Opioids How does a short term Suboxone taper work w/Oxycodone withdrawal?

[kayaker318]

Hi,
I'm getting ready to go off my oxycodone once again. Third times a charm? I thought this time I would incorporate Suboxone to help with withdrawals. I don't want to stay on it long term.

I am taking 10mg of oxy/a day plus 5mg of kratom. Is it possible to do a short term Suboxone to get off these drugs while also using the usual withdrawal aids ie gabapentin, loperamide, clonidine, etc.? I didn't do Suboxone the other two times because I didn't want to trade one drug dependency for another. And the last time I used kratom for getting off oxy but then I couldn't get off the kratom. ugh. I'm trying to do something different this time since the definition of insanity is ...well you know.

Can anyone help me figure this out? I am currently trying to find a doctor who will RX suboxone via telehealth. I suffer from chronic migrianes but at this point I know that oxy and kratom isn't helping my pain levels and I'm just physically dependent on them. Also, I have been on opioids for over ten years.

Thank you kind folks!

 

[damagedun]

Hi,

Yes you can do a short taper with Suboxone. I've done it many time from Oxy. The MOST IMPORTANT thing is to wait until you are super sick to take it (minimum 24 hours with oxy). If you take it to soo you will be thrown into precip WD which is the worst thing in the world. I would stick to something like:
Day1: 4mg
Day2: 4mg
Day3: 2mg
Day4: 2mg
Day5: 1mg
Day6: .5mg
Day7: Skip
Day8: .5mg

This is short enough where you won't become dependent on the subs. Most doctor will try and prescribe like 16mgs a day but that is just overkill and make it more difficult to get off the suboxone. Please remember to wait long enough to take the suboxone or you will regret it. Best of luck to you and I hope you can get clean!

 

[kayaker318]

Hi,

Yes you can do a short taper with Suboxone. I've done it many time from Oxy. The MOST IMPORTANT thing is to wait until you are super sick to take it (minimum 24 hours with oxy). If you take it to soo you will be thrown into precip WD which is the worst thing in the world. I would stick to something like:
Day1: 4mg
Day2: 4mg
Day3: 2mg
Day4: 2mg
Day5: 1mg
Day6: .5mg
Day7: Skip
Day8: .5mg

This is short enough where you won't become dependent on the subs. Most doctor will try and prescribe like 16mgs a day but that is just overkill and make it more difficult to get off the suboxone. Please remember to wait long enough to take the suboxone or you will regret it. Best of luck to you and I hope you can get clean!

thanks @damagedun that's very helpful.
can I still take other meds during the 24 hour period of withdrawal and then while taking the suboxone? like clonidine, clonazepam (very low dose), gabapentin? in other words non-opioids? Obviously I would not take kratom either.

 

[Las Veghost grower]

You can take anything but an opiate as far as I know…but just be careful is really easy to justify to yourself staying on it longer, make up a timeline you’ll be on it say 5 days, and stop at 5 days, and dont try to get high off the subs by snorting them or whatever, that always ends badly

 

[hydroazuanacaine]

10mg a typo? if that’s actually how much you’re taking a day, absolutely do not taper with subs. even if you’re taking 100mg a day, i’d be hesitant. i guess if you have a doc overseeing it and cannot obtain subs outside of your script.

best of luck.

 

[kayaker318]

10mg a typo? if that’s actually how much you’re taking a day, absolutely do not taper with subs. even if you’re taking 100mg a day, i’d be hesitant. i guess if you have a doc overseeing it and cannot obtain subs outside of your script.

best of luck.

hey @hydroazuanacaine I'm not sure exactly you mean. Are you saying just don't use suboxone? I am at an extremely low dose of oxycodone. I take 5mg/twice a day. The last two times I went through detox on my own it was really rough. I know it's still going to be rough but I thought by going to a doctor locally that I could get on the suboxone for a brief period and then wean off quickly. Plus it would be nice to have some medical support this time around since my pain clinic just tells me to decrease a little each week with no other advice at all. My local provider offers telehealth services and is a psychiatric mental health nurse practioner in with doctors.

 

[kayaker318]

You can take anything but an opiate as far as I know…but just be careful is really easy to justify to yourself staying on it longer, make up a timeline you’ll be on it say 5 days, and stop at 5 days, and dont try to get high off the subs by snorting them or whatever, that always ends badly

Thanks @Las Veghost grower
Do you think the subs help make withdrawal easier? I was hoping so.

