Misc Is kratom addiction in my head and is Imodium helping? It sound so dumb :/

[Space__Kitten]

Ok so it sounds bogus to get addicted to kratom, I took it on and off for 5 years with no problems and thought you couldn't get addicted to it. Then I found a cheap vender and started taking it every night, then after a couple months twice and by six months 3+ times a day. Started with about 4-5g a day to where I take about 50-100g+ a day now. I still didn't think I was addicted until I tried to stop. I wanted to lower my dose because it's been getting spendy and a few times at work I took too much by accident and was shaking and it doesn't even feel as good anymore but I haven't been able to. I start getting cold sweats, hot flashes, chills and my legs cramp hurt and won't stop moving. Worst feeling is the cold sweats. It's so wierd I feel it must be in my head.

FedEx messed up this week and I won't get my shipment until Tuesday and last couple days were my first days without any in about a year and I was miserable and took Imodium and it went away for the most part. I still feel icky but not horrible, my legs are sore like after you work out back hurts a bit and I'm fatigued but that's about it.

I don't know I just don't trust this. I'm glad I feel ok but like is it the Imodium or is it plasibo effect? Also like when I feel crappy going off kratom am I just not used to being sober? I'm worried if I go off kratom I'll feel crappy forever and it's not kratom withdrawl and it just sucks and normal body aches just hurt more than I remember. I think that maybe I can't handle normal pain from like muscle aches and pains idk.

Also please no hate, I spend way too much on this stuff. I am so anxious waiting for my shipment on Tuesday, I'm hoping with these 3 days off of it my tolerance might go down a bit so I don't have to take 35 pills a dose to feel ok. I'm worried about going to work tomorrow. I'm worried any minute the Imodium and ibuprofen will stop working. I feel so dumb it's just kratom it's not even a real drug in my opinion. I just felt it was like a good stress reliever and kept me off things like alcohol or experimenting with harder drugs cause I get bored but I don't want to do that anymore. I never got addicted to anything else though I was always careful. so it sounds bogus to get addicted to kratom, I took it on and off for 5 years with no problems and thought you couldn't get addicted to it. Then I found a cheap vender and started taking it every night, then after a couple months twice and by six months 3+ times a day. Started with about 4-5g a day to where I take about 50-100g+ a day now. I still didn't think I was addicted until I tried to stop. I wanted to lower my dose because it's been getting spendy and a few times at work I took too much by accident and was shaking and it doesn't even feel as good anymore but I haven't been able to. I start getting cold sweats, hot flashes, chills and my legs cramp hurt and won't stop moving. Worst feeling is the cold sweats. It's so wierd I feel it must be in my head.

FedEx messed up this week and I won't get my shipment until Tuesday and last couple days were my first days without any in about a year and I was miserable and took Imodium and it went away for the most part. I still feel icky but not horrible, my legs are sore like after you work out back hurts a bit and I'm fatigued but that's about it.

I don't know I just don't trust this. I'm glad I feel ok but like is it the Imodium or is it plasibo effect? Also like when I feel crappy going off kratom am I just not used to being sober? I'm worried if I go off kratom I'll feel crappy forever and it's not kratom withdrawl and it just sucks and normal body aches just hurt more than I remember. I think that maybe I can't handle normal pain from like muscle aches and pains idk.

Also please no hate, I spend way too much on this stuff. I am so anxious waiting for my shipment on Tuesday, I'm hoping with these 3 days off of it my tolerance might go down a bit so I don't have to take 35 pills a dose to feel ok. I'm worried about going to work tomorrow. I'm worried any minute the Imodium and ibuprofen will stop working. I feel so dumb it's just kratom it's not even a real drug in my opinion. I just felt it was like a good stress reliever and kept me off things like alcohol or experimenting with harder drugs cause I get bored and tried tons but I don't want to do that anymore plus I been on probation (not for drugs though I still could get tested) I never got addicted to anything else though I was always careful. I wasn't with this cause I thought it was impossible.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

Yes, it sounds like you are addicted to the kratom and you are experiencing withdrawals.

You say that feel better after taking immodium (loperamide). How much did you take?

Regular therapeutic doses of lopermaide during withdrawal can give you some relief from diarrhea and stomach discomfort.

