I want my own species to light up in hellfire

[socko]

I feel like opiates put up a sort of membrane between yourself and the rest of existence. Things penetrate slowly and incompletely. I felt like I woke from a long sleep after I got clean and wondered where my life had gone.
....Blah. Scatter'd

The possibility of that used to worry me, so I have experimented a little by comparing life on opiates with life during an opiate break. I'm convinced everything still comes through in perfect clarity and speed. The only difference is that opiates can sometimes be like wearing sun glasses on an unbearably bright sunny day on the snow or on the water. You still see it all and know it is very intense. It just isn't as painful.
I suppose it might also depend on how much you take and whether or not you are always going around loaded out of your mind.

 

[Xorkoth]

Addiction to opiates is a huge factor in my experience... when I started using them I was still 100% alive and facing the world, I was just really euphoric sometimes. I did use them without detriment for a time, but then I became addicted and that all changed. If you're able to use opiates without becoming addicted, then maybe they can be a helpful tool for you. I mean I use other drugs to buffer things sometimes to this day (though generally my use is to help enhance and celebrate life these days). But being addicted to opiates is an incredibly life-stealing thing, and I can't imagine that it wouldn't be to someone. The overall amount of negativity and pain I felt was so much greater during those years, even while I was high as a kite, than it has ever been in any other period of my life. At this point I'm sure that even a single use of them would be detrimental to me because of where I got my life to on them, though I am unwilling to attempt it to find out.

 

[socko]

How come the hundreds of thousands of people who are prescribed opiates daily for pain treatment never seem to have it disrupt their lives? They can be taking them for months or years and are by that point physically addicted, yet their lives are OK. At this point, I don't blame the drugs or even the person, but the legal system that creates an artificial shortage and makes them difficult to get. That's where the problems come from.

 

[-=SS=-]

How come the hundreds of thousands of people who are prescribed opiates daily for pain treatment never seem to have it disrupt their lives? They can be taking them for months or years and are by that point physically addicted, yet their lives are OK.

Think you answered your own question. There was a physical need for them and the use was justified, whereas substance abusers are.. well.. abusers.. they come in to it with mental and emotional pain, and that is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Ninae]

This was an interesting chart.

I like the numerical values, not how I usually think of it. But I generally feel it's not worth it unless I'm at least at the acceptance level. Neutrality is one of my least favourite emotions to have. It's almost like strong negative emotions are better as at least you feel alive or feel something.

The love-joy-peace range is familiar when I can free myself of negative emotions but I wonder how different it can be for everyone. Some are said to get addicted to substances as it's the only way for them to feel any joy.

Also, how far up can it go from 700? There can be a real difference in intensity of bliss form what I've seen. But blue feels so preferable to red, which really riles me up.

 

[ForEverAfter]

I'm not fond of charts like that.
It reminds me of that scene in Donnie Darko, with the Love / Hate spectrum.



The numerical values are the worst part.
I mean, I see the value in visual representation.
But, what value do the numbers add?

Love is 500 and Joy is 540?

substance abusers are.. well.. abusers.. they come in to it with mental and emotional pain, and that is a recipe for disaster.

Yep.

It may be difficult for people who've had issues with opiate abuse to see that there is nothing wrong with the drug that ruined their lives. Similarly, people in Alcoholic's Anonymous blame alcohol for their problems. But, really, there are underlying issues that lead people to abuse. It is quite possible to use opiates recreationally, without abusing them. There is nothing wrong with opiates.

In a sense, it can be good for drugs to unearth problems.
People in AA, because they attribute their problems to alcohol, never solve them.
It's counter-productive to say, "this happened to me because of opiates," I think.
If you have bad reactions to alcohol, you need to address the core of your problems.
Then, theoretically, you should be able to return to alcohol without having problems.

I used to think I was an alcoholic.
Yet, now, I can drink in moderation.

