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is homosexuality a choice?

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sboogie said:
AuraithX- what are you talking about? Where have you seen/heard that sexual preference is a "genetic condition" ....nowhere, because there is no such thing beyond conjecture

equating animal behavior to human behavior doesn't get you very far, think about how different gender and sex are between ethno-cultural placements- you want to jump species now??

sheesh
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It is genetic, you're born with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_and_sexual_orientation

LeVay concluded in his 1991 paper that "The discovery that the nucleus differs in size between heterosexual and homosexual men illustrates that sexual orientation in humans is amenable to study at the biological level, and this discovery opens the door to studies of neurotransmitters or receptors that might be involved in regulating this aspect of personality. Further interpretation of the results of this study must be considered speculative. In particular, the results do not allow one to decide if the size of INAH 3 in an individual is the cause or consequence of that individual's sexual orientation, or if the size of INAH 3 and sexual orientation covary under the influence of some third, unidentified variable."
 
augustaB said:
I'm not being defensive. It really is a shit-stirring question

If you're so liberal, how come you don't know any gays.

The hostility arises because this question arouses the same level of feeling as if you had denied the holocaust or said that African Americans came voluntarily to work in America.
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iono, i dont know any black people either. i think there are more blacks %wise than gays, so thats even more weird.

also denying the holocaust or claiming that africans werent slaves is not comperable to asking (legitimately i might add) a sexually liberal forum if those members who CONSIDERED THEMSELVES GAY were born that way.

i realize this issue arouses strong emotions, but its important to realize when its called for to lash out and when its not. save hostility for someone who deserves it.
 
=why im asking for first-hand experiences. does it make sense now??

ill post my paper when its done so all of you haters can have something to chew on. ;)

for now im off to class. please stop arguing with me: if you have nothing to contribute then please dont. id like this thread to stay open please :)
 
AuraithX said:
You are either born straight or gay, no argument about it really. It's a genetic condition. That's why you get gay animals
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You truly beggar belief 8(
I only hope you were joking!
 
SmC said:
I would prefer to say..it can be a choice, but to some its a real battle to accept being gay, you know you are but don't want to accept it...i would hardly call that a choice.
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Actually that was sort of put in there lightheartedely......lol.........mainly because I guess its true to an extent.

However i take your point.

But you also raise another point and Augsta also raised the point which is......... not wanting to accept it.

You see, I think thats societal related............meaning if society didnt give a rats ass who we all screwed etc then it wouldnt be an issue now would it. I guess therefore in a way its a problem that you have allowed yourself. By that I mean, if you truly didnt give a stuff about what society felt then it wouldnt be a problem for you would it?

Of course I realise its not as simple as that..........unfortunately we all have to survive amongst society but lets say that you and your loved one were on a desert island all your lives and knew nothing of societies expectations and bias thinking.........it just wouldnt be an issue........it would be perfectly normal for you.





OH and I would ask everyone to take it a bit easy on wesdmow, I think he is appearing to be struggling with his questions because he is trying so hard to be careful of what he says........ If I thought he was just being an ass then I wouldnt bother with this thread.

Give him a break aye.
 
bromance said:
Wikipedia, despite seeming official, is not some end-all truth source.

The effects of environment, socialization and personal experiences on someone's sexual orientation cannot be denied.
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I take it you didn't bother to look at the wikipedia article then as it clearly states that in it. :|

If you're one of those people that loves to preach "wikipedia is user-editable!" there are plenty of studies cited.
 
No.

I'm bisexual and riding the gay train at the moment though.

Hmmmmm....
 
MazDan said:
OH and I would ask everyone to take it a bit easy on wesdmow, I think he is appearing to be struggling with his questions because he is trying so hard to be careful of what he says........ If I thought he was just being an ass then I wouldnt bother with this thread.

Give him a break aye.
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OKAY, wesdmow I give you a break.

And the answer is: no it's not really a choice.

The choice when I was young was this: should I admit to having sex with other boys at school and get the shit kicked out of me, or should I suppress it? Everybody knew that I was suspect, except me. (Actually I was more girly than gay)
By the way the school was residential and we were incarcerated for three months at a time.
The fear of being exposed was so great that I went to extraordinary lengths to suppress the fact. Nonetheless I succumbed on more than one occasion before I reached age 24.
After age 24 I fell into the hands of religious nutters. They thought I was faggy/girly etc. and I had to be very careful to keep anything like that surpressed.
After I escaped - thoroughly brainwashed - I tried to lead a normal life, married kids etc. except that sex was in many ways incomplete.

Eventually, past the age of 50, I started visiting male prostitutes, just to relive some of those earlier experiences.

A few years ago one of them encouraged me to try XTC and I was able to admit my homosexual feelings to myself.

I had a sort of breakdown, came out, and left my wife and children.

We eventually got back together, after I started to realize that there was also a strong trangender component to my feelings.

I find it deeply upsetting that I was not able to realize how I felt at an earlier age. I realize how difficult it must be for younger people to imagine how much more repressive society used to be in respect of gays.

Rock Hudson for example. If I'd have known he was gay it would have been so much easier to come out.

Liberace went to the grave denying he was gay.

Danny LaRue, a famous British female impersonator denied he was gay until late on his retirement, when it didn't matter any more.

DSM - the US guide to psychiatric disorders - classed gayness as a mental disease until the mid-seventies.

Just a few examples of how different the world is now.
 
What I really don't understand... and try so hard to understand... is how people can not accept gays. I have had people in my life who will openly say "Gays are fucking fags and should die" yet if I ask if they would call a black person a nigger to their face, they say no, that it's wrong. But they think its fine to call someone a faggot. It just blows my mind...

Id NEVER call someone a nigger, spic, what the fuck ever... it disgusts me to even type the words.