High doses of loperamide can actually minimize withdrawal symptoms ALOT. However, high doses of loperamide is dangerous (for your heart) especially if used for extended periods of time. This has been a hot topic around here - I'm sure many people will respond to further elaborate

So ya, how much loperamide did you take? I would recommend only using it in therapeutic doses to control diarrhea.

Kratom addiction is very real, and kratom withdrawal s can be very tough.

 

[Space__Kitten]

I only plan on using Imodium for the next day or two until Tuesday when I get my kratom in then when it's in try to start out with a smaller dose than I had been. I've been taking 10 of the 2mg pills whenever I start to feel sick again so today so far only once and yesterday a total of 3 times. I know it's a lot but that's what helped me feel better so I could do anything. I read that you can get physically dependent on it and it's not the safest, I already have constipation from kratom so bad I was bleeding a few times(tmi I know)do I don't want any other health concerns. If I did use Imodium to quit kratom I'd use it for only about a week or less. I was forced into withdrawl one other time when I was sick and had diarrhea and vomiting for almost a week, I still tried to take kratom but it wasn't absorbing right and I had the chills and hot and cold flashes really rough for about 3 days before I started to feel better even though I wasn't getting a buzz from it...but when I was better I just stayed on kratom.

I'm glad to hear it's not in my head. I used to be one of the people that would say "oh it's impossible to get addicted to kratom" but what I feel now feels real and really rough to deal with. I have no other experience withdrawl besides cigarettes so it might not be the worse thing to withdrawl from but to be its very rough. Part of me wants to quit but part of me doesn't. I'd love to be able to just cut back if I could trust myself to keep doses low. It's easier said than done though.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

Just be careful. There is a real danger to your heart if you use high doses of loperamide... I don't know the specifics well enough to talk the talk, but suffice it to say: it can be fatal.

Also know this: using loperamide in high doses to maintain while you wait for your kratom to arrive could actually raise your tolerance to the opiate like effects that kratom has. This could potentially mean that you will need to use even more kratom then before when your kratom finally arrives on Tuesday.

It would be better to tough out the withdrawls without any opiate like substances, including loperamide, until your kratom arrives. I realize, from first hand experience, that this much easier said then done. But doing it this way will definitely help you in lowering your tolerance.

I hope you realize that you are well on your way in the journey that is opiate addiction. The best advice anyone can give you is to quit now, because opiate addiction is a downward spiral. The aches, pains, depression, etc that you feel now without your kratom will only get worse the longer you use. Earlier, you said you were afraid that feeling this way is normal for you now. It's not... It's withdrawals. But the more you use, the worse you feel when you do withdrawal AND the longer it takes for you to feel normal again once you do quit.

Whatever you decide I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Space__Kitten]

There is no way I could tough out the withdrawals tomorrow I work 8 hours with the public, I'm a mess when I come off it. I'm in the running for a management position so I can't call in either. I know there is some cross tolerance but I thought it wasn't directly with kratom but mostly with real opiates. I was trying to save my last 10 grams of kratom for Monday but I gave in last night and took 7 of em, which wasn't strong but better than I had done in a long time when I usually take 50-100g in a day and took 7 yesterday and none today. That little bit even seemed to help. I was on a try and go off the lip tonight to test it and see if I was strong enough to be off everything and thinking maybe the lop wasn't really helping that much but I got anxious again and took some more and I think I waited too long cause it's been an hour sense taking and the hot/cold flashes came back and chills. Lop seems to take forever to work for me upward around starting 2 to 3 hours I noticed. I went longer today between having anything, it helps that you can't get a buzz off this so besides feeling better there isn't a motivation to take more. I'm saving my last 3G of kratom for tomorrow but I don't even know if that will be enough to do anything when my regular dose is 13-14g . I do feel I could get off kratom with this. Does lop make you sleepy do you know? I just want to sleep so bad and slept in today. My energy is gone. I don't know if it's being off the kratom or the lop. I do miss the buzz and I wish I had something for that. I just wish it was Tuesday.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

I'm sorry, I've never taken loperamide so I have no idea if it makes you sleepy. I do believe it takes several hours to kick in fully... which is what you seem to be experiencing.

Tuesday will come soon enough. I know the feeling of being in withdrawal while having to wait over a long weekend for post delivery of the fix... Such agony.

