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Meds Is it a good idea to use suboxone to get off an uncontrollable kratom addiction?

candidsurprise

Bluelighter
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Oct 18, 2017
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I know that kratom isn't that physically addictive, but in my case I am so psychologically and mentally addicted to it that I cannot taper it. I've tried many times, it just doesn't work, I crave the drug and the buzz too much. If I quit I get extreme depression, anhedonia, anxiety and end up relapsing as a result. I actually prefer certain high quality red strains of kratom to any opiates that I have tried before, except for heroin. Would it be a good idea to use suboxone to counter the cravings for it so that I can quit the kratom? I'm thinking that suboxone might also take care of most of the mental withdrawal symptoms like the depression and anhedonia. And then just slowly taper the suboxone over time.
 
Can you maybe get something like codeine/ Thats not very addictive either but it might help the cravings. I dont think something as strong as subs would be a good idea either really
 
It depends on how serious the addiction is. I mean, some Suboxone doctors even test you for kratom and stuff these days. So that tells me that medicine has advanced at least as far enough that they're looking at kratom as a potential opioid of abuse, so that tells me that they (maybe not all docs mind you, but those in the know) would be willing to prescribe Suboxone to get off of kratom.

Is it a good idea though? I can't really say. It depends on how seriously the kratom use is affecting your life, and what measures you're willing to take to get off of it. I would say that if it's causing you stomach or any other physicsl issues, causing you to miss work/school, or something else truly life disrupting, then a medicine like Suboxone could help you. But if you're not at that point yet, I wouldn't consider it.

A reminder that it's also possible to do a brief taper with Suboxone. You don't have to "stay" taking it, you can do a short taper over a couple weeks and then hopefully by the end of it you'll be in the clear and then you won't be reaching for the kratom.

None of this advice substitutes for good medical advice though. I'd talk to your physician or a psychologist.
 
I am going to say no. I watched someone transition from .5 mg bupe to maximum kratom and they were still pretty sick for awhile.

Are you saying that buprenorphine wouldn't work for the kratom use, or that it's going to cause me more problems than it solves?
 
Neither. Well the latter I guess. Hypothetically if YOU have enough will power it should work, but most likely a bit too well.
 
Kratom is certainly physically addictive, anyone who says otherwise is a fool. I was addicted to very high doses for years. But to answer your question we really need to know what kind of doses you're taking.

I've seen it not work well both ways.

In detox I saw a guy coming off very high doses of kratom and suboxone didn't help much.

It's also common to see people on suboxone or other opioids get little relief from kratom.

Although in general I would advise using suboxone, as kratom is significantly easier to taper.
 
you take one dose and are good for maybe a few hours.
Physically? Or mentally?

Kratom withdrawals always took at least 20hr to start for me. The combined half life of mitragynine and its metabolite is quite long.

The euphoria itself only lasts a few hours, though. But there's a long delay until the withdrawals start.

I found it very easy to taper from a physical standpoint, but psychologically tough.

At least in my experiences over 10yr
 
Physically? Or mentally?

Kratom withdrawals always took at least 20hr to start for me. The combined half life of mitragynine and its metabolite is quite long.

The euphoria itself only lasts a few hours, though. But there's a long delay until the withdrawals start.

I found it very easy to taper from a physical standpoint, but psychologically tough.

At least in my experiences over 10yr
Both physically and mentally. I just feel like kratom lends itself to redosing more readily than bupe. Quitting opioids would've been a hell of a lot harder for me if I only had kratom and no bupe. Imo they both have their uses in regards to maintenance, but bupe is just easier to slowly cut back on.
 
the person I saw get relief was already 3 weeks clean of a 32nd of an 8 mg pill. so .25 mg daily plus three weeks of abstinence at which point kratom provided plenty relief from sub w/d's. I Imagine bupe could be used to get off kratom, as could heroin at a near microdose level? But in this case I would say stick with the devil you know. Kratom probably lends to redosing because it has a shorter half life? That is just a guess since bupes is so long.
 
Kratom probably lends to redosing because it has a shorter half life? That is just a guess since bupes is so long.
Kratom has a vastly more complex pharmacology and effect profile. A lot of the high people get from kratom is not due to it's opioid effects.

It's not as simple as bupe which is very selective to opioid receptors .

Coming off kratom in high doses could be equated to coming off opioids, meth/amphetamines and an SSRI all at the same time.

It's not as bad as any 3 of them on their own, but doing all 3 really is insanely difficult.

A lot of the addictiveness and compulsive redosing is due to it's stimulant and other euphoria effects, not it's opioid properties (which are often overstated)

Mitragynine is technically a tryptamine derivative not a typical opioid. It's also both a mu agonost and antagonist.

