Is MDMA neurotoxic and does it cause brain damage?

[lovelife1]

if you'd include such a transient change in neuron function in your definition of neurotoxicity then you're fine to do that (wikipedia in my language also does...), but if that's the case then you'd have to call any psychoactive substance (including cannabis, paracetamol, codeine, any antidepressant, ...) a neurotoxin.

thats exactly it. All I am trying to say here (and apologies if I havent been very clear on that, my bad) is that mdma cause change in neuron function which in some users can lead to temporary severe/abnormal psychological and physical symptoms lasting for longer periods of time. Regardless of whether damage done to the tissue or death of neurons occured. Which still does not make this drug safe.

I have been telling him this for the last page or so, but he is having none of it, as he knows more than current science apparently. I wouldn't waste your breath lads, he has obviously got it into his head that MDMA is responsible for this that and the other, and he won't listen to reason and the advice of more experienced users....

I am very sure my long term comedown was due to my 2.5 year mdma abuse (every weekened!) . I have no family history of depression or anxiety and I grew up in a very peaceful and loving environment. You agree that mdma can "trigger" an LTC, but then you fail to recognize that mdma is the cause.

 

[Septonn]

You agree that mdma can "trigger" an LTC, but then you fail to recognize that mdma is the cause.

Ah, but here is where the problem lies. Trigger =/= cause.
Say that myself (~85kg) and a friend (~65kg) go for some beers together. I have had a good meal before going out, he hasn't eaten anything. I have a habit of drinking, he hardly ever drinks, so my tolerance to alcohol is higher. We both have the same amount of alcohol during the night, yet I feel fine the next morning whereas he feels like shit. His hangover is triggered by alcohol, however the cause of his hangover is a combination of factors that lead to a given result.

With MDMA, it may trigger something in a person in conjunction with personal traits of said person, making these combined factors the cause of any mishaps.

 

[lovelife1]

Ah, but here is where the problem lies. Trigger =/= cause.
Say that myself (~85kg) and a friend (~65kg) go for some beers together. I have had a good meal before going out, he hasn't eaten anything. I have a habit of drinking, he hardly ever drinks, so my tolerance to alcohol is higher. We both have the same amount of alcohol during the night, yet I feel fine the next morning whereas he feels like shit. His hangover is triggered by alcohol, however the cause of his hangover is a combination of factors that lead to a given result.

With MDMA, it may trigger something in a person in conjunction with personal traits of said person, making these combined factors the cause of any mishaps.

agree. My point is : no alcohol - no hangover.

 

[Septonn]

agree. My point is : no alcohol - no hangover.

I get your point, but I would argue you're overreacting. Do you also avoid traffic to not get in a carcrash? Have you given up sports to prevent injuries?
I'm not advocating the use of MDMA here, but to state that MDMA will cause damage imho is similar to arguing that driving a car will get you killed in a crash.

 

[lovelife1]

I get your point, but I would argue you're overreacting. Do you also avoid traffic to not get in a carcrash? Have you given up sports to prevent injuries?
I'm not advocating the use of MDMA here, but to state that MDMA will cause damage imho is similar to arguing that driving a car will get you killed in a crash.

Thats not what i mean (please read my other posts above). I am saying people who are suffering from a long term comedown after using mdma are not making these symptoms up. Its not "just in their heads" as some suggest.

Kinda bored of writing this again but heres my point:mdma CAN cause neuron malfunction leading to multiple, severe psychological and physiological symptoms (lasting for longer periods of time) in the minority of users. And as soon as one acknowledges that the safety of the drug is in question.

 

[SilentRoller]

2.5 year mdma abuse (every weekened!)

Then you have no right to sit there, and spout shit about MDMA has caused you so much hardship and that it's so neurotoxic, when you were irresponsible with your usage. You also can't say that your experience directly proves MDMA neurotoxcity either, as your pattern of usage was outside what would be considered normal & responsible - too much of anything every weekend (not just MDMA) will fuck you up!

To summarize, your argument is not only factually inaccurate, but you have identified the cause of your LTC right here - not MDMA being neurotoxic and causing brain damage, but rather your hugely irresponsible use of a SRA (Serotonin Releasing Agent). You can't smash a potent SRA every weekend, and then come on here to bitch about it, and state how it's terribly neurotoxic and brain-damaging. You made your bed mate, now lay in it like many others have done (including myself in the past).

 

[JWills20]

mdma CAN cause neuron malfunction leading to multiple, severe psychological and physiological symptoms (lasting for longer periods of time) in the minority of users. And as soon as one acknowledges that the safety of the drug is in question.

Here's an analogy of what you're saying:

'Driving a car CAN cause car accidents which can result in severe psychological and physiological symptoms (lasting for longer periods of time) in the minority of drivers. And as soon as one acknowledges that the safety of driving a car is in question.'

Here's another:

'Eating a peanut CAN cause an allergic reaction which can result in severe psychological and physiological symptoms (lasting for longer periods of time) in the minority of peanut consumers. And as soon as one acknowledges that the safety of eating a peanut is in question.'

Can't you now see how ridiculous some of what you're saying sounds?

Anyway, I think this thread has gone round in circles too many times so I'm just going to close. If you really want to, PM me.