 

[Space__Kitten]

Ya it seems to be taking forever and I dread tomorrow at work, at least last 2 days I had off...I hope I get through it quick then go to sleep and wake up early with it being Tuesday :/

 

[RDP89]

Kratom w.d. sucks!! Just got off myself for the third time and so glad to pretty much out of woods. Paws sucks,as with anything. Hang in there, but it's def not all in your head, especially at that high of a dose for that long, cold turkey will bring shitty w.d.s. For me the wor st is insomnia and restless limbs, then the achiness. It like to step myself down first with lope n DXM and such, makes it easier I feel. Definitely feel for you, so hard to hold a job when getting off, time off is best, but I understand it's not always a luxury that one can afford. Sending positive vibes your way.

 

[DogLover123757]

Hey Space Kitten I know exactly how you feel. I had a year long addiction to UEI Kratom that I am currently cold turkey from right now on day three. It is pain and suffering/discomfort like I cannot even explain. Kratom addiction is real and the suffering is true withdrawals. I know many make a joke about it but I can tell you first hand that it is no illusion. Just hang in there the best you can and since you have some coming tomorrow I won't say anything else because my path is different as I am trying to put it down. If I can help you in anyway let me know as I have been battling this for sometime and the hell is real. Take care everyone.

 

[pbuilder]

I don't know why anyone would think kratom doesn't have withdrawals... It actives the MU-OPIATE receptors lol... It's going to have withdrawals like any other opiate, however since I believe it's just a partial agonist, and also has some opiate antagonist alkaloids within the leaf as well, it generally isn't as addictive as real opiates and tolerance tends to not rise nearly as quick. But I mean, come on OP, you are taking up to 100 grams of kratom per day? What did you expect for real... A high dose is like 8 grams, most people take 5-10 grams per day...

Check out the subreddit /r/quittingkratom if you want support.

 

[Mad Dash]

One thing I have learned over the years is if you think something is working, don't question it because it is working. Placebo effect is so strong that it can actually impair judgement. Some people (very rare) have placebo effect disorder (or something like that I can not remember the name of it). Essentially if they have had a drug before you can give them a tylenol and tell them it was a xanax and their brain will release neruochemical that attempt to duplicate the experience. Very rare condition (very lucky condition), so if the immodium is working that well (and it can help a lot) just let it do its thing.

Only reason I know about this is a friend I went to college with had it. His dad was some kind of neurologist or something and it is actually diagnosed, he asked me to every once in a while pretend to get drugs and to tell him they were opiates or benzos even if they weren't. I did not want to believe it but damn it was weird I would give it to him anyways (whatever rocks the boat) and when it was "opiates" I would look at his pupils, fucking pinpoint like he just did a bag full. I mean it didn't always work, I had to really fool him into thinking it was, but it was the damn strangest thing. Fucker could get high even if there weren't any drugs around or he had no money. I would get jealous sometimes and tell him half way through they were fake and boom just like that about 10 minutes later he was "sober" again. If anyone has ever heard of this I would really like to know more about the condition. I have never heard of it again but it was really cool to watch.

 

[Space__Kitten]

100g is my high dose of I binge all day, take 20g every 4 hours or so...my usual dose is about 15 g around 3-4 times a day so like 48 to 60g a day when I'm working...even though it activates the opioid receptors I think it is in the same class as coffee I heard? So it just seems so harmless when you read up on it. That it isn't a true opiate, you can't overdose it's all natural and I always used to read posts with people thinking kratom addiction is a joke or the withdrawl was a cake walk with barely any symptoms. I had taken it on and off for years without problems. It was in one of my catogories I considered "low addiction potential" with weed, dxm, kratom ect. I've taken the later without many addiction problems, a bit of craving but I never got sick quiting any drug until now, not even when I
used to drink regularly it wasn't enough to be addicted or have withdrawals. I guess I felt kratom was this wonderful safe drug, can't
overdose, can't get addicted, no major long term health consequences especially compared to other drugs. I had seen it compared to having a cup of coffee in the morning and a nice pick me up for the day. I did feel once it got to the point where I was taking 100+ caps a day this was out of control and not good for me. It started out as a miricle drug, made me more sociable, got me off my antidepressants and I honestly didn't need them. With every dose after a month or so it would stop working as well and is increase my dose at first by a couple pills now every time I increase its usually by 5 caps. I used to be able to spend $20 on expensive kratom a week between my bf and I and now I spend around 100-130 a week on kratom for us, I order 5 112g bags every Friday for my man and I to split and they run out the next Saturday so it last about a week. I did feel I was probably defiantly psychologically addicted but I didn't believe kratom was physically addictive. Kratom can be strong especially if I get a good batch but for the most part it's a pretty mild drug, not like other stuff I used to do and never let myself get hooked on, I usually can act sober on it except for the few times I got the shakes.