Lots of misconceptions about kratom
 
I know that kratom isn't that physically addictive, but in my case I am so psychologically and mentally addicted to it that I cannot taper it. I've tried many times, it just doesn't work, I crave the drug and the buzz too much. If I quit I get extreme depression, anhedonia, anxiety and end up relapsing as a result. I actually prefer certain high quality red strains of kratom to any opiates that I have. tried before, except for heroin. Would it be a good idea to use suboxone to counter the cravings for it so that I can quit the kratom? I'm thinking that suboxone might also take care of most of the mental withdrawal symptoms like the depression and anhedonia. And then just slowly taper the suboxone over time.
I would say no, from experience. I was put on suboxone to get me off oxycodone. During my first week on suboxone I researched it, and freaked out. I read enough horror stories about withdrawals reported by doctors, patients, patients significant others, and nurses that I went back to the clinic and informed them that I quit.
A year later I was shooting heroin again. I called a rehab. I was told I had to wait 24 hours after my last opiate usage, then I would get my first dose of suboxone. They tapered me off of suboxone in five days....that's right...for five days was all I took it. That was September 2009. My problem was chronic, intense pain in my neck, lower back, and my legs down to about my knees, all from an injury in the early 70's. Out of rehab I met with an acquaintance, who immediately became my dealer...for oxycodone. He had a prescription for an unbelievable amount of oxy30's, so he sold them really cheap. Eventually I went to a "pain management doctor", who put me on a high dosage of fentanyl. Several years passed and I wanted my freedom back. It took 4 months to wean off of all opiates, but I did it with the help of a sympathetic doctor. The last fentanyl patch came off February 1st, 2018.
Now here's what I don't understand. I used kratom almost daily for a year after that. I took the capsules so I could keep track of my usage. I never got a buzz from kratom, possibly because I used it for pain. After a year, I just quit. No withdrawal feelings at all. Today I use cannabis, thc and cbd, in it's various forms to combat pain.
But I would never want to take suboxone for an extended period of time. That drug scares me as much as my nemesis, heroin. But that's me.
My only suggestion is to research what is said about suboxone. Not just what doctors say, but look on the internet. I read positive and negative comments, but the negative comments far outweighed the positive, both in numbers, and especially in content.
Good luck. Good luck on this decision, and good luck in the future.
Peace
 
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This is how it worked for me.
I was on a dose of about 50g krtom/day for about 8 months.
I just couldn't get off the kratom because I got bad depression from the withdrawal, which I didn't know from other opiates.
I waited until I couldn't take Kratom anymore and then took 2mg of Subutex (buprenorphine).
Then it worked immediately. After 2 months I then switched to hydromorphone, which I then withdrawn after another 2 months. Withdrawal wasn't easy either, but I didn't get as depressed as I did from kratom. But it is a dangerours way. The risk is to lose control over the strong opioids.
 
This is how it worked for me.
I was on a dose of about 50g krtom/day for about 8 months.
I just couldn't get off the kratom because I got bad depression from the withdrawal, which I didn't know from other opiates.
I waited until I couldn't take Kratom anymore and then took 2mg of Subutex (buprenorphine).
Then it worked immediately. After 2 months I then switched to hydromorphone, which I then withdrawn after another 2 months. Withdrawal wasn't easy either, but I didn't get as depressed as I did from kratom. But it is a dangerours way. The risk is to lose control over the strong opioids.

Yeah I relate to you fully on the really weird dysphoric depression after stopping kratom. Also Why do you feel that buprenorphine is a gateway to addiction to full opioid agonists like hydromorphone? Your experience really encourages me in that buprenorphine got rid of the severe depressive symptoms after quitting kratom. I think this is what I need
 
Kratom has a vastly more complex pharmacology and effect profile. A lot of the high people get from kratom is not due to it's opioid effects.

It's not as simple as bupe which is very selective to opioid receptors .

Coming off kratom in high doses could be equated to coming off opioids, meth/amphetamines and an SSRI all at the same time.

It's not as bad as any 3 of them on their own, but doing all 3 really is insanely difficult.

A lot of the addictiveness and compulsive redosing is due to it's stimulant and other euphoria effects, not it's opioid properties (which are often overstated)

Mitragynine is technically a tryptamine derivative not a typical opioid. It's also both a mu agonost and antagonist.

Lots of misconceptions about kratom

I do not believe I spread any misconceptions about kratom; especially considering deficits report of "kratom leading more to redosing" as a chunk of bupe can hold you a day or two. I could say Mitragynine has a shorter half life but that would discount the rest of the pharmacology profile which is uniquely wide?
 
We all have our own subjective experiences with drugs or addiction. Personally I was highly addicted to kratom, up to 65g per day at one point, but generally only dosed 1 or 2 times per day and never felt compelled to redose-- simply because redosing isn't very effective, and it keeps me awake at night if I dose after 5pm.

I've been dependent on both kratom and bupe. I gave a pretty unbiased standpoint.

But in terms of my recommendation I can only go off my own experiences. Kratom was much easier to taper for me.

In the past I used kratom to get off of bupe, and it sucked. I still had withdrawals no matter how much kratom I took.

Thus, overall I see bupe as the more addictive/dependency forming drug.
 
I also believe that buphernorphine is the stronger opioid than kratom. Personally, I couldn't withdraw from kratom because I got bad depression-like states from it. I couldn't stand it.
So I substituted the Kratom with Subutex. It went smoothly from the first dose. After a few months I wanted to withdraw the Subutex. But this shallow but very long withdrawal wasn't for me either.
So I substituted the subutex with hydromorphone. That also went smoothly. I stopped taking hydromorphone over Christmas. I prefer it short and heavy. I tried the Plumbus-nine "Memantine-Method" and it worked very well.
Withdrawal wasn't that bad. But what I didn't expect were the PAWS. I was clean for about 12 days, but I hadn't had any drive at all. Since I'm self-employed, I have to work, so I took 2 mg Subutex again. And so it is to this day.
Now I want to try again and have taken 4 weeks vacation from February 1st. If anyone has any advice on how to get my neurochemistry back into balance as quickly as possible, or anything else that helps against PAWS, I would be very grateful.
 
If anyone has any advice on how to get my neurochemistry back into balance as quickly as possible, or anything else that helps against PAWS, I would be very grateful.
Beyond a healthy diet, aerobic exercise is by far the #1 thing to recover from PAWS. It repairs your receptors and rewires your brain's reward circuits (which is the main cause of PAWS). It also gives you natural endogenous endorphins to boot.

Obviously it does take the actual effort of doing exercise, but it's well worth if.

Strength training also helps, but not as much as aerobic.
 
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