Recovery I can't go on, I'll go on

[P0kemama]

Sim: Your post displays so much compassion for this poor soul. How sad that she has deteriorated to such a state. How kind of you to show compassion, instead of being judgmental. I am grateful that you are a part of my recovery!

 

[Sixxam]

Sorry bro, I didn't realise. But I've seen it myself. I watched drugs take my best from. From sober to dead in 6 months.

Scary business. I hope she finds her way out.

 

[simco]

Thanks, Sixx and POke. She's a good person; I do hope she can get out. But I'll also be the first to admit that my interest in her welfare is a bit weird. I suspect there's some part of her that reminds me of some part of myself.

 

[P0kemama]

Sim: That would not surprise me. I find the less I am judgmental of others, the more i see the similarities to other addicts. Is there something in particular that strikes a chord with you? Have you to talked to her about your recovery or is she not ready to hear about that yet?

 

[simco]

Sim: That would not surprise me. I find the less I am judgmental of others, the more i see the similarities to other addicts. Is there something in particular that strikes a chord with you? Have you to talked to her about your recovery or is she not ready to hear about that yet?

It's weird, she and I talk about my recovery fairly often...I mean, for the most part I try to minimize talking to her, for obvious reasons. But since we're neighbors, we do chat. And yes, she's very supportive of my attempts to clean up. She always asks how I'm doing, and wonders out loud of I want to avoid her so as not to get triggered. She even asked me for info on the rehab program I went through.

You raise a good question--why do I identify with her?

I think I must see some aspect of myself in her. I'm going to think about this for a while...I think it might be important. Will probably post about it later.


Sim

 

[simco]

Feeling a little crestfallen today. As many of you know, I've gotten fairly involved in NA as part of my recovery, despite serious misgivings about 12-step programs. My motivation has always been to try to take anything useful from any recovery-related resource available to me. Since I live in rural America, NA/AA is the mainstay of local treatment, so I've tried to make my peace with it.

Now, I don't think I'm going to walk away from NA. But over the last couple of days I sure have been feeling like it's a bad fit for me.

In particular, I've finally gotten a sponsor and have started writing out text in response to the NA Stepworking Guide (Step 1). My sponsor is a good guy, but a bit of an absentee landlord. He's simply very busy, so we almost never connect unless we happen to cross paths at a meeting. But that's fine--honestly I prefer a hands-off approach to some of the more intense sponsor/sponsee models. My problem is with the stepwork itself.

"Working Step One" is just making me feel incredibly shitty about myself.

It's hard to tell the difference between intense, uncomfortable (but therapeutic) self examination and gratuitous rehashing of our sins. But by evening yesterday I was pretty sure this exercise had veered into hairshirt territory. This is starting to make me think I need to go back to the drawing board with respect to my relationship with NA. I do value the friendships I've made there. And being involved in the fellowship (simple shit like making coffee, chairing meetings, etc.) does work against my habitual isolation. However, I'm starting to think that the "deeper" involvement of working steps with a sponsor is counterproductive for me.

I suppose there's no need to do anything definitive about this today. This shit sure is making me feel lousy though.

It's not helping that the "civilians" in my life (i.e. My friends and family) have been shaking their fingers at me all week, saying (with no small amount of frustration) that I seem depressed and distant and hurry-the-fuck-up-and-be-better.

All in all, feeling a bit backed into a corner today. It's one of those times that makes you wonder if this whole business of quitting opiates is having an effect on my life that I'm interested in pursuing. Realistically, I'm less depressed than I was when I was using heavily. But weeks like this, it becomes a matter of a pretty nuanced degree.

Sorry for the rant. Just feeling out of gas today.

 

[g0to]

That's good that you found a good sponsor that is involving you with the step-work. My issue with NA/AA has been that the people there, most of them know me from before when i was coming to meeting and still using, and now that i am no longer on a daily heroin/meth+g regimen (it got REALLY bad) and have all this natural energy, they think I am still on something. So been having some trust issues with them (whats new... thats in every facet of my life anyway). I think as soon as I find a good sponsor and start working steps I will be really doing much better though. One of the mind-killers is loneliness, and I have found ways to overcome that through family, staying in touch with friends, introspective experiences etc... but it is time I start to work the steps as well.