 

[Las Veghost grower]

Thanks @Las Veghost grower
Do you think the subs help make withdrawal easier? I was hoping so.

Yep, if you really want to get out of it easy do a quick taper, I would typically start with 8-16mg of sub depending on my habit, then cut in half everyday till I’m at about .5, then you can switch to kratom for 2-3 days at 1/2 -1 tbsp a day, by the time your done with the kratom your feeling pretty good without anything

 

[kayaker318]

Yep, if you really want to get out of it easy do a quick taper, I would typically start with 8-16mg of sub depending on my habit, then cut in half everyday till I’m at about .5, then you can switch to kratom for 2-3 days at 1/2 -1 tbsp a day, by the time your done with the kratom your feeling pretty good without anything

That sounds like a good plan. Thanks! I do take kratom on a daily basis now and used it the last time to withdraw. But that was rough. I think it just delayed the withdrawal effects of the oxy. Who knows? So I guess that means I should not take any kratom within the 24 hour-ish window of withdrawals prior to starting suboxone? I feel like if I top off my withdrawal regimen with kratom I'll be back on it again.

 

[hydroazuanacaine]

i would not use suboxone.

lean on the gabapentin, imodium, and other comfort drugs. long-term, consistent use can make getting off an opiate painful even if the dose is low, but subs are a way bigger habit than you currently have to deal with. any real dose of suboxone is many fold more potent than 10mg of oxy. you’ll be going in the wrong direction.

if you want additional medical support, see if you can get insurance to cover some therapy sessions. might be extremely helpful.

 

[Las Veghost grower]

That sounds like a good plan. Thanks! I do take kratom on a daily basis now and used it the last time to withdraw. But that was rough. I think it just delayed the withdrawal effects of the oxy. Who knows? So I guess that means I should not take any kratom within the 24 hour-ish window of withdrawals prior to starting suboxone? I feel like if I top off my withdrawal regimen with kratom I'll be back on it again.

Oh, didn’t realize you were already dependent on kratom, might not work out well if that’s the case…when I did it I had never really used kratom before …you could substitute the kratom for tramadol if you can get it tho…are you trying to stop kratom too or just the oxy and continue to use kratom ?

 

[darvocet21]

Hi,
I'm getting ready to go off my oxycodone once again. Third times a charm? I thought this time I would incorporate Suboxone to help with withdrawals. I don't want to stay on it long term.

I am taking 10mg of oxy/a day plus 5mg of kratom. Is it possible to do a short term Suboxone to get off these drugs while also using the usual withdrawal aids ie gabapentin, loperamide, clonidine, etc.? I didn't do Suboxone the other two times because I didn't want to trade one drug dependency for another. And the last time I used kratom for getting off oxy but then I couldn't get off the kratom. ugh. I'm trying to do something different this time since the definition of insanity is ...well you know.

Can anyone help me figure this out? I am currently trying to find a doctor who will RX suboxone via telehealth. I suffer from chronic migrianes but at this point I know that oxy and kratom isn't helping my pain levels and I'm just physically dependent on them. Also, I have been on opioids for over ten years.

Thank you kind folks!

I can recommend this website. They're professionals who follow the 3As that used to be taught in medical schools which are essential in a good doctor: ability, affability and availability. I'd add affordability too. Be aware they have access to your Rx records of any controlled substances you're taking, so it doesn't help to omit them when they ask in the intake paper work.

Also why not change that ratio in the weeks before Suboxone until you're taking 2:1 Kratom to oxy...also lowering doses by breaking the tablets. The transitioning would be easier when you initiate Suboxone which you could do by titrating small .5 mg doses until you relieve your symptoms... and once stabilized only take when you need it and preferably for no more than 7 to 10 days. Also you can stop without a taper because of the enormous bonding affinity and slow clearance rate of buprenorphine pharmacokinetics

 

[kayaker318]

Oh, didn’t realize you were already dependent on kratom, might not work out well if that’s the case…when I did it I had never really used kratom before …you could substitute the kratom for tramadol if you can get it tho…are you trying to stop kratom too or just the oxy and continue to use kratom ?

Trying to stop the Kratom too. Otherwise yes would be great to use for withdrawal for folks who aren’t regularly taking it. In my opinion.

 

[kayaker318]

i would not use suboxone.

lean on the gabapentin, imodium, and other comfort drugs. long-term, consistent use can make getting off an opiate painful even if the dose is low, but subs are a way bigger habit than you currently have to deal with. any real dose of suboxone is many fold more potent than 10mg of oxy. you’ll be going in the wrong direction.

if you want additional medical support, see if you can get insurance to cover some therapy sessions. might be extremely helpful.