I used to think I had a meth problem.
Yet, the last half gram I bought lasted me six weeks and I have no intention of getting any more soon.

The truth is, I wasn't an alcoholic or a meth-addict.
I was just fucked up inside, and - as SS said - that's a bad combo.
I had to test myself, with both drugs, to make sure that I'm okay now.

 

[Xorkoth]

How come the hundreds of thousands of people who are prescribed opiates daily for pain treatment never seem to have it disrupt their lives? They can be taking them for months or years and are by that point physically addicted, yet their lives are OK. At this point, I don't blame the drugs or even the person, but the legal system that creates an artificial shortage and makes them difficult to get. That's where the problems come from.

I can see a difference here... people who use them for pain management are using them for pain management, not to mask other issues in their life. So although they may become physically addicted, it's just a thing for them to deal with, rather than a source of shame and self-loathing. For me, I knew that the only reason I was addicted was because I was being weak. I had no physical pain or anything, I just liked it (though I did have emotional pain as I explain below).

So I guess it's a hard line to draw. I just know that for me, opiate addiction was the worst thing I've ever gone through.

It may be difficult for people who've had issues with opiate abuse to see that there is nothing wrong with the drug that ruined their lives. Similarly, people in Alcoholic's Anonymous blame alcohol for their problems. But, really, there are underlying issues that lead people to abuse. It is quite possible to use opiates recreationally, without abusing them. There is nothing wrong with opiates.

Too true. For me it was to mask the pain of my destructive relationship/marriage, which contained a lot of emotional abuse and weird control issues. I started opiates before that aspect emerged too strongly, but I kept at them, I realized afterwards, because I was unwilling to face the truth - that we needed to not be together.

 

[swilow]

The possibility of that used to worry me, so I have experimented a little by comparing life on opiates with life during an opiate break. I'm convinced everything still comes through in perfect clarity and speed. The only difference is that opiates can sometimes be like wearing sun glasses on an unbearably bright sunny day on the snow or on the water. You still see it all and know it is very intense. It just isn't as painful.
I suppose it might also depend on how much you take and whether or not you are always going around loaded out of your mind.

For me, I was generally using maintenance doses by day with larger doses by night. Low doses still blunt a person; I can't really remember a lot of that time (I was coming of benzo's too so different strokewwaz), and I've had to deal with a lot of odd, unwarranted emotional peaks and shit since then...

Anyway, the whole thing that you stated is what I think of as the problem with opiates. They shield one too effectively from life. The things you are saying are positive are the exact things I think are not. If you keep living behind an emotional buffer, it seems that the human brain will start expecting and needing that buffer. By being detached from the normal intensity of emotion, you sensitise yourself to that normality and it becomes abnormal, and requires more opiates. There are few 'natural' processes of the body that, if interrupted, do not either return magnified or cause other downstream abnormalities. Emotions are processes that should be meddled with with extreme caution IMO.

I don't really understand your question. I think evil is just anything that is harmful to yourself or others, which both have unpleasent consequences, so it's a good idea to avoid it because of that.

You could ask yourself why other people matter. Why should I care about other people and what happens to them.

I require respect and consideration from other people, and try to give it too. But I can't really figure out why I should do so. I feel like it is 'right', to try and be fair and kind to all, but why is that? How can it matter?

It may be difficult for people who've had issues with opiate abuse to see that there is nothing wrong with the drug that ruined their lives. Similarly, people in Alcoholic's Anonymous blame alcohol for their problems. But, really, there are underlying issues that lead people to abuse. It is quite possible to use opiates recreationally, without abusing them. There is nothing wrong with opiates.

I agree there. I still use opiates recreationall every few weeks. 'Guns don't kill people, cuntfaces do'. I still wouldn't recommend them to other people, but I would actively fight if someone was trying to have them banned.

Though a part of me thinks there must be something 'wrong' with something that feels so perfect. A shot of morphine is an incredible experience that I can't ever do again. The only thing wrong with opiates is that they can be dangerous if misused.