Treat others how they want to be treated, but more importantly, treat yourself and others how you DESERVE to be treated. Sometimes, and it is a very touchy topic, it is a necessary to rehash past drug experiences once sober, if anything to work through the slight trauma that can be caused by sketchy situations during these periods. Sure it can be a trigger to use, but that for me meant I just simply wasn't ready to stop yet. Give yourself time, distance, most importantly give yourself options and don't pidgeon hole yourself into one program (using, NA, work, etc)... otherwise the same issues will pop up time and time again and even though youre no longer using you may feel the exact same feeling of hopelessness as when you were. Just my $.02.

 

[simco]

Thanks, g0to...that was really helpful to hear. I'll try to take your advice to heart.

Sim

 

[P0kemama]

Interesting posts about 12 step groups. I was at a women's meeting this morning, and the chairperson shared about "rumors" going around the fellowship about here, and she was very distressed. She seems like a good person... has service positions, talks to newcomers like me, has a sponsor, sponsees.... IDK... that stuff can push me out of the room, and yet this early in recovery I do want to be in meetings to help distract me and pass the time. Getting sick of people's meaness and crap is one of the many reasons I isolated and turned to drugs in the first place, so I guess I need to work on keeping healthy boundaries at meetings and not getting caught up in the drama.

I like what g0to wrote about basically not putting all my eggs in one basket... I use BL as well, but need to add more options to my everyday life.

 

[simco]

Interesting posts about 12 step groups. I was at a women's meeting this morning, and the chairperson shared about "rumors" going around the fellowship about here, and she was very distressed. She seems like a good person... has service positions, talks to newcomers like me, has a sponsor, sponsees.... IDK... that stuff can push me out of the room, and yet this early in recovery I do want to be in meetings to help distract me and pass the time. Getting sick of people's meaness and crap is one of the many reasons I isolated and turned to drugs in the first place, so I guess I need to work on keeping healthy boundaries at meetings and not getting caught up in the drama.

I like what g0to wrote about basically not putting all my eggs in one basket... I use BL as well, but need to add more options to my everyday life.

Absolutely. I feel like the last thing I want to add to my life now is more drama. Setting healthy boundaries--not just with people, but with groups, programs, etc.--is a big part of keeping the crazy out.

And yes, I try to keep my proverbial eggs spread among many baskets. Alternatively, I like to say my approach to support in recovery is based on an 'all of the above' perspective.

Thanks, POke!

 

[kaya_9]

Simco- I read the thread and want to say how great it is that you're pushing through it. You've dealt with some major shit going on in addition to the daily battle. I just wanted to leave this here for you to look into..or anyone else too


http://aromeditation.org/


It is a completely free go at your own pace meditation course..It eventually gets quite deep, but even a little will go a long way. Just 5-10 minutes a day will do ya good. It's a way of 'checking out' without all the shit that goes with dope. Sounds like you're needing some down time, and this can definitely be a way. You may be surprised at the difference it makes. Start small and just get into the habit, and soon you will be wanting it for how it makes you feel/realize other things. Sounds like, despite the difficulties you're plugging through, that you need to be getting in touch with your true Self...the one that been plodding along getting you through this....Remember that the 'little self'/aka ego is always going to want to do the driving, but the inner self can learn recognize this fabrication and always, has the final say...You have been doing this all along in your recovery, but it is powerful to get in touch with that reality.

All the best Simco, and everyone in this thread. You all are dealing with some serious battling to realize your potential...most people never even get close..they go through life blind.
You all are great for fighting this fight.


*Also, about the dream....It may be that you feel a connection with your neighbor and the addiction/using aspect that you have not felt with your wife. You mentioned in several place where she has been limited in understanding, etc...This intimacy with the user could be a reflection of that...Just an observation. Peace bro.

 

[simco]

Damn, kaya...that is some good insight. Thank you! I don't know how I didn't think about the dream in the way you suggest. Totally makes sense. And I'll give that site a looking into. Meditation is something I've flirted with for a long time, but my thinking has always gone so fast that it never really worked out for me. Maybe something more guided/structured will help.