Very eye opening...thank you. I'm estimating that my daily dose of oxy is roughly 20mg a day total. I averaged in the approximate converson of kratom to oxycodone. So I guess you're saying even lower daily doses of oxy are not worth using suboxone for withdrawal treatment. The Mental Health provider that I plan to see has doctors and therapists within the practice. I definitely intend to go to therapy.

 

[kayaker318]

I can recommend this website. They're professionals who follow the 3As that used to be taught in medical schools which are essential in a good doctor: ability, affability and availability. I'd add affordability too. Be aware they have access to your Rx records of any controlled substances you're taking, so it doesn't help to omit them when they ask in the intake paper work.

Also why not change that ratio in the weeks before Suboxone until you're taking 2:1 Kratom to oxy...also lowering doses by breaking the tablets. Because then you're going to be transitioning for easier when you do try the Suboxone which you could Begin by titrating small .5 mg doses until you relieve your symptoms it could be one and a half milligrams or could be 3 mg of Vicodin 5 mg they've stabilized on but it should only be when you need it and first no more than 7 to 10 days. Also you can stop without a taper because of the enormous bonding infinity and nice smooth tapering as a result of buprenorphine pharmacokinetics

hey @darvocet21 could you give me the name of the website? Or maybe I'm missing something. It sounds really helpful.
And, yes I like that idea of decreasing slowly prior to suboxone. My appointment isn't for 3 weeks so I have a bit of time.

 

[darvocet21]

I can recommend this website.

Medication-Assisted Treatment | QuickMD

quick.md

They're professionals who follow the 3As that used to be taught in medical schools which are essential in a good doctor: ability, affability and availability. I'd add affordability too. Be aware they have access to your Rx records of any controlled substances you're taking, so it doesn't help to omit them when they ask in the intake paper work.

Also why not change that ratio in the weeks before Suboxone until you're taking 2:1 Kratom to oxy...also lowering doses by breaking the tablets. Because then you're going to be transitioning for easier when you do try the Suboxone which you could Begin by titrating small .5 mg doses until you relieve your symptoms it could be one and a half milligrams or could be 3 mg of Vicodin 5 mg they've stabilized on but it should only be when you need it and first no more than 7 to 10 days. Also you can stop without a taper because of the enormous bonding infinity and nice smooth tapering as a result of buprenorphine pharmacokinetics

 

[SoFknDone]

Hi,

Yes you can do a short taper with Suboxone. I've done it many time from Oxy. The MOST IMPORTANT thing is to wait until you are super sick to take it (minimum 24 hours with oxy). If you take it to soo you will be thrown into precip WD which is the worst thing in the world. I would stick to something like:
Day1: 4mg
Day2: 4mg
Day3: 2mg
Day4: 2mg
Day5: 1mg
Day6: .5mg
Day7: Skip
Day8: .5mg

This is short enough where you won't become dependent on the subs. Most doctor will try and prescribe like 16mgs a day but that is just overkill and make it more difficult to get off the suboxone. Please remember to wait long enough to take the suboxone or you will regret it. Best of luck to you and I hope you can get clean!

I know this is an old post, but I’m hoping you’re still around and will see the is because I had a few questions!

Backstory:
I was taking 15-30+ hydrocodone/Oxy/Oxy ER (150-300mg+ most days, occasionally up to 500mg/day of hydrocodone) for like the past 2 1/2 years, and 3-6 norco/day for like 5 years before that (clearly before the addiction started. )

I finally decided I was over everything that came along with the addiction and that it was time to stop— but I’m currently a stay at home mom of 3 (9 months, 6 years, and 8 years old) and there’s NO way I could be sick AF going thru WD’s while taking care of them 24/7!!! My friend/dealer told me about her daughter kicking without being sick using suboxone strips, so I bought some from her. The plan was to use the strips just to avoid the WD’s and then stop taking them (5-10 days tops)…