 

[Ninae]

The only time I had opiates injected was before an operation. It was the first time I tried anything too. I was very anti-drugs before that, but it kind of changed all that.

 

[tantric]

I love DXM. It's a seriously under-rated drug. I think I might have some tomorrow.
Although, I have to say, meth/opiates don't cause people to hate themselves/others (IMO).
I know a lot of self-hating stoners.

I used to hate the human race, no matter what drug I was on (including MDMA).
Now, I don't hate the human race regardless of drugs or the lack thereof.

Do you think now that you like people, you'd dislike them if you returned to amphetamines/opiates? I don't know your story but I'm tempted to assume that you were abusing these drugs and that the withdrawals and depression that resulted from your abuse caused you to lash out at the world (and yourself).

Drugs aren't bad.
Heroin isn't a bad drug.
It can be misused, sure.
But, it's not bad (IMO).
Neither is alcohol.

i use dopaminergic drugs when i don't want to feel or can't bear what is going on, usually because i'm without friends or companionship. being high on life (and a little herb) is great, but i've found that joy is hollow when you have no one to share it with.

 

[nuttynutskin]

I don't know why, but this thread makes me think of this song for some reason...

 

[swilow]

Where are they?

 

[Noodle]

I'm not sure I feel the need to separate myself from my own with anger.


It may be true that we--as a species--are approaching a density that will strip this planet of a survivable habitat, but we may evolve into another form and leave this starting point behind.


Yes, I actually think that is where our collective existence is headed.


Of course, if interstellar travel is not possible we are doomed to self-annihilation.


Excuse me, while I return to yet another iteration of Star Trek.

 

[Ninae]

“Who is it that loves and who that suffers?
He alone stages a play with Himself.
The individual suffers because he perceives duality.
Find the One everywhere and in everything
and there will be an end to pain and suffering.”

“I find one vast garden spread out all over the universe.
All plants, all human beings, all higher mind bodies
are about in this garden in various ways,
each has his own uniqueness and beauty.
Their presence and variety give me great delight.
Every one of you adds with his special feature to the glory of the garden.”

“God is without form, without quality as well as with form and quality.
Watch and see with what endless variety of beautiful forms
He plays the play of his maya with Himself alone.
The lila of the all pervading One goes on and on in this way in infinite diversity.
He is without beginning and without end.
He is the whole and also the part.
The whole and part together make up real Perfection.”

“He alone knows to whom He will reveal Himself under which form.
By what path and in what manner He attracts any particular man to Himself
with great force is incomprehensible to the hu ma n intellect.
The Path differs indeed for different pilgrims.”

“You should kindle fire by any means,
either with clarified butter or sandalwood or even straw.
Once alight, the fire burns on; all worries, darkness and gloom gradually disappear.
The fire will burn to ash all obstacles.”

“Just as fire burns away all dross and rubbish,
so the three fold suffering purges man’s heart from all impurity
and results in a growing single mindedness in his search after Truth.
When he becomes deeply conscious of his weakness and tormented by the thoughts
of his undesirable impulses and distressing characteristics,
when afflictions like poverty, bereavement or humiliation ma ke him feel his life is futile,
then and then only does he develop real faith and religious fervor,
and becomes anxious to surrender himself at the feet of the Supreme Being.
Suffering should therefore be welcomed.
Never does the soft moonlight appear more soothing than after the scorching heat of a summer day.”

“Always bear this in mind:
Everything is in God’s hands,
and you are His tool to be used by Him as He pleases.
Try to grasp the significance of ‘all is His’
and you will immediately feel free from all burdens.
What will be the result of your surrender to Him?
None will seem alien, all will be your very own Self.”

“To believe in Him under any particular form is not enough.
Accept Him in His numberless forms, shapes and modes of being, in everything that exists.
Aim at the whole and all your actions will be whole.”

– Anandamayi Ma