Thanks again, man. I'm so glad you've started posting here on SL!

sim

 

[kaya_9]

Damn, kaya...that is some good insight. Thank you! I don't know how I didn't think about the dream in the way you suggest. Totally makes sense. And I'll give that site a looking into. Meditation is something I've flirted with for a long time, but my thinking has always gone so fast that it never really worked out for me. Maybe something more guided/structured will help.

Thanks again, man. I'm so glad you've started posting here on SL!

Thanks mangg...I'm actually a womb-man

... Something that always helps me when I'm feeling like shit is to think of allll the things I'm grateful for in Life....the people, the things, the music, the plants, the food, you get it...every thing. It helps. I mean, shit, we could be in Syria right now...or North Korea....and THAT shit we don't have to deal with...so yeah. although there's a lot of OTHER shit to deal with, it could be way worse...heh.

 

[simco]

Hey, Kaya. Sorry for calling you a dude!

I do try to reflect on the positive things in my life, much like you suggested. My problem is that that this works OK when I'm feeling pretty on top of things. But once my mood drops, it gets real hard real fast for me to keep the exercise going. I suppose it takes practice, like most things worth doing.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Recovery is all about practice my friend. Shit, as it involves learned sets of skills, it very much is most accurately characterized as a practice

Simco- I read the thread and want to say how great it is that you're pushing through it. You've dealt with some major shit going on in addition to the daily battle. I just wanted to leave this here for you to look into..or anyone else too


http://aromeditation.org/


It is a completely free go at your own pace meditation course..It eventually gets quite deep, but even a little will go a long way. Just 5-10 minutes a day will do ya good. It's a way of 'checking out' without all the shit that goes with dope. Sounds like you're needing some down time, and this can definitely be a way. You may be surprised at the difference it makes. Start small and just get into the habit, and soon you will be wanting it for how it makes you feel/realize other things. Sounds like, despite the difficulties you're plugging through, that you need to be getting in touch with your true Self...the one that been plodding along getting you through this....Remember that the 'little self'/aka ego is always going to want to do the driving, but the inner self can learn recognize this fabrication and always, has the final say...You have been doing this all along in your recovery, but it is powerful to get in touch with that reality.

All the best Simco, and everyone in this thread. You all are dealing with some serious battling to realize your potential...most people never even get close..they go through life blind.
You all are great for fighting this fight.


*Also, about the dream....It may be that you feel a connection with your neighbor and the addiction/using aspect that you have not felt with your wife. You mentioned in several place where she has been limited in understanding, etc...This intimacy with the user could be a reflection of that...Just an observation. Peace bro.

Not to derail simco's beautiful thread, but I'm curious, where did you hear about this? Do you know where they are based? I like the looks of their course syllabus, it's a very straight forward introduction to what looks suspiciously like vipassana Bookmarked!

Feeling a little crestfallen today. As many of you know, I've gotten fairly involved in NA as part of my recovery, despite serious misgivings about 12-step programs. My motivation has always been to try to take anything useful from any recovery-related resource available to me. Since I live in rural America, NA/AA is the mainstay of local treatment, so I've tried to make my peace with it.

Now, I don't think I'm going to walk away from NA. But over the last couple of days I sure have been feeling like it's a bad fit for me.

In particular, I've finally gotten a sponsor and have started writing out text in response to the NA Stepworking Guide (Step 1). My sponsor is a good guy, but a bit of an absentee landlord. He's simply very busy, so we almost never connect unless we happen to cross paths at a meeting. But that's fine--honestly I prefer a hands-off approach to some of the more intense sponsor/sponsee models. My problem is with the stepwork itself.

"Working Step One" is just making me feel incredibly shitty about myself.

It's hard to tell the difference between intense, uncomfortable (but therapeutic) self examination and gratuitous rehashing of our sins. But by evening yesterday I was pretty sure this exercise had veered into hairshirt territory. This is starting to make me think I need to go back to the drawing board with respect to my relationship with NA. I do value the friendships I've made there. And being involved in the fellowship (simple shit like making coffee, chairing meetings, etc.) does work against my habitual isolation. However, I'm starting to think that the "deeper" involvement of working steps with a sponsor is counterproductive for me.

