Meth Is crystal meth pure dextro-methamphetamine? Can racemic meth not be crystallized?

[ninjapirateroberts]

I'm relatively new to methamphetamine but have been studying a lot. I have known that meth exists as two optical isomers: levo-methamphetamine (l-meth) and dextro-methamphetamine (d-meth); I recently learned that only d-meth is the "good stuff" but after reading a few posts about how the "crappy" l-meth on their crystal shard made their heart race, etc. (both here and on other websites) I was confused. I was curious if crystal meth, in particular, would be a racemic or pure d-meth (I take therapeutic doses of about ~17mg crystal meth orally most days, except weekends, and I skip some days). I read the FDA-approved meth Desoxyn only contains pure d-meth, which helps with ADHD.

I have been researching whether crystal methamphetamine is a concentrated form of just d-meth or if it could also exist as a racemic. I can't find anything about this online except one ten-year-old Reddit post. A user claimed that racemic meth could exist in the form of powder since optical isomers cannot form crystals. I don't know a lot of chemistry to verify their claim, so from their post, I thought since "meth" can only be in the form of d-meth or racemic (powder), and since I use crystal meth, I'm actually using d-meth, not a racemic. (that was my belief, but I don't know if that's even true), and, of course, no one is interested in l-meth anyway since it doesn't have stimulant properties as d-meth does, so that's thrown out.

Is this correct? Is crystal meth pure d-meth (the same active substance in Desoxyn), and is it not possible to crystalize racemic meth as claimed by this particular user?

 

[ninjapirateroberts]

I came across this PDF from a lab stating that d-isomer is higher in crystal meth (under the section "substances with 80%+ d-isomer of meth"), so does this mean crystal meth cannot be racemic since it cannot crystalize like stated by this Reddit user?

 

[negrogesic]

Racemic methamphetamine wouldn't form nice clear shards like one would expect from enantiomerically pure d-methamphetamine, but they would probably form opaque chunks or rock like clusters.

However d-meth with some smaller proportions of l-methamphetamine can form what people would describe as "crystal meth", as discussed here:

Enantiomer Profiling of Methamphetamine in White Crystal and Tablet Forms (Ma Old) Using LC–MS-MS

Abstract. At the global level, seizures of crystalline methamphetamine (MA) and MA tablets have risen to a new high, indicating that the substance is an im

academic.oup.com

 

[ninjapirateroberts]

Racemic methamphetamine wouldn't form nice clear shards like one would expect from enantiomerically pure d-methamphetamine, but they would probably form opaque chunks or rock like clusters.

However d-meth with some smaller proportions of l-methamphetamine can form what people would describe as "crystal meth", as discussed here:

Enantiomer Profiling of Methamphetamine in White Crystal and Tablet Forms (Ma Old) Using LC–MS-MS

Abstract. At the global level, seizures of crystalline methamphetamine (MA) and MA tablets have risen to a new high, indicating that the substance is an im

academic.oup.com

Interesting, thank you! So racemic forms what they call "cloudy crystals" and not clear crystals. So I guess it is reasonable to say the more "clear" the crystal meth appears, the higher concentration of d-meth it contains compared to cloudy or whitish (or sometimes grayish) crystals (which is probably racemic, so less d-meth concentration).

 

[negrogesic]

Interesting, thank you! So racemic forms what they call "cloudy crystals" and not clear crystals. So I guess it is reasonable to say the more "clear" the crystal meth appears, the higher concentration of d-meth it contains compared to cloudy or whitish (or sometimes grayish) crystals (which is probably racemic, so less d-meth concentration).

Well racemic meth probably wouldn't form anything resembling long crystals, more so just coalesced chunks or rocks at best, so its more than just color.

But something containing say 10% l-meth and 90% d-meth will form a long crystal, but will be less clear and less hard, more prone to breaking up, and more shale like.

 

[G_Chem]

I'm relatively new to methamphetamine but have been studying a lot. I have known that meth exists as two optical isomers: levo-methamphetamine (l-meth) and dextro-methamphetamine (d-meth); I recently learned that only d-meth is the "good stuff" but after reading a few posts about how the "crappy" l-meth on their crystal shard made their heart race, etc. (both here and on other websites) I was confused. I was curious if crystal meth, in particular, would be a racemic or pure d-meth (I take therapeutic doses of about ~17mg crystal meth orally most days, except weekends, and I skip some days). I read the FDA-approved meth Desoxyn only contains pure d-meth, which helps with ADHD.

