is homosexuality a choice?

[augustaB]

Jesus, I am really surprised at how closed-minded this forum is. Here is a guy who has never met a gay person in his life, and would like to know more about the lifestyle, the mindset, and all you can do is criticize him? You say he's not liberal because he doesn't know any gay people? Do you know how old he is? Do you know where he lives? From what I've read he hasn't expressed any bigotry, just curiosity. And you've done nothing but snap at him, and tell him that this conversation is only going to promote bigotry.

I don't think I'm criticizing anymore. I'm trying to give him a feeling of what it has meant to be gay/bi in a straight society. From what he writes he has had to face some of this persecution himself. So okay I've accepted he's asking a valid question in a spirit of open inquiry. Just because the answer is unpleasant doesn't mean I've got something against wesmdow.

 

[Meeko Baybee]

I dont think you are getting my point... discussion is good... but the fact that SOCIETY has to wonder "Is homosexuality a choice" and so many people say YES! That is where prejudice is coming from. There should be NO QUESTION on whether or not homosexuality is a choice. I am not saying that there shouldn't be questions... questions are great and it is awesome that questions open people up for discussion! But the very fact that we have to question if it is a choice is where it shows that society has not grown to the extent that it should be growing.

I am not saying that we can't question judgemental topics, but the very fact that it is BEING questioned is where I find fault in society.

Do we choose our sex? No.
Do we choose what race we are? No.
Do we choose who we are born to? No.
Do we choose our sexual orientation? I say no.

Do we question whether or not someone chooses to be white, black, chinese... whatever? No! Because they just are! It is something that is chosen through genetics.

But yet we question if someone is gay... and I don't think that is right! I believe that just like I am white... I did not choose to be white, I just AM, and I AM the sexual orientation that I am. I did not choose it, it just is! We accept that no one chooses in the womb what race they will come out to be... I mean if two african-american people had sex and made a baby, we are pretty damn sure that baby doesn't go "Hmmm I think Ill come out chinese!" It is genetics which chooses your race.

So why doesnt society accept that we do not choose orientation... it just IS? It's not that it's taboo to discuss, its just the fact that it even needs to be discussed, and not accepted... that makes me sick.

 

[kittyinthedark]

Well, do straight people choose to be straight? No, they don't. You don't choose who you are attracted to. And people wouldn't fuck people that they didn't want to fuck. Given that homosexuals are pretty heavily slandered, mocked, and otherwise derided by the general public, I can't see why anyone would choose to be gay. Would you choose to be a minority of any kind living in a society that openly dislikes (even hates, even assaults and kills) that minority? I certainly wouldn't....

 

[Gunsmoke]

Okay fine, ill reword: Im upset when someone says you choose to be gay. Its just not true. Your right, it is intolerant of me to get upset when someone is asking a question without regarding their intentions, i apologize. Im sorry you feel attacked, but the places this question leads to are emotionally charged.

I'm openly and thoroughly gay at the moment, for me it was a choice. I started out straight because that's how I was raised as a christian boy and during high school I came to the conclusion that I was bisexual thru an increasing interest in the idea that I didn't want to limit the people I could emotional investment myself in to 50% of the people I associate with. Following the emotional attractions to other males, I developed an appreciation for their beauty as well.

As I got more accustomed to my newfound orientation, I found myself acting a lot different without overtly trying, mainly I started displaying some effeminate qualities and carried myself differently.

Then thanks to a favorite teacher and mentor of mine, I began to evaluate the reasoning behind my behaviors and attractions. With no interference from him, I came to the conclusion that I find a great deal of comfort in the some of the mores of the homosexual culture, specifically the blurred lines in between gender roles.

At that point I decided I possessed qualities (more like mental attributes) of both man and woman, I wanted to protect and comfort my prospective lover as the man traditionally does and in return receive the same, while at the same time I wanted to show no reservation for the emotions I felt and express my love in ways seen as non-masculine.