I suppose there's no need to do anything definitive about this today. This shit sure is making me feel lousy though.

It's not helping that the "civilians" in my life (i.e. My friends and family) have been shaking their fingers at me all week, saying (with no small amount of frustration) that I seem depressed and distant and hurry-the-fuck-up-and-be-better.

All in all, feeling a bit backed into a corner today. It's one of those times that makes you wonder if this whole business of quitting opiates is having an effect on my life that I'm interested in pursuing. Realistically, I'm less depressed than I was when I was using heavily. But weeks like this, it becomes a matter of a pretty nuanced degree.

Sorry for the rant. Just feeling out of gas today.

Honestly, this is a big part of why I didn't pursue 12 step work longer than I did (and I did put in over a year of effort). The way every sponsor I worked with, perhaps with the exception of one (who would have been a great sponsor if he wasn't a POS womanizer, hypocrite, etc, perhaps similar to your absentee landlord sponsor in some ways) did nothing to help me deal with how much of a POS the step work made me feel like. I mean, shit, I've always been hard on myself.

Something I've heard is that the right sponsor for an individual is someone the potential sponsee wants to emulate as a person and human being. Sadly, it's hard to get to know a potential sponsor well enough to figure this out, as it's hardly something that is self evident most of the time (there are some obvious warning signs given the specifics of what one is looking for, but even then folks in long term recovery (okay, but this I really just mean a few years) that continue to involve themselves heavily in 12 step groups often tend to have a lot of skeletons in their closet and issues generally (I mean, let's remember the kinds of people non-professional recovery communities attract the most - people with serious often unaddressed issues).

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that perhaps you might do well to look into a new sponsor. Or try taking a step back from your involvement in NA while you sort some other kind of therapeutic support you find meaningful out. I'm sorry to hear you've been down simco. Keep your head up!

Whether or not you stick it out in NA (they can be good at guilting those of us who decide to leave the fold) really doesn't matter. What matters is you do what is right for you.

 

[simco]

Thanks, TPD. I've decided to take a step back from NA at this point. My current plan is not to leave completely. But I am gonna cut back on my involvement. Mainly, I'm going to back off from having a sponsor and doing stepwork. Yeah, the stepwork is just making me feel shitty about myself, and I do a good enough job of that on my own .

I've also decided that I need to force myself to exercise again...regular exercise does wonders for my general outlook. Just got back from the gym and should be feeling nice n sore very soon. Yum.

 

[Jabberwocky]

That sounds like a great plan! You know yourself better than anyone. Follow your gut, and keep up the good work

 

[herbavore]

"Working Step One" is just making me feel incredibly shitty about myself.

It's hard to tell the difference between intense, uncomfortable (but therapeutic) self examination and gratuitous rehashing of our sins. But by evening yesterday I was pretty sure this exercise had veered into hairshirt territory. This is starting to make me think I need to go back to the drawing board with respect to my relationship with NA. I do value the friendships I've made there. And being involved in the fellowship (simple shit like making coffee, chairing meetings, etc.) does work against my habitual isolation. However, I'm starting to think that the "deeper" involvement of working steps with a sponsor is counterproductive for me.

I read this yesterday and then couldn't get it off my mind.

I have had to really explore the difference between guilt ("putting on the hair-shirt" as you so aptly call it) and responsibility or "owning" my actions. Like any parent, I made mistakes. I lived for my kids and loved them each unconditionally but that does not mean I never lost my patience or said things I regret saying or even acted selfishly putting my needs over theirs at times. When my son faced addiction in his life I blamed myself. Years before he faced addiction he dealt with mental health issues, mostly extreme anxiety but also depression and manic episodes. I blamed myself for that, too. It was actually a very good Buddhist therapist along with al-anon that helped me sort out, at least rationally, the difference between guilt and remorse. Remorse is taking responsibility for actions that you regret and that is a healthy way to face yourself and learn from mistakes. Guilt is going one step further and inflicting shame on yourself, something most of us do not do to others but seem to default to in our own minds. So maybe it is not step one that is presenting the difficulty but rather your process with how you been conditioned to handle remorse. We live in one of the most blaming societies ever. It should come as no surprise that we do not have a healthy way to differentiate between guilt/shame and regret/remorse. I found that my tolerance and acceptance of others skyrocketed once I realized how much I withheld acceptance of my own less than perfect self. I still have moments when I enter that horrible courtroom in my own head--the one where its all deja vu and I already know the jury's verdict is guilty--but I have learned to let those times come and go.