I have been researching whether crystal methamphetamine is a concentrated form of just d-meth or if it could also exist as a racemic. I can't find anything about this online except one ten-year-old Reddit post. A user claimed that racemic meth could exist in the form of powder since optical isomers cannot form crystals. I don't know a lot of chemistry to verify their claim, so from their post, I thought since "meth" can only be in the form of d-meth or racemic (powder), and since I use crystal meth, I'm actually using d-meth, not a racemic. (that was my belief, but I don't know if that's even true), and, of course, no one is interested in l-meth anyway since it doesn't have stimulant properties as d-meth does, so that's thrown out.

Is this correct? Is crystal meth pure d-meth (the same active substance in Desoxyn), and is it not possible to crystalize racemic meth as claimed by this particular user?

I’d be cautious of what that person says… They called an RP/I a Leuckart which is about as far as one gets from a Leuckart. An RP/I on pseudo is the Nagai method and gives d-meth, a Leuckart involves methyl-formamide on p2p and gives racemic.

I’m not sure if I believe that racemic substances can’t form crystals, look at MDMA. Old biker meth wasn’t a crystal cuz it was impure as fuck.

-GC

 

[ninjapirateroberts]

Well racemic meth probably wouldn't form anything resembling long crystals, more so just coalesced chunks or rocks at best, so its more than just color.

But something containing say 10% l-meth and 90% d-meth will form a long crystal, but will be less clear and less hard, more prone to breaking up, and more shale like.

I'm confused by what you mean by crystals that would look like "rocks" vs. "long" crystals. By long, do you mean length-wise or generally wider?

To better understand to distinguish between purer crystal meth with higher d-meth concentration and racemic crystal meth, I have included various samples of crystal meth I found on the internet. I would appreciate it if you could say which of these samples resemble the purer "long crystal meth" with higher d-meth concentration versus the "rock"-like crystal meth that is most likely racemic.

Samples range from 1 to 5:

So in these above samples, my assessment would be that samples 1, 2, and 5 appear to be purer crystal meth with higher d-meth concentration. And samples 3 and 4 appear to be racemic crystal meth because sample 3 is very cloudy and whitish, and sample 4 looks like a rock.


Am I right in my evaluation? Can you please share your assessment of these samples?

 

[d1nach]

This all sounds extremely risky.

Maybe getting dl phenylethylamine and practicing separating the d and l on that might help. That way no one consumes it and you can just toss it and repeat till you get it down pat.

 

[G_Chem]

I'm confused by what you mean by crystals that would look like "rocks" vs. "long" crystals. By long, do you mean length-wise or generally wider?

To better understand to distinguish between purer crystal meth with higher d-meth concentration and racemic crystal meth, I have included various samples of crystal meth I found on the internet. I would appreciate it if you could say which of these samples resemble the purer "long crystal meth" with higher d-meth concentration versus the "rock"-like crystal meth that is most likely racemic.

Samples range from 1 to 5:

So in these above samples, my assessment would be that samples 1, 2, and 5 appear to be purer crystal meth with higher d-meth concentration. And samples 3 and 4 appear to be racemic crystal meth because sample 3 is very cloudy and whitish, and sample 4 looks like a rock.


Am I right in my evaluation? Can you please share your assessment of these samples?

I think the problem with the pics provided is I believe a lot of that is meth pre 2018 or so.. Meth nowadays forms much blockier crystals than any of the pics I see provided.

-GC

 

[GeorgeWashington]

The stuff I’ve seen lately looked like pic 3 and was absolutely garbage. Smoked great but no euphoria and my heart didn’t like it at all. Plus, I was off the stuff for ten years before getting it. So was not my tolerance. Pics one and two look like some of the best stuff I ever had back around 2010-2014. Really miss that stuff and the brown pill dope

 

[GeorgeWashington]

I think the problem with the pics provided is I believe a lot of that is meth pre 2018 or so.. Meth nowadays forms much blockier crystals than any of the pics I see provided.

-GC

Even the good stuff?

 

[negrogesic]

The stuff I’ve seen lately looked like pic 3 and was absolutely garbage. Smoked great but no euphoria and my heart didn’t like it at all. Plus, I was off the stuff for ten years before getting it. So was not my tolerance. Pics one and two look like some of the best stuff I ever had back around 2010-2014. Really miss that stuff and the brown pill dope

Yeah the stuff I had recently looked like #3. Smoking it was not enjoyable. Large oral doses were decent, but feels hard on the body.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I think the problem with the pics provided is I believe a lot of that is meth pre 2018 or so.. Meth nowadays forms much blockier crystals than any of the pics I see provided.

-GC

Almost ALL of the meth in the US is d-methamphetamine. Small cooks use pseudoephedrine and an amination by reduction using lithium and ammonia, or HI, or lithium and aluminum.

The cartels use P2P but they also separate out the d-methamphetamine using either capillary electrophoresis or chiral acids like tartaric acid.

