I Like to Draw Pictures of Random Molecules

[nickfurry]

Do you guys think ring opened methylphenidate analogs would work, like DMAA? Or would they need some double bonds?

Edit: Just noticed that the one to the right, 2-piperidin-2-yl-propionic acid methyl ester, is apparently available on the open market if someone is feeling brave... I sure as hell ain't touching it.

 

[Solipsis]

IIRC phenyl rings are quite different from cyclohexyls that lack the double bonds, as phenyl rings are aromatic systems. The double bonds represent electron pairs, and the three pairs in the ring team up to be shared in a way. They project electronegative charge perpendicular to the ring, which plays a role in a big number of interactions, including ones with receptor pockets >> amino acid residues that for example have their own phenyl ring that can sandwich with the phenyl ring in the ligand.
Hope I paid enough attention in class to reproduce this

Anyway I think you'd have better luck deconstructing the piperidine ring, I actually have no idea whether that ring constrains the amine function spatially, or whether the 'aliphatic' part actually plays a role in receptor binding.

In other news:
please brew me some 4-HO-MALT or an ester of it, even if 4-xxx-DALT wasn't such a success, di allyl mayy be a bit too excessively substituted : P It seems inevitable to me..
I guess asymmetrical substitutions are a little bit more dicey to make, but not sure if there are particular challenges with that.

 

[sekio]

please brew me some 4-HO-MALT

does that become 4-HO-Lager then?

 

[Incunabula]

I don't know what work has been done on methylphenidate analogs (although methylnaphthidate and isopropylphenidate seems to have entered the market recently) and I'm not even interested in stimulants, but looking at methylphenidate there's so many obvious posibilities.

One could attempt to change the benzene ring for any simple aromatic ring.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_aromatic_rings

Or one could attempt to switch the piperidine ring for any five or six-membered heterocyclic ring.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterocyclic_compound

The piperidine ring could be switched for a thiane ring, for instance, or maybe a morpholine ring or maybe a thiomorpholine ring there's so many obvious posibilities, that some one must have thought of it before. maybe it's obviously inactive due to something I don't know?

 

[Dresden]

I guess asymmetrical substitutions are a little bit more dicey to make, but not sure if there are particular challenges with that.

Asymmetrically substituted precursor amines are more expensive--that's all.

 

[Solipsis]

Has the thiophene analogue of methylphenidate been considered? That seems like an obvious modification yet I have not heard about it before..

With MPA I am skeptical since meth is the kind of thing that I don't want the sketchy version of, I would hardly like to try the substance itself (I should have a small sample, may locate it next week).. and I guess the fluorinated versions which I have already tried.
But, with MPH the stakes are a little lower so to speak. Not sure if I am making any sense, but IME choosing which drugs are okay to try can sometimes be a little irrational.

@ Dresden: okay but that moves the 'problem' a step since the higher price probably is explained by it costing more work to make those precursors. So same thing: it is more complicated.

@ Sekio: lol :D

 

[Incunabula]

I never thought much about it, but now I suddenly saw the methamphetamine structure in methylphenidate, lol 8) So how about slapping some flourines on the benzene ring? (a la 2-FMA, 3-FMA, 4-FMA)

It's also fascinating that methylnaphthidate is active, surely must be possible to exchange the benzene ring for a benzofuran, indole,benzothiophene or what have you....?

Edit:
@Solipsis. Don't You think it's better to change the benzene ring for another aromatic six-membered ring, than a five-membered one?

 

[crmt28]

4-HO-DP2yT (N,N-diprop-2-ynyl-4-hydroxytryptamine)

From what I've heard the vinyl/propy-1-nyl shouldn't be possible due to tautomerism, but I'm not sure about this one. Any thoughts?

 

[Dresden]

2-methylamino-1-(pyran-4-yl)-propane.hcl (4-oxa-propylhexedrine).
3,4-dichlorophenethanamine.hcl (dopamine analogue).

 

[Solipsis]

4-HO-DP2yT (N,N-diprop-2-ynyl-4-hydroxytryptamine)

From what I've heard the vinyl/propy-1-nyl shouldn't be possible due to tautomerism, but I'm not sure about this one. Any thoughts?

I think propargyls have been considered and were found to interact with each other adversely (I imagine intermingling / sticking together being both so electron dense at the triple bond)... but perhaps a propargyl combined with an alkyl (methyl, ethyl, propyl) works.

