Irresponsible closure of CEP thread

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JGrimez

JGrimez

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You need more mature moderation if the mods cave in to political pressure to not discuss certain issues, and insult people who do bring up certain issues for discussion.

The holocaust thread is from 2009 over a decade ago, with a lot of good information and debate, so why does some relatively new mod get to decide to close it now?

This is censorship and fear.
 
JGrimez said:
You need more mature moderation if the mods cave in to political pressure to not discuss certain issues, and insult people who do bring up certain issues for discussion.

The holocaust thread is from 2009 over a decade ago, with a lot of good information and debate, so why does some relatively new mod get to decide to close it now?

This is censorship and fear.
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Is that the holocaust denial thread I saw? I didn't read it, I didn't want to, I'm happy it closed. Seeing that really did make me feel sick .... It's not censorship, it's common decency, it was one of the most awful effects of war in our history.

Sorry I'm only going off the title and apologies if i might have missed the point completely. Think about people who had family in it, or were from countries involved.
 
JGrimez said:
You need more mature moderation if the mods cave in to political pressure to not discuss certain issues, and insult people who do bring up certain issues for discussion.

The holocaust thread is from 2009 over a decade ago, with a lot of good information and debate, so why does some relatively new mod get to decide to close it now?

This is censorship and fear.
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While I do not agree with all your points, and certainly believe the Holocaust was real, I agree with your sentiment. Everyone should be allowed to say their piece, and censorship isn’t the way.

Unfortunately though this is a forum, not a democracy with freedom of speech, and they get to decide what they’d like their forum to look like from the outside. I could see how a thread of such nature could be bad for business.

-GC
 
geekgrl said:
Is that the holocaust denial thread I saw? I didn't read it, I didn't want to, I'm happy it closed. Seeing that really did make me feel sick .... It's not censorship, it's common decency, it was one of the most awful effects of war in our history.

Sorry I'm only going off the title and apologies if i might have missed the point completely. Think about people who had family in it, or were from countries involved.
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This is a terrible argument. I had family involved in it. That doesn't change the fact of whether some details surrounding it were true or not or whether it should be "allowed" to be discussed. Of course it should be allowed, just go back and read the start of the thread. Why could it be discussed then and not now?

I wrote a reply with solid information that should have at least been added to the thread and was denied. The response was "I don't care whether you are Jewish or not"
 
Fair play, probably not my best words but I was pissed off
 
w01fg4ng said:
If we wanted to censor it we would have deleted the thread.


It ran for 11 years. It's safe to say the thread ran its course.
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It hasn't. And should that be your call to make? I'd rather people be honest and just state this is a censored topic due to fear of being labeled antisemitic.
 
Eh, I think all that needed to be said was said. I don't agree with censorship (even of ideas that I personally find repulsive - like holocaust denial). Ideas like that should be actively disproved and argued against. They have a tendency to fester away below the surface of social discourse if not allowed into the light. With that said, I think there is a fine line between allowing debate and discussion on a controversial topic and allowing a platform for these ideas. I think it was the right call to close it personally (11 years for the topic was more than fair and it wasn't deleted).
 
A bit of background on our operations, which JG knows, but not all readers may be fully aware of:

Mods get their positions based on showing maturity and level headedness over time.
They are the front line to their assigned forum, determining rules and guidelines for the forum (beyond whatever our BLUA addresses) as well as how to enforce those rules
Sr. Staff (Sr. Mods and Admin) have oversight though it is generally exercised as some guiding thoughts, shared experiences, and can reverse a mod decision or action though we generally defer to the forum mods directly engaged.

Bottom lines mods are in place because they earned it. Modsticks don't come from cereal boxes. But they aren't allowed to run amok.

Currently, the thread closure is already a point of discussion among the sr. staff and directly associated mods. Our goal is to allow open discussion based on facts, so that bad information can be countered and all can be educated. The first caveat to this is that people have to be willing to have a discussion, not simply shout from their soapbox with their ear plugs in and their mind closed. Secondly, the discussion needs to remain civil and respectful, not falling into personal attacks = argue the point of discussion, not the person.

Lastly, to the point of censorship, as noted the thread isn't deleted. People have been allowed to have the discussion in the past. But we do have rules and they will be enforced.



We'll get back to you on any changes to the current state of a closed thread.
 
hey, if you don't like it why don't you leave?

this guy gets it:
JGrimez said:
If they don't like the foundations of the USA - then yes they have 194 other places to try to see if they like it better.
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if you don't like how bl is run, there are hundreds of other message boards you can try to see if you like better.

or is that advice only for immigrants and sjw, leftie protestors?

alasdair
 
w01fg4ng said:
Getting upset won't help your cause either, OP
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You should've added my post to the thread. I started writing it before the thread was closed and it was locked when I went to submit it.

My post is factual and contains an argument based on evidence. I don't feel you should have the authority to close that thread as you are:

-a radical leftist

-and uneducated in terms of knowledge of the subject at hand.

You've closed it simply based on your political programming. Which I can understand completely I just disagree with it and I aim to dismantle propagandized narratives. I don't completely agree with the attitude of the poster who rekindled this debate but it is something that we should be allowed to discuss in a civil and respectful manner.

If you think that this subject should not be discussed at all then you shouldn't be moderating political discussion IMHO
 
CEP is mainly frequented by left leaning members so it’s usually biased but it’s a lot better than it used to be. Alasdair and spacejunk fucked it up but it seems better now
 
JGrimez said:
You should've added my post to the thread. I started writing it before the thread was closed and it was locked when I went to submit it.

My post is factual and contains an argument based on evidence. I don't feel you should have the authority to close that thread as you are:

-a radical leftist

-and uneducated in terms of knowledge of the subject at hand.

You've closed it simply based on your political programming. Which I can understand completely I just disagree with it and I aim to dismantle propagandized narratives. I don't completely agree with the attitude of the poster who rekindled this debate but it is something that we should be allowed to discuss in a civil and respectful manner.

If you think that this subject should not be discussed at all then you shouldn't be moderating political discussion IMHO
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To be clear, W0lfg4ng is not a CEPS mod and has not performed any moderation actions there. The thread in question was closed by Mal3volent.
 
Soso78 said:
CEP is mainly frequented by left leaning members so it’s usually biased but it’s a lot better than it used to be. Alasdair and spacejunk fucked it up but it seems better now
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It could have been closed earlier, I suppose. I think they did a fine job anyway.
 
You can see why I sometimes think they are the same person. My bad.

And if it wasn't closed a decade ago then it shouldn't really be closed now. I don't understand any justification for it anyway (apart from dishonest and politicized censorship)
 
JGrimez said:
You can see why I sometimes think they are the same person. My bad.

And if it wasn't closed a decade ago then it shouldn't really be closed now. I don't understand any justification for it anyway (apart from dishonest and politicized censorship)
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Why don't you stop crying about everything? Take responsibility for your own behavior for once.
 
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