam ! is it OTC in QLD/NSW ?

edit: just did a quick google search and its S4 in aus

Interesting, melatonin has been available OTC in the US and Canada for a long time, but in many other countries it requires a prescription. You can get homeopathic melatonin OTC in Australia, but that has such a tiny amount of melatonin in it and there is a controversy surrounding whether it actually works or is just placebo effect. You can buy regular melatonin online in Australia though, but I'm sure you could also get a prescription very easily (for trouble sleeping). You may also be able to get herbs that naturally contain melatonin OTC, such as Feverfew or St John's Wort.

It is a fascinating hormone. It it is secreted at night in both day-active (diurnal) and nocturnal animals, which might explain why it has sometimes (especially in higher doses) paradoxical effects, like making you more awake or altering your vision or making it more sensitive.

I don't know the how/why of it, but I do know that melatonin enhances my dreaming. I tend to dream more and have more vivid, colorful dreams. Some people say it causes them to have nightmares, but I don't seem to have any more than usual ( I rarely have nightmares anyway).

Melatonin increases REM sleep, the type of sleep when we dream. Some people use it to help with lucid dreaming. I've found that for me it can sometimes cause nightmares if I take way too much. It is also associated with memory, so maybe it makes you remember dreams more clearly.

 

[jasper kent]

Swimmingdancer: "Melatonin increases REM sleep, the type of sleep when we dream. Some people use it to help with lucid dreaming. I've found that for me it can sometimes cause nightmares if I take way too much. It is also associated with memory, so maybe it makes you remember dreams more clearly."

Interesting. I know I like it because I enjoy my dreams. One thing, though: I've found that if I take it every night I quickly build up a tolerance. Just like all good drugs, huh?

 

[nAON]

Just because it's psychoactive doesn't mean it's recreational.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Just because it's psychoactive doesn't mean it's recreational.

Depends how you define recreational. If "recreational" means a drug used nonmedically for enjoyment, then I would say melatonin is definitely used that way by some people.

 

[jasper kent]

I guess melatonin is partly recreational for me in that I really enjoy the lucid dreaming. It's like tripping in my sleep.

 

[Albion]

Here are a few studies:
- to treat SAD/winter depression: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/science-new...ft-winter-depression-by-syncing-rhythms.shtml
- to treat menopausal depression and hormonal imbalances: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=C3FCCB4B2960F2EBB9581D460FE53D81.d02t03
- to treat depression, bipolar, and other mood disorders: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/317/5844/1488
- to treat delirium: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20845391
- to treat Alzheimers: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9030627
- to reduce cravings for cocaine/amphetamines: http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v28/n12/full/1300254a.html
- low melatonin as a factor for bipolar: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4003592
- low melatonin correlated with depression and stress: http://content.karger.com/ProdukteD...bstractBuch&ArtikelNr=127186&ProduktNr=234573

Thank you my good man! :D

 

[Petey93]

For me it really only makes my dreams more vivid. It helps me a little with getting to sleep (i take it a couple times a week) but really the greatest effect is on dreams. The other night (the first time i read this thread) i took 10 mg (as opposed to my regular 3) to see if i had any experiences with it while i was awake. Apart from being pretty freaked out by staying awake in a dark room (as in a lot more than i normally would have been) it didnt really have an effect on me. I guess its different for everyone though, ill stick to 3-5 mgs from now on.

Edit: From my understanding, melatonin is actually produced from serotonin, not the other way around, so as melatonin increases, serotonin actually decreases. (although, perhaps the idea is that if you use melatonin as a supplement for depression, your body doesnt need to convert as much serotonin to melatonin itself, leaving you with more serotonin than normal.)