@Solipsis. Don't You think it's better to change the benzene ring for another aromatic six-membered ring, than a five-membered one?

I wouldn't concentrate one-dimensionally on that. If it is a bioisostere because of shape and electronic configuration, it makes the 'swap' effective, as demonstrated by MPA.

Benzofurans and indoles are pretty different from benzene rings, for starters they are polycyclic (multiple rings fused together)... and basically just not bioisosteres as far as I am aware (would be pretty surprised if they were).

I am seeing a lot of ortho-dichlorophenyls lately like Dresden mentions, what are those bioisosteres of - what is the particular effect of that modification?

 

[Dresden]

A lot of compounds like that interact with dopamine receptors in one way or another.
Plus, they cross the blood brain barrier a lot better than dopamine does, depending--again--on what the rest of the molecule looks like.

 

[Soulfake]

Cannabinoid with 3 fluoride punching fists



what happens if you put randomly dimethoxy´s at the phenyl units in drugs like fentanyl or bromadol? (It´s stupid but I like dimethoxy units, probably becouse of the sceletium tortuosum (kanna) alkaloids (mesembrine etc.))

Couldn´t a version of fentanyl in the potency of ocycodon be just as good? I thought those over-potent opioids don´t provide the (non tolerant) user as good experiences as lighter opioids so why don´t they just bring out the weakest analogues of fentanyl, bromadol etc. to the rc market?

edit: search for "marvin beans" (it´s free) the "MarvinSketch" sub-program is really fun to play with and you can learn many things about molecules. There´s also "Jchem" with a program that predicts metabolites etc. but I somehow can´t get it to work, weither online nor the desktop version (java errors at installation etc.).

would this metabolize into phenibut and o-desmethyl-tramadol?

edit: more phenibut things:

phenibut with an extra gaba chain

(I´m on clonitrazolam, always getting creative on benzos)


edit: what would happen if you would take for example if you had 100 similar compounds like different benzodiazepines, to make it easier, of similar strenght like 1mg Alprazolam, 1mg Etizolam, 1mg Flunitrazepam...etc. (or adjusted to equivalent dosages of compounds with different strenght) until you have a mix with 100mg; would this be effective at all? Like instead of a 1mg dose of one compund you get 100x10mcg of different but similar compunds, would they sum up to give a new effects or would the dose of each be too low? I had this question on mind for a long time, I wonder how it could change the pharmacology for different drugs.

 

[SONN]

fascinating question but all I know is I would NEVER take 100 diff benzos at once for any reason whatsoever. I feel like my brain would melt no matter what the dosage.

but I always wondered that about the 2c-x drugs like what would 5mg of all your favorites be like at once but somethings telling me it would be a vasoconstrictive nightmare more than anything

I wish there was some way to make GHB longer or more specifically effect GABA-B agonism but its so simple and perfect there's really no way to change it without fucking it up

 

[Nagelfar]

If anyone wants to draw free license images of various cocaine analogues insofar as they fit the criteria of the following: are 3β-phenyl ring substituted analogues, 2β-substituted analogues, N-modified analogues, 3β-carbamoyl analogues, 3β-alkyl-3-benzyl tropanes, 6/7-substituted cocaines, 6-alkyl-3-benzyl tropanes or piperidine homologues of cocaine...... .....I want to begin to fill out my Wikipedia article "List of cocaine analogues" with more proper images of true analogs. Then when it begins to look more like the "List of phenyltropanes" page, perhaps eventually a "List of methylphenidate analogues" page can be made.

Also the phenyltropanes list page is missing compounds of the "3‚-Alkylphenyltropanes" class, which there should be represented.

Anyone care to make such images here and keep from holding any intellectual claim to them I'll transclude them to the Wikipedia pages mentioned.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[greengummybear]

i totally think that you could use chemicalize.org. the site uses the Creative Commons license and using the information generated shouldn't be illegal.

http://www.chemicalize.org
https://www.creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/

 

[Nagelfar]

i totally think that you could use chemicalize.org. the site uses the Creative Commons license and using the information generated shouldn't be illegal.

http://www.chemicalize.org
https://www.creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/

I just don't have time, I only have 1 hour of computer time at the local library a day at most. Besides, those aren't the standard Wikipedia-style white & black 2D skeleton images like are prevalent/pervasive through the online encyclopedia.