 

[kaya_9]

Recovery is all about practice my friend. Shit, as it involves learned sets of skills, it very much is most accurately characterized as a practice



Not to derail simco's beautiful thread, but I'm curious, where did you hear about this? Do you know where they are based? I like the looks of their course syllabus, it's a very straight forward introduction to what looks suspiciously like vipassana Bookmarked!

Yar, I found it a couple years ago when I was looking for a practice, but one I could do in steps when I was ready to go deeper. They take quite of bit of material/explanation from the book 'Roaring Silence'. Very good, and have been quite pleased with it. Glad you found it helpful!


https://www.amazon.com/Roaring-Silence-Discovering-Mind-Dzogchen/dp/1570629447

 

[Jabberwocky]

I read this yesterday and then couldn't get it off my mind.

I have had to really explore the difference between guilt ("putting on the hair-shirt" as you so aptly call it) and responsibility or "owning" my actions. Like any parent, I made mistakes. I lived for my kids and loved them each unconditionally but that does not mean I never lost my patience or said things I regret saying or even acted selfishly putting my needs over theirs at times. When my son faced addiction in his life I blamed myself. Years before he faced addiction he dealt with mental health issues, mostly extreme anxiety but also depression and manic episodes. I blamed myself for that, too. It was actually a very good Buddhist therapist along with al-anon that helped me sort out, at least rationally, the difference between guilt and remorse. Remorse is taking responsibility for actions that you regret and that is a healthy way to face yourself and learn from mistakes. Guilt is going one step further and inflicting shame on yourself, something most of us do not do to others but seem to default to in our own minds. So maybe it is not step one that is presenting the difficulty but rather your process with how you been conditioned to handle remorse. We live in one of the most blaming societies ever. It should come as no surprise that we do not have a healthy way to differentiate between guilt/shame and regret/remorse. I found that my tolerance and acceptance of others skyrocketed once I realized how much I withheld acceptance of my own less than perfect self. I still have moments when I enter that horrible courtroom in my own head--the one where its all deja vu and I already know the jury's verdict is guilty--but I have learned to let those times come and go.

I really love what you write here herby. Emotions are so nuanced, yet we learn so little about them in American culture. Some of you will probably will recognize me having mentioned this before, but I really resonate with what one of my teachers like to say about shame: the most effective way of accomplishing nothing.

Yar, I found it a couple years ago when I was looking for a practice, but one I could do in steps when I was ready to go deeper. They take quite of bit of material/explanation from the book 'Roaring Silence'. Very good, and have been quite pleased with it. Glad you found it helpful!


https://www.amazon.com/Roaring-Silence-Discovering-Mind-Dzogchen/dp/1570629447

Ah-hah! Now I understand why that looked so familiar. I haven't really read the book, but I've worked with people who found it helpful. There is something to be said for having a community IRL to work and meditate with on a regular basis, but the structure of many programs can be oppressive - particularly in the beginning when we are all developing at our own pace.

There is an intensive practice program at UCLA that is intended to be a year long thing, but I've turned it into part of a four year course of study there focused solely on cultivating my own practice and developing the skills to facilitate secular mindfulness education. Sometimes it feels funny sitting in on the same classes time and again (not to mention challenging for the teachers, but that is my job as their student, right?), but honestly that is how I get so much out of it.

It's like Thich Nhat Hanh's whole thing about planting seeds or how the stuff we get out of going on a retreat will only really come home in terms of its value months after the fact. With practice consistency and regularity is important, but it is most definitely quality over quantity with this stuff IME. Development is funny and wonderfully unpredictable sometimes like that.