I tried to call in sick today my manager doesn't want me to. I told him to try and find someone to replace my shift and if call in an hour. If no one wants to work my shift in going in. He sounds annoyed. I hope he finds someone but with the tone of his voice I don't think he's gonna look. Today is gonna suck.

Thank you so much for the support I don't feel so alone. I honestly didn't even consider kratom a drug before(like I don't with caffeine or nicotine) but after all I went through this year after I got hooked it's changed my mind. I have respect for the posters who are quiting or have quit iy better than I can do right now. I've thought about it and considered it but can't make the jump yet. I Don't know how much longer I can do this but I'm not ready to give it up just yet. I miss it too much right now.

 

[Mad Dash]

100g is my high dose of I binge all day, take 20g every 4 hours or so...my usual dose is about 15 g around 3-4 times a day so like 48 to 60g a day when I'm working...even though it activates the opioid receptors I think it is in the same class as coffee I heard? So it just seems so harmless when you read up on it. That it isn't a true opiate, you can't overdose it's all natural and I always used to read posts with people thinking kratom addiction is a joke or the withdrawl was a cake walk with barely any symptoms. I had taken it on and off for years without problems. It was in one of my catogories I considered "low addiction potential" with weed, dxm, kratom ect. I've taken the later without many addiction problems, a bit of craving but I never got sick quiting any drug until now, not even when I
used to drink regularly it wasn't enough to be addicted or have withdrawals. I guess I felt kratom was this wonderful safe drug, can't
overdose, can't get addicted, no major long term health consequences especially compared to other drugs. I had seen it compared to having a cup of coffee in the morning and a nice pick me up for the day. I did feel once it got to the point where I was taking 100+ caps a day this was out of control and not good for me. It started out as a miricle drug, made me more sociable, got me off my antidepressants and I honestly didn't need them. With every dose after a month or so it would stop working as well and is increase my dose at first by a couple pills now every time I increase its usually by 5 caps. I used to be able to spend $20 on expensive kratom a week between my bf and I and now I spend around 100-130 a week on kratom for us, I order 5 112g bags every Friday for my man and I to split and they run out the next Saturday so it last about a week. I did feel I was probably defiantly psychologically addicted but I didn't believe kratom was physically addictive. Kratom can be strong especially if I get a good batch but for the most part it's a pretty mild drug, not like other stuff I used to do and never let myself get hooked on, I usually can act sober on it except for the few times I got the shakes.

I tried to call in sick today my manager doesn't want me to. I told him to try and find someone to replace my shift and if call in an hour. If no one wants to work my shift in going in. He sounds annoyed. I hope he finds someone but with the tone of his voice I don't think he's gonna look. Today is gonna suck.

Thank you so much for the support I don't feel so alone. I honestly didn't even consider kratom a drug before(like I don't with caffeine or nicotine) but after all I went through this year after I got hooked it's changed my mind. I have respect for the posters who are quiting or have quit iy better than I can do right now. I've thought about it and considered it but can't make the jump yet. I Don't know how much longer I can do this but I'm not ready to give it up just yet. I miss it too much right now.

This is not to make you feel bad FYI this is just as a message for all the posters that say how they use XYZ drug as an antidepressant and that is the best and that we are all stupid and don't know what we are talking about... This is what happens.