Besides, even if I wanted to, I couldn't save to this library computer, I'm locked out of desktop functions like running or saving from a paint program. Only internet browsing, posting to forums, etc. is enabled.

...

Also, might anyone make a simple B&W 2D image of cocaine with the benzoyl replaced with a phenacyl, and additionally even a tosyl (has anyone heard about these, phenacyl-methyl-ecgonine or tosyl-methyl-ecgonine, in any literature at all?)

 

[Nagelfar]

Maybe if someone knew of an online paint/draw type program or a way to save screen captures directly to an uploaded online site such as photobucket without it having to go through the desktop / be saved to a local drive. Anyone?

 

[greengummybear]

i could take screen shots of chemicalize.org renderings of chemicals and upload them so that you could hot link them. give me a list of chemicals IUPAC names, the requested resolution, size, and file format.

i have a favor to ask in return. the Wikipedia page on 25B-NBOMe mentions the chemical is undergoing human clinical trials. this is misleading about safety. the dose they used in clinical trials was ~10ug. i fear people could make the mistake of thinking the chemical is safe because the chemical is used in human research. the fact human research involves tiny doses and recreational use involves dose over 100 times larger is important. i can find the link you could use as a citation if you could update the article on 25B-NBOMe.

 

[Nagelfar]

i could take screen shots of chemicalize.org renderings of chemicals and upload them so that you could hot link them. give me a list of chemicals IUPAC names, the requested resolution, size, and file format.

I don't think that would work because I need new chemicals (not in their database) drawn.

What I need is mostly those from Singh's SAR of Cocaine paper (45 pages in on the page finder; pg. 970 or so as enumerated on the paper itself: the chemical structures 183a-(through)-d, 184a & b, 185a-d, 186-188 on 'Scheme 42', on pg. 50 (974) structures 196a-o, 197a-g, 198a-e, 199a & b, 200 & 201a-e ... and more down to page 61 or so.)

i have a favor to ask in return. the Wikipedia page on 25B-NBOMe mentions the chemical is undergoing human clinical trials. this is misleading about safety. the dose they used in clinical trials was ~10ug. i fear people could make the mistake of thinking the chemical is safe because the chemical is used in human research. the fact human research involves tiny doses and recreational use involves dose over 100 times larger is important. i can find the link you could use as a citation if you could update the article on 25B-NBOMe.

I could do that but it's off topic, private message me the link and it certainly shouldn't be difficult.

 

[Dresden]

Cannabinoid with 3 fluoride punching fists



what happens if you put randomly dimethoxy´s at the phenyl units in drugs like fentanyl or bromadol? (It´s stupid but I like dimethoxy units, probably becouse of the sceletium tortuosum (kanna) alkaloids (mesembrine etc.))

Couldn´t a version of fentanyl in the potency of ocycodon be just as good? I thought those over-potent opioids don´t provide the (non tolerant) user as good experiences as lighter opioids so why don´t they just bring out the weakest analogues of fentanyl, bromadol etc. to the rc market?

edit: search for "marvin beans" (it´s free) the "MarvinSketch" sub-program is really fun to play with and you can learn many things about molecules. There´s also "Jchem" with a program that predicts metabolites etc. but I somehow can´t get it to work, weither online nor the desktop version (java errors at installation etc.).

would this metabolize into phenibut and o-desmethyl-tramadol?

edit: more phenibut things:

phenibut with an extra gaba chain

(I´m on clonitrazolam, always getting creative on benzos)


edit: what would happen if you would take for example if you had 100 similar compounds like different benzodiazepines, to make it easier, of similar strenght like 1mg Alprazolam, 1mg Etizolam, 1mg Flunitrazepam...etc. (or adjusted to equivalent dosages of compounds with different strenght) until you have a mix with 100mg; would this be effective at all? Like instead of a 1mg dose of one compund you get 100x10mcg of different but similar compunds, would they sum up to give a new effects or would the dose of each be too low? I had this question on mind for a long time, I wonder how it could change the pharmacology for different drugs.

I like your first two fentanyl analogues, but the 3,4-dimethoxy's need to be 3,4-methylenedioxy's, unless you want to go with 3,4,5-trimethoxy's. That might just be awesome.