I found gay and bisexual males (at least the males I surrounded myself with) to be the best fit for me emotionally and, due to my nature, sexually. There's much more to be said about that, but maybe another time

As a final comment, while I do believe homosexuality was a choice in myself, this might not-- hell it probably isnt true in all people. I really don't know and have read numerous conflicting reports on the subject. I do however believe that a large part of an alternative orientation is the open-mindedness to accept yourself for who you are or might be, which you could be born with or it could be taught to you... Alas, nature vs. nurture is a different thread 8(

 

[Gunsmoke]

Wow that took forever for me to write... already like 7 replies after the post i quoted >_<

 

[kittyinthedark]

...increasing interest in the idea that I didn't want to limit the people I could emotional investment myself in to 50% of the people I associate with. Following the emotional attractions to other males...

...I found myself acting a lot different without overtly trying...

um.... so.... how exactly was being gay a choice?

 

[Gunsmoke]

Being effiminate makes you gay?

I've said my piece please just take it or leave it. It's one thing if people need to have an absolute answer for something that's clearly dependent on multiple confusing and misunderstood factors, but completely another when they don't agree to disagree.

 

[kittyinthedark]

Uh, what? How did you draw that conclusion from my post? For the record, I'm bi, and I have LOTS of gay and trans friends. (Thank you theater department! ) And effeminate straight male friends. And butch straight female friends. I've probably got all my bases covered one way or another anyhow. Enough to know that people come in all varieties. I'm a delightful mish-mash myself - I was the head of the theater makeup department in high school as well as on the rugby team. I was an honors student on student council and planned a whole prom as well as a pep rally for 1300 people, and I was also a pot head dating a drug dealer. I don't need any lessons on the fact that people can come with any totally random combination of attributes.

What I'm saying is that it sounds like you were gay/bi all along, but chose to be straight because of your upbringing. Not the other way around.

 

[wesmdow]

Given that homosexuals are pretty heavily slandered, mocked, and otherwise derided by the general public, I can't see why anyone would choose to be gay. Would you choose to be a minority of any kind living in a society that openly dislikes (even hates, even assaults and kills) that minority? I certainly wouldn't....

i choose to be a drug addict. as an addict i am: slandered, mocked, and otherwise derided constantly.

so, for arguments sake, it looks from my position (straight addict) like one might choose to be gay for some reason.

im just trying to point out that it isnt as unreasonable as it seems.

 

[Nicci Da RoCkA]

it varies from person to person.
Some people are born and know they are gay, yet some people realize this in their teens when they get feelings for the same sex.. Some people realize when theyre more open with sexuality.
Im sure i wasnt anywhere near bi when i was in school, but over the past yr i have found myself looking at other chicks.. Does it make me bi, no, i havent gone anywhere with it, but that's a personal choice.
Its only a choice if you decide to ignore your feelings, otherwise your straight, or just born with it.
eg. the dude from big brother was 'born' gay, and decided to be cos of his personal feeling.
eg. someone who is homophobic but has feelings for the same sex, will choose to be straight because of their personal feelings.

 

[kittyinthedark]

i choose to be a drug addict. as an addict i am: slandered, mocked, and otherwise derided constantly.

so, for arguments sake, it looks from my position (straight addict) like one might choose to be gay for some reason.

im just trying to point out that it isnt as unreasonable as it seems.

Yes, but why do you choose to be a drug user? Because using drugs feels good. You wouldn't do drugs for no reason if it caused you to be subjected to all the bullshit. For you, the pleasure of using drugs outweighs the negatives. Why would you choose to be gay if you weren't naturally attracted to the same sex? You wouldn't. For homosexuals, fucking the living daylights out of other people of the same sex is worth it. It wouldn't be worth it if you weren't already gay.

 

[wesmdow]

im playing devils advocate here:

i DECIDED to like pot. i was unhappy sober, and i found this new state of existence....it wasnt necessarily BETTER, but it was different enough to allow me to change my persona... i have been stoned for almost 5 years now.

whos to say i couldnt DECIDE to like men? a few people here have even claimed to.