 

[pbuilder]

100g is my high dose of I binge all day, take 20g every 4 hours or so...my usual dose is about 15 g around 3-4 times a day so like 48 to 60g a day when I'm working...even though it activates the opioid receptors I think it is in the same class as coffee I heard? So it just seems so harmless when you read up on it. That it isn't a true opiate, you can't overdose it's all natural and I always used to read posts with people thinking kratom addiction is a joke or the withdrawl was a cake walk with barely any symptoms. I had taken it on and off for years without problems. It was in one of my catogories I considered "low addiction potential" with weed, dxm, kratom ect. I've taken the later without many addiction problems, a bit of craving but I never got sick quiting any drug until now, not even when I
used to drink regularly it wasn't enough to be addicted or have withdrawals. I guess I felt kratom was this wonderful safe drug, can't
overdose, can't get addicted, no major long term health consequences especially compared to other drugs. I had seen it compared to having a cup of coffee in the morning and a nice pick me up for the day. I did feel once it got to the point where I was taking 100+ caps a day this was out of control and not good for me. It started out as a miricle drug, made me more sociable, got me off my antidepressants and I honestly didn't need them. With every dose after a month or so it would stop working as well and is increase my dose at first by a couple pills now every time I increase its usually by 5 caps. I used to be able to spend $20 on expensive kratom a week between my bf and I and now I spend around 100-130 a week on kratom for us, I order 5 112g bags every Friday for my man and I to split and they run out the next Saturday so it last about a week. I did feel I was probably defiantly psychologically addicted but I didn't believe kratom was physically addictive. Kratom can be strong especially if I get a good batch but for the most part it's a pretty mild drug, not like other stuff I used to do and never let myself get hooked on, I usually can act sober on it except for the few times I got the shakes.

I tried to call in sick today my manager doesn't want me to. I told him to try and find someone to replace my shift and if call in an hour. If no one wants to work my shift in going in. He sounds annoyed. I hope he finds someone but with the tone of his voice I don't think he's gonna look. Today is gonna suck.

Thank you so much for the support I don't feel so alone. I honestly didn't even consider kratom a drug before(like I don't with caffeine or nicotine) but after all I went through this year after I got hooked it's changed my mind. I have respect for the posters who are quiting or have quit iy better than I can do right now. I've thought about it and considered it but can't make the jump yet. I Don't know how much longer I can do this but I'm not ready to give it up just yet. I miss it too much right now.

The kratom tree is in the same family as the coffee tree, but the coffee been has no opiate properties to it, where as kratoms main mechanism of action is via the opiate receptor. Make no mistake, you are experiencing opiate withdrawal. There is a lot of mis-information around the internet in regards to kratom, but basically if you take it daily for more then a few weeks, you will have mild opiate withdrawals when you quit. The long you take it, the worse the withdrawals are, however they generally won't ever be close to as bad as say a large oxy or heroin habit. Just really bad restless legs, insomnia, depression, anxiety.

 

[Space__Kitten]

So I got my shipment in and it was grainy and not fine like usual, I've had some inconsistencies with my kratom from them anyways. Not as strong and I asked them cause they test all there batches and admired the mitragine content on that batch they got from there vendor was still good but not like they're usual batches and next batch should be better blah blah blah. Waited those days to be disappointed. Soooo I've decided I'd quit kratom, my whole week was ruined getting my post late and the product being shit. To feel it good one last time I took around 30g (well not sure exactly but 45 "000" whatever that amount is at once plus dosing up last few nights and to get rid of it. Which was a wonderful relief. Now I'm on no kratom just Imodium again. I still have some kratom I bought 560g for the week and am down to my last bag 112g bag now I'm saving for emergencies. I was almost off kratom when I started up again. It's not worth it, to have your week ruined based on quality of kratom or if post is late. Plus the vendor I used changed the free fedex shipping overnight from orders over 100 to orders over 200. I buy 100 a week currently and I know from experience if I spent over 200 and bought for 2 weeks of use it up way too early. I did that once and went through a kilo with the help of my bf in only 10 days :/ . So I'm like f it I'm done with this.

Also to poster knocking on using kratom for depression, it has a lot less side effects that SSRIS. Just leave it to me to abuse whatever med I touch. im not the poster child of someone of someone who responsibly legit meds. I even used to abuse my SSRIs like if I would fight with my bf and would feel emotional I could pop 1 or 2 extra and the pain would disappear when I ran out early I attacked my bf and called the cops on myself lol why I'm now on probation. Never leave it to addicts to set the example. I believe kratom can be used responsibly for depression, just not by me. I know I have an addictive personality I just don't know how to go about it. At least coming off kratom I don't flip out attack people and call the cops on mysel lol so idk in my experience coming off antidepressants was worse in that aspect.