And we shouldnt even have the question of "Is homosexuality" a choice in our world, it should just be accepted all around that people are gay/lesbian/bi/straight... I mean if two black people make a baby, that baby was not ASKED what race he should be... it just is. And theres nothing wrong with that. I have a biracial child, you cant really tell at all (Shes Caucasian and Mexican) and I get sooo pissed when people make mexican jokes around me, because that IS my child.

Race is not a choice... and neither is homosexuality... and why there is even discussions about if its a choice, and the stigma of what homosexuals go through in society sickens me, because it should just be accepted.
 
Your either attracted to guys or your not, theres really no debate on whether or not its a choice. The question just helps justify intolerance, as i see it, which is why im always upset when someone asks it or says that you choose to be gay. No you dont choose to be gay.
 
^if this discussion sickens you, you are too weak to the stomach, so to speak. 8)

race is OBVIOUSLY not a choice--a black man cant realistically deny that he is black. a homosexual can. so the question of whether or not homosexuality is a choice is, in my opinion, a legitmate (and age-old) question, simply because those of us who ARENT have NO way of knowing what its like, other than to ask.

like i said, you cant look at someone and know, "oh hes gay" (unless they want you to), so theoretically speaking, it seems like one COULD choose to "be gay."

also, if it helps explain why i have so many threads relating to this issue--its something ive been dealing with since elementary school--im extremely feminine and VERY often mistaken for being gay. maybe thats why i dont have any gay friends...

anyway ive endured a lot of name-calling and a few ass kickings for being a way im NOT!

understandably (at least id think) this leaves me curious as to why anyone would live that way.
 
Amebix said:
Your either attracted to guys or your not, theres really no debate on whether or not its a choice. The question just helps justify intolerance, as i see it, which is why im always upset when someone asks it or says that you choose to be gay. No you dont choose to be gay.
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asking the question does _NOT_ help justify any bigotry. in fact, it does JUST the OPPOSITE, giving those with an understanding of homosexuality to explain it in their terms.

YOU are INFERRING intolerance-- its on your end buddy, try some introspection.8(

why on earth would you get upset for someone asking an innocent question?

also, if you read through the thread, mazdan refutes your claim with personal experience, leading me to believe there is no one universal answer to this question.
 
Yes, HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of males ACTIVELY CHOOSE to be ridiculed every single day for the rest of their lives, be excluded from various aspects of life unfairly, and deny themselves the pleasure of a warm moist pussy because that sounds a a GOOD DECISION.
 
AuraithX said:
I take it you didn't bother to look at the wikipedia article then as it clearly states that in it. :|

If you're one of those people that loves to preach "wikipedia is user-editable!" there are plenty of studies cited.
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No, I did bother to look in the wikipedia article. I'm not disproving anything, I just want to make sure people dont use wikipedia as an absolute truth. The reason I said that was because you said that homosexuality is based fully on genetics. And then you cited wikipedia. I just want to make sure that people see that there are other studies and writings that would beg to differ with genetics fully contributing to sexual orientation.

And by the way, studies don't mean a lot. I could make up a study to prove that you can become gay based on what you eat.

What I'm trying to get at here is that everyone needs to understand that there are A LOT of factors that play into a person's development. Genetics, biology, socialization, everything. They all contribute to how a person is.
 
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Okay fine, ill reword: Im upset when someone says you choose to be gay. Its just not true. Your right, it is intolerant of me to get upset when someone is asking a question without regarding their intentions, i apologize. Im sorry you feel attacked, but the places this question leads to are emotionally charged.
 
I don't mean that the question of if homosexuality is a choice sickens me, what sickens me is those who do not accept homosexuality... who do not see it as a choice and therefore persecute others based on their "choices" that they see that they have made.

Maybe I didn't make that clear enough.

What I meant is that that the fact that we have to even question on whether or not it is a choice is what sickens me... if homosexuality was widely accepted there wouldn't have to be teenagers scared.. wondering if they are gay and if they are, will their parents accept them... will their friends hate them... because so much of society DOES see it as a choice, and that is where I think prejudice kicks in.

I just mean in general... it shouldn't be seen as a choice because to most... I very well guarantee they did not ask to be gay. The very fact that we have to debate it as a choice or not is where I think so much of prejudice regarding gays stems from.

Is that explained better?
 
Jesus, I am really surprised at how closed-minded this forum is. Here is a guy who has never met a gay person in his life, and would like to know more about the lifestyle, the mindset, and all you can do is criticize him? You say he's not liberal because he doesn't know any gay people? Do you know how old he is? Do you know where he lives? From what I've read he hasn't expressed any bigotry, just curiosity. And you've done nothing but snap at him, and tell him that this conversation is only going to promote bigotry.
 
^its funny how that works isnt it? questions regarding racism are treated in the same fashion by those who feel "politically correct."

meeko: i see where youre coming from and wholeheartedly disagree!

in order for ANYTHING to become socially acceptable, especially emotionally charged issues such as this, the ability to discuss it and try to understand other peoples beliefs is INVALUABLE.

ill use sex in general as an example: 100 years ago the very IDEA of this forum (lets just ignore the fact that they had no idea what the internet was...) would be PROPOSTEROUS! PORNOGRAPHIC! PERVERSE!

but by slowly (so to speak.. i think weve progressed quite well) bringing the topic to the publics attention, sex is no longer SUCH a taboo topic. you can discuss it more freely, with less people getting riled up. i think if we treated the hot-button of homosexuality in a similar manner, wed see a similar outcome.

i feel this way about nearly all issues--not just homosexuality, but race, religion, abortion, you name it: theres no reason for it to be taboo to discuss.

basically: open, non-judgemental discussion is the key to disarming bigotry.
 
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