 

[MazDan]

Im sorry but those saying that that being gay is not a choice is just wrong.........pure and simple wrong.

I dont believe there is an absolute answer.

Yes for some people they may well have been born that way and in fact therefore had no choice.

I wasnt, I chose to enjoy being with guys because I just cant see the difference..........honestly, I dont. Guys are just as human as any woman I have ever been with. In my case I seem to click much better with guys than with women but that is almost certainly because I dont have a lot of experience dealing with women, have had some bad experiences and dont seem to have that trouble with guys.

There is No absolute.

 

[doesntmatter]

indeed a grey area.

the act of homosexuality is absolutely a choice.

now the urges and feelings may not be.

however whether or not you feel it is morally wrong would be the deciding factor in the final outcome.

you can't choose how you feel and think all the time. you can only attempt to control or work on your mental state (not calling homosexuality a mental state, just stating the practice of self discipline in general in regards to holding back thoughts and urges that you don't want)

actions are a different story though.

you have a choice to make every action you make. you choose to say everything you say. no matter what you think you're born into, you choose everything about what actions you make.

 

[Judas]

Many homesexuals come from conservative households. Children raised by same sex couples do not grow up to be gay. There are a lot of studies on environmental factors and they pretty much conclude that environment does not contribute to a person being gay or not. On another note, I think gay people are more likely to live a gay livestyle if they come from liberal families. Thats just because they have less fear or need to hide who they are.

 

[rumpled]

^ +1 re:your last two sentences!

There are the gay, there are the straight. Then there are those who are gay, but suppress it, and live as a straight, for whatsoever reason they may have (parents, religion, fear of ostracising, etc)

Some straights who have experimented remain straight, but others go through an epiphany and a realization that they, in fact, love members of the same sex. Do you then, consider this a choice? You may argue that environmental issues may affect the choice of gender, but How is it possible to choose to prefer someone? Especially when you know you'll face social objections?

I'm not even going to start talking about bisexuals. (For the record, I'm female, I'm sexually fluid, but I prefer women to men, and this works out to be the most comfortable thing on earth for me. Now if I choose to be totally ramrod straight...*that* would be a choice.)

 

[QuestionEverything]

I think the answer to this totally depends on the person. There isn't a definitive answer IMO.

I know plenty of people who were born homosexual. It never was a choice, just something that they've always known as far back as they can remember. When the other kids in school were getting crushes on the opposite sex, they were crushing over their same sex friends.

I also know several people who will tell you straight up that they're making the choice to have a homosexual relationship, yet do not consider themselves completely homosexual. Do they count? To an outsider, they're homosexual. They get ridiculed the same as any other homosexual would; yet, despite that, they'll be the first to tell you that yes, in fact, they are choosing to have a homosexual relationship at the time.

There are so many levels of sexuality; it's not black or white/gay or straight.

 

[ScattyD]

Lost of interseting points.

For starters I'm straight, and know a handfull of gay/bi people (just so I cant be accused of being a bigot)

I have to agree with huntmitch on the quality of posts in this thread but moving on.

From the documentarys and gay guys I have spoken to I do not think that GUY choos to be gay. The fetus initialy develops as a girl (hens why men have nipples they dont need) and from there is develops into a boy. Some reasurch as inticated that this change from girl fetus to boy dose not compleatly happen and thus is the cause to their sexuality. This is only in men though. I have seen/ heard nothing about woman so IMO women choose to be gay. I personaly feel that a lot of women choose to be gay because they will get a more forfilling emotional relationship with a woman as lets be fair men just hump or grunt.

With respect to being Bi, again I feel that is a choise but to do with sex not relationships. I think some Bi men are just hiding/uncomfortable with the fact they are gay but also all women and some men that choose to be bi just like to have lots of different typs of sexula experiences.