I tapered my first dose up to 6mg to achieve total WD relief, and have been taking 6-9mg/day with occasional days of 12mg since then, so for 18 days. I take 6mg (1/2 a 12mg strip) some time between 1pm and 4pm, whenever I start feeling like I need it, and then usually in the evenings I’ll take a 2-3mg piece when my pain starts getting bad. If I’m up super late, don’t sleep at all one night, or am out doing a lot I’ll usually end up taking another 2-3mg piece, or if it’s a big busy day (out & about, parties, etc.) then I’ve taken 6mg twice a day.
It has helped me tremendously with both eliminating WD’s AND significantly reducing my pain, especially the really bad OIH/hyperalgesia I was dealing with (the first day i actually had zero pain!!!)!! I was seriously considering just taking them long term for my pain, especially since the cost would only be like 1/60 - 1/30 of what I was paying before!
But I have read a ton online, especially finding this forum, after starting them and I’m SERIOUSLY regretting ever starting them to kick because I had NO idea subs were harder to kick/a worse WD than the pills when I started taking them!! Now that I know, I’m stressed tf out about the potential MONTH long WD and I want to taper off ASAP!

Questions:
1. Do you know how long you have to be on suboxone for your body to become dependent on it to the point where it would cause WD’s when stopping? Is 3-4 weeks long enough??

2. Do you have a recommended taper schedule for kicking them quickly at this stage?

3. Do you think going from suboxone strips to a 15mcg/hr (15mg total over 7 days) Butrans patch would be easier to take and then stop completely after the 7 days?


One of the biggest things I noticed when I stopped the pills and could see clearly/self reflect was that I was constantly on edge and snappy, stressing about when/where/how I could come up with money for more pills or get them in time to avoid feeling sick, and how that effected my kids/husband/everyone. It has felt great to not feel that way for a while, but now I’m right back there and even more stressed!

Sorry this was so much longer than I expected.

Have a fun and safe holiday weekend y’all!

 

[eggstatic]

I'm pretty much on the same boat as you, I was on 5mg oxy ir after my acl surgery, my surgeon kept giving me refills, i never knew what a WD felt like i was on them for 4 months straight about 60-80mg a day, I would take two in the am before work and 2 or one after lunch and when i got home i would take 4 at a time (20mg). I decided to quit cold turkey while I was already home from work with covid (why not use that time to WD as well). I did and felt terrible prob due to having covid at the same time I decided to quit and go through WD's from hell. I'm also on 2mg Xanax for anxiety and Vyvanse 40mg for my adhd. I managed to not take any opioid for about 5 months until injured my other knee month ago, hospital sent me to my surgeon and he once again prescribed me oxy. I knew I should've said something and asked for something else, but I was in pain with a partially torn meniscus and decided to fill it in case I "Needed" it. worst mistake.

3 days ago I started tapering down on the oxy and im literally just taking it right when I wake up because im waking up in WD and then i take another 5mg oxy when i start to really feel the wd which starts to happen in 8hr intervals. problem is im down to my last 3 5mg oxy. I Took only one this morning and took 2mg of Xanax and 2 unisom sleep aid and im not feeling terrible.

Yes, that whole back story had a point lol
I was feeling irritable last night and had goose bums and all the mild to moderate WD so I decided to google "Help with opioid withdraws", and "QuickMD" popped up basically offering a almost painless way to get off opioids without having to call off work. "Suboxone: aka "buprenorphine-naloxone", it was a 10 min video chat if that, I told him how I had been tapering off and he just said ok, and prescribed me suboxone 8mg/2mg TWICE a day. After reading a bunch about it I for one feel like he gave me a dosage that's to high and he gave me a 2 week fill. I dont even know if i can break it in half. I'm honestly just thinking of feeling like shit for the next 8 days and get through with vitamins and maybe taking 2.5 of the oxy in the am and then 2.5 in pm with some xanax to help wd symptoms.
SO HONESTLY I MAY NOT TOUCH THE SUB just because i dont want to trade one addiction for another.

 

[eggstatic]

]

Hi,

Yes you can do a short taper with Suboxone. I've done it many time from Oxy. The MOST IMPORTANT thing is to wait until you are super sick to take it (minimum 24 hours with oxy). If you take it to soo you will be thrown into precip WD which is the worst thing in the world. I would stick to something like:
Day1: 4mg
Day2: 4mg
Day3: 2mg
Day4: 2mg
Day5: 1mg
Day6: .5mg
Day7: Skip
Day8: .5mg

This is short enough where you won't become dependent on the subs. Most doctor will try and prescribe like 16mgs a day but that is just overkill and make it more difficult to get off the suboxone. Please remember to wait long enough to take the suboxone or you will regret it. Best of luck to you and I hope you can get cleanca

 

[eggstatic]

Can I cut a 8mg/2mg tab ? and just take half ? if i end up needing it ?