 

[Mad Dash]

No I didn't even mean it in the way you think I meant it. I meant that it is all good using an opiate for depression, until you run out, then not only are you right back to being depressed and you are going through WD. And you really shouldn't abuse SSRIs like that even if taking one extra during a fight calmed you down it should not have been the SSRI that caused it, possibly a placebo effect. They do not treat acute depression, It is a cumulative build up that cause the seratonin reuptake inhinition. But if you go off of it cold turkey you end that and it can cause some MAJOR episodes.

We have had a lot of new users come in and claim oxycodone or meth to be the best antidepressant and swear by it. But at the end of the day you can not rely on any medication to rid you of your depression, you have to fix the problem, therapy is the best way I have found to really help solve these issues. Medication is a tool to help with the worst of the symptoms, but once they become a crutch, it is game over.

 

[tricomb]

^Agreed, there's a reason why Cognitive Behavioral Therapy / CBT has been proven to be more effective by a landslide over pharmacotherapy alone.

 

[Ziiirp]

I genuinely think, that opioids inhibit rational thinking (besides numbing emotions). That is my empirical impression. That should be reason enough to at least reduce the dosage to a reasonable (at least from the monetary POV) amount of like 3-7g daily.

Otherwise you'll get more stupid/lazy every day without realizing it. Do only take a bit of Kratom if the emotional pain becomes unbearable and try other practices to sharpen your mind in order to not being influenced by your environment/surroundings in a way that you have to escape into taking high amounts of anything (dunno if taking high amounts of Kratom is worse than taking huge amount of sugar instead).

If you are strong enought then taper down to 1-2g daily and then quit. If your environment/circle of people forces you to take exorbitant amounts of something, then change that first, before trying to quit.

 

[Space__Kitten]

I know taking an SSRI did calm me I was on a high dose of celexa 50mg a day and after taking one of those you would def feel a wierd buzz, not a high cause it didn't feel good, but one of the things with it was the inability to cry...like I'm a cry baby and cry at commercials and within about 2 hours of taking one of feel clouded like medicated down and if I was sitting there crying wanting to die id feel calm and just want to go to sleep and if I missed my dose I would start to feel emotional again. After that incident I never took them wrongness again but they ONLY worked when I had my post partum depression, once that went away 8 months or so later they seemed inadfective to make a difference either way. They also numbed me out to every other emotion too though (on the down side and why I stopped taking them once I felt better) they kept me from feeling love hate anger closeness. I felt it hard to connect with my baby and my bf and started to worry if someone died I wouldn't feel it. It wasn't like that on Prozac but celexa sure as hell worked pretty quickly (and a lot lower half life than Prozac). But kratom felt safer I was happy and still felt love all the good of the antidepressants without the nasty side effects of feeling of being attached from the world. Antidepressants gave me a lack of motivation and a feeling of I didn't care but when I was at my lowest kept me from hurong myself until I got past the hump and found kratom.

Now I don't feel too good my bf and I been fighting all day off kratom (we always usually get a lot anymore) now I'm trying to watch ratatouille but it's hard to pay attention I miss the kratom but I really want to get off it.

 

[woos]

Loperamide (don't take more than about 12-20mg per day for more than a day or two) will eliminate most physical kratom w/d. But will make your tummy upset. It also takes hours to kick in, so don't take more! Just wait!

Add magnesium for the win...

Then add exercise. I know, it sounds hard. Just do it. Try 10 minutes of vigorous exercise followed by a hot shower. If that doesn't cut it, add LOW DOSE (under 100mg!) DXM.

You'll feel a little off, but be at about 90%. Just feel a bit bored. You'll be able to work, sleep, etc, no problem. Kratom w/d is very minor even from high dosage use. Lope and magnesium and exercise will take care of it and you don't need to take much lope at all. Just 8mg or so should do it. I don't know anything about UEI use though. Kratom is easy to quit physically anyway-you can do it. I cannot stress exercise enough. With just a low dose of lope combined with even 10 minutes of exercise, you'll feel *fine* for a good 4-6 hours. At which point, don't take more lope--just exercise a little more. Magnesium will take care of restless legs, it's very minor compared to other opiates. Tolerance will go away in a week or less and you won't need lope after like 3 days.