As I staited I'm straight but at the weekend I was boshed and talking to my gay friend and was courious what it was like to kiss a guy... like dose it feel the same as a woman.... some people never stop trying and enjoy fun with both sexes IMO

 

[beamers]

As far as it being genetic, this doesn't make too much sense since evolution would have selected homosexual genes out (homosexuals don't have kids, so how are these gay genes being passed on?). If you are unable or unwilling to breed then you are useless in the eyes of evolution.
There may be a small percentage of people that have errors during chromosome recombination where they may end up with 2 X chromosomes and a y (XXY), or a shortened y chromosome. This would be an incredibly small number of people and cannot explain homosexuality.
Cases of a gay queen having a straight hetero genetically identical twins disprove the gay gene myth.

Here's what I think:

Seeing as homosexuals see themselves as "women", "girls" and feminine, they are obviously somewhat delusional. Since they have a penis and XY sex chromosomes they are obviously male and no one but themselves is being fooled by their statements and behaviour.
This delusional behaviour is nothing short of a psychological condition, much like the narcissist that has delusions of grandeur. Homosexuality like narcissism, is probably triggerred by a childhood experience or experiences. And no its no going to the cliche dodgey happenings at bath-time, like narcissism it could be triggered by almost anything, it depends on the individual. There is obviously a childhood trigger as people don't decide to be gay when they are 35 (they may choose to come out at this age but they were always gay).

 

[AuraithX]

As far as it being genetic, this doesn't make too much sense since evolution would have selected homosexual genes out (homosexuals don't have kids, so how are these gay genes being passed on?). If you are unable or unwilling to breed then you are useless in the eyes of evolution.
There may be a small percentage of people that have errors during chromosome recombination where they may end up with 2 X chromosomes and a y (XXY), or a shortened y chromosome. This would be an incredibly small number of people and cannot explain homosexuality.
Cases of a gay queen having a straight hetero genetically identical twins disprove the gay gene myth.

Here's what I think:

Seeing as homosexuals see themselves as "women", "girls" and feminine, they are obviously somewhat delusional. Since they have a penis and XY sex chromosomes they are obviously male and no one but themselves is being fooled by their statements and behaviour.
This delusional behaviour is nothing short of a psychological condition, much like the narcissist that has delusions of grandeur. Homosexuality like narcissism, is probably triggerred by a childhood experience or experiences. And no its no going to the cliche dodgey happenings at bath-time, like narcissism it could be triggered by almost anything, it depends on the individual. There is obviously a childhood trigger as people don't decide to be gay when they are 35 (they may choose to come out at this age but they were always gay).

Read wikipedia.

Sexual practices that significantly reduce frequency of heterosexual intercourse significantly decrease the chances of successful reproduction, and for this reason, they may be maladaptive in an evolutionary context. Maladaptive traits will only be removed from a population if the trait is under simple, direct selection, if it derives from a heritable component of a genotype and if the intensity of selection is greater than other evolutionary forces like genetic drift, or inclusive fitness. The prevalence of homosexuality does not, therefore, represent a problem for genetic or evolutionary theory.

Some have suggested that homosexuality is adaptive in a non-obvious way. By way of analogy, the allele (a particular version of a gene) which causes sickle-cell anemia when two copies are present may also confer resistance to malaria with no anemia when one copy is present.

The so-called "gay uncle" theory posits that people who, themselves, do not have children may nonetheless increase the prevalence of their genes in future generations by providing resources (food, supervision, defense, shelter, etc.) to the offspring of close relatives. The primary criticism of this theory has to do with the fact that children share on average 25% of their genes with their uncles and aunts, but on average 50% with their parents. This means that to be adaptive, a "gay uncle" would need to save from death (or other lineage-terminating events) on average two nieces or nephews for every one of their own offspring they give up. Critics of the theory find this trade-off to be unlikely to produce a net reproductive gain.

It has recently been suggested that male homosexuality represents an excess of genes coding for female-like traits which tip gay males over a 'liability threshold' into homosexuality. Females selecting 'gay-enabled' men may have increased the viability of their offspring.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_and_sexual_orientation#Sexual_orientation_and_evolution