If you end up with racemic methamphetamine it's because the cook didn't know what they were doing.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yeah the stuff I had recently looked like #3. Smoking it was not enjoyable. Large oral doses were decent, but feels hard on the body.

I think a lot of the things that people think are junk methamphetamine are actually cheap research chemicals. People actually get shipped through customs and then sell it as methamphetamine.

If you don't have Marquis reagent and Simon's reagent, you can't really tell what it is.

And then it could be some sort of amphetamine derivative which would turn orange with Marquis but would not turn blue with simons.

A lot of drug dealers. If they can buy a kilo of some research chemical that's methamphetamine like for $500 or $1000 (which you can do), they'll sell it all day long to make $10,000 a kilo selling ounces for $350.

 

[ninjapirateroberts]

Yeah the stuff I had recently looked like #3. Smoking it was not enjoyable. Large oral doses were decent, but feels hard on the body.

The stuff I used to take orally is #2—in fact, that exact picture is from my vendor. I've since seen a psychologist and am on Vyvanse right now (so I'm no longer self-medicating with meth for my ADHD).

 

[GeorgeWashington]

Almost ALL of the meth in the US is d-methamphetamine. Small cooks use pseudoephedrine and an amination by reduction using lithium and ammonia, or HI, or lithium and aluminum.

The cartels use P2P but they also separate out the d-methamphetamine using either capillary electrophoresis or chiral acids like tartaric acid.

If you end up with racemic methamphetamine it's because the cook didn't know what they were doing.

Isn’t it hard to get the amount of pseudo required? Seems like the red pills are the only ones available at least here

 

[GeorgeWashington]

Yeah the stuff I had recently looked like #3. Smoking it was not enjoyable. Large oral doses were decent, but feels hard on the body.

When I used to do the shit, even when I had a tolerance from years of on and off use, 3 good hits off the chicken bone and I would feel the hairs on my neck stand up and all of a sudden wanted to do everything and talk to everyone. I literally smoked like a half g of this stuff the first night and never got the feeling. And I could go right to sleep after. But if I started doing something like cleaning I had slightly more interest in that than normal. Sounds like the l meth to me but I’m no chemist

 

[negrogesic]

I think a lot of the things that people think are junk methamphetamine are actually cheap research chemicals. People actually get shipped through customs and then sell it as methamphetamine.

If you don't have Marquis reagent and Simon's reagent, you can't really tell what it is.

And then it could be some sort of amphetamine derivative which would turn orange with Marquis but would not turn blue with simons.

A lot of drug dealers. If they can buy a kilo of some research chemical that's methamphetamine like for $500 or $1000 (which you can do), they'll sell it all day long to make $10,000 a kilo selling ounces for $350.

That seems very unlikely considering how dirt cheap methamphetamine has become, much cheaper than RC's. The quantities being pumped out by all the competing mexican superlabs, and the huge shipments that enter the US via land everyday, make methamphetamine far cheaper than flying in some RC stimulant through the mail and attempting to sell it on the street. Not only that, just look on drugsdata.org at the endless number of suspected methamphetamine submissions and see how many are RC's sold as methamphetamine. Not many.

In any event, the stuff I got that resembled #3 in that series of photos tested as "methamphetamine" via GC-MS, but without information on enantiomers or purity. But being far more adrenergic than any crystalline methamphetamine I've ever had, leads me to believe it was not enantiomerically pure. I do think it was mostly enantiomerically pure, like ~90%, but still had enough l-methamphetamine to make it feel notably harsher than pseudoephedrine based pure d-meth.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Isn’t it hard to get the amount of pseudo required? Seems like the red pills are the only ones available at least here

If it's only one person trying to get them of course. But if you have 10, 20, 50 people getting boxes, it's enough to make a reasonable size batch. By that I mean 50 g to 200 g.

 

[negrogesic]

Almost ALL of the meth in the US is d-methamphetamine. Small cooks use pseudoephedrine and an amination by reduction using lithium and ammonia, or HI, or lithium and aluminum.

The cartels use P2P but they also separate out the d-methamphetamine using either capillary electrophoresis or chiral acids like tartaric acid.

If you end up with racemic methamphetamine it's because the cook didn't know what they were doing.

They use the following approach but likely stop at a certain point, and just rock it all together in a mostly enantiomerically pure crystalline form, leaving in at least some l-meth:



Like alot of mexican engineering, they get it to work, but in crude form and cutting as many corners as possible:



To their credit, the meth they make works, and it
is mostly like d-meth, but it definitely doesn't feel like the smooth euphoric meth you get via pseudoephedrine. It's not so bad orally, but when smoked it is edgy, jittery stuff, rather dysphoric. It has a near instant comedown, not pleasant. In fact the high itself sort of resembles the comedown phase of high quality meth. But orally it's tolerable. Was never a big meth fan myself anyhow.