How common is the purge on ayahuasca?

[afer]

It appears that there is a strong individual factor regarding nausea and puking...some kind of intestinal sensitivity that overlaps various psychedelics. So if one can can barely hold down, say, fresh mushrooms, then it is almost guaranteed that Ayahuasca will establish a strong spiritual connection with porcelain god in that person...That is what I've noticed anyway.

 

[phuckingnutz]

It appears that there is a strong individual factor regarding nausea and puking...some kind of intestinal sensitivity that overlaps various psychedelics. So if one can can barely hold down, say, fresh mushrooms, then it is almost guaranteed that Ayahuasca will establish a strong spiritual connection with porcelain god in that person...That is what I've noticed anyway.

Yeah, for some reason i can no longer take acetylated tryps ue to nausea issues that were brought on, i believe, by using large IM doses of 4-AcO-DMT.
the problem has also affected my ability to enjoy my oral DMT as well...i think i did something to my 5-HT3 receptor system or some such shit like that...i know it really sucks ass cause i hate to feel nauseous.
want to try pharmahuasca, but can't seem to find moclobemide here.

 

[Goddess Mode]

The purge is part of it and should not be avoided. If you don't want to purge, dont use ayahuasca. Instead, dissolve some DMT into a couple mililiters of warm milk and plug it with a syringe.

Well, I'm going to avoid it anyway. As I already said in my first post, I don't agree with the view that it's necessary to the experience, and I also really don't care for the attitude that so many DMT users seem to have that you either treat it the "right" way or not at all. There is no such thing as a set way to experience a drug, and it's absurd to suggest that there would be.

Also, I've tried the IM route already and really found no desire to repeat it. I would just end up smoking it all before I did that again.

I don't necessarily agree with that statement. Obviously it should be accepted that throwing up is a common and probable event, but that doesn't mean you have to want to puke to want to do ayahuasca. As long as the preventative measures aren't toxic, who cares?

I understand and have felt the relief of nausea and shitty body load after puking at the start of a trip (on other psychedelics) and it definitely isn't as bad as it's made out to be, but I don't think it's crucial for having a great trip. I definitely understand the purging metaphor and how that way of ritually interpreting it can be helpful, but it's still a metaphor.

^^ This. And for me, those healing metaphors happen almost any time I do anything on any psychedelic. No vomit required.

When I took ayahuasca, I did it with two other friends and all three of us puked. While I don't think its IMPOSSIBLE to hold down, you can definitely anticipate that there will be some purging during the comeup. It isn't like a horrible nauseous "oh my god this is so bad" type of feeling like LSA. It's more like "hmm, I think I need to...one sec....BLEEEUURRRGGHHHH ok I feel tons better now and ready to trip " And FWIW, the trip is VERY VERY VERY much worth the initial purge.

If you're super concerned about the nausea may I recommend pharmahuasca? DMT taken orally with an MAOI. Take some Syrian rue with some DMT orally and it will give you an ayahuasca-type experience. While I did get a bit nauseous from the Syrian rue, I did not puke, and the body load is not as intense as drinking the brew.

It's funny that you mention LSA, because it's my most recent trip (morning glory seeds and LSD) that has made me particularly hesitant to take anything with bad nausea again lol. Another fear I have is that even if I do get nauseous from ayahuasca, I may not throw up ever or get that feeling of release and relief, and I'll just be uncomfortable the whole time. It takes a LOT to make me puke, and that has almost invariably been my experience with any nauseous drug experience in the past. I'm actually much more worried about not being able to get it all up than I am about not being able to hold it down, I just don't want to be nauseous at all in the first place. Though really, even if it was just that easy release at the beginning, I would still much rather avoid it all together. If the ayahuasca trip turns out to be one I really enjoy then I'm the kind of person who will end up doing it a lot, and unlike some dedicated users, I don't believe that throwing up often is in any way good for you, no matter how much stress it might release in the moment.

I probably will end up using pharmahuasca after reading all of the responses to this thread. If possible, I'd still like to take it with moclobemide for the fewest issues possible. I did a little more reading on it and it definitely sounds like something that could be just what I need. I may still try some small doses of rue or caapi first though just to see how my stomach reacts. For all I know, it might not even be a problem for me. Only time will tell!

I can consume the same batch of mimosa hostilis (tea) normally and vomit every time or boil it down until its a dry crust on a frying pan, crush it up, and encapsulate it, and almost never feel nausea. I've consumed both ways over a dozen times each. I should note that when I encapsulate it, it takes more to reach the same level, the onset takes much longer, and the duration is at least twice as long. If you dry it out, make sure you turn down the stove heat to the lowest low when the liquid gets really shallow to avoid burning it.

As others have noted, the purge is traditionally part of the experience. I think it can be an important part of the trip if you're hoping ayahuasca can help you get past something psychologically. In such a case it may help to think of vomiting as "purging" your hang-ups, dysfunctional perspectives, etc. That said, I've had some fantastic ayahuasca experiences without getting sick.

That actually sounds great, the capsules way I mean.... I'm really not worried about needing more material, and the duration being twice as long actually sounds fantastic. Thanks for the tip! That's likely how I'll end up going about it the first time considering that.

I totally get how the puking could be psychologically useful too, because as I've said, I can get that sort of emotional release even from going to the bathroom (and even once from puking) on LSD. But it's because of that that I really don't find it necessary at all.... I will get all sorts of resolutions to personal issues like that on pretty much any psychedelic experience no matter what I do, puke or not. I won't feel like I'm missing anything at all from the experience without the purge.

I would say the purge is way overrated and can be avoided in a number of ways.
First, use Syrian Rue (3-5 grams of ground seeds) instead of B. Caapi. I tried caapi once...ONLY once and it was a miserable puke/shit fest.
Second, use an egg white tek to get rid of tannins as well as a freeze tek to get rid of even more.

I've used this method 50-60..? times and have only puked 8-10 of those times.
I've only done extracted DMT orally once and it was lacking some of the depth that the full spectrum brew provides...like the difference btwn mushies and 4-PO-DMT.

Anyway...not an answer to your actual question... but there it is...

How much caapi did you use? Like I said above I probably will try it at least once just to see how I react to it, though you certainly don't make it sound too appealing.... I'll definitely have to try that egg white tek since you're the second person to mention it and I'd never even heard of it before, and the freeze tek too! 8-10 times sounds like a pretty good number, it'll probably be even less for me given how my stomach normally reacts to drugs.... I'll probably still try mixing it with something like ginger too for added effects too. With all these tips under my belt I'm sure I'll be able to get myself to an experience that will be satisfying for me.

I actually wouldn't mind doing just the extracted DMT too, for the same reason I'm interested in both cacti and pure mescaline. I can see how it would lack depth though.... I've heard lots of people say that mimosa is fuller than DMT alone. More colorful and visionary, from what I hear

It appears that there is a strong individual factor regarding nausea and puking...some kind of intestinal sensitivity that overlaps various psychedelics. So if one can can barely hold down, say, fresh mushrooms, then it is almost guaranteed that Ayahuasca will establish a strong spiritual connection with porcelain god in that person...That is what I've noticed anyway.

Mushrooms have never made me even remotely nauseous, or given me any sort of physical discomfort whatsoever, but I haven't had fresh ones. But as I've said in this post, I almost never puke on anything ever. I just sort of expected to with ayahuasca given how people talk about the purge.

Yeah, for some reason i can no longer take acetylated tryps ue to nausea issues that were brought on, i believe, by using large IM doses of 4-AcO-DMT.
the problem has also affected my ability to enjoy my oral DMT as well...i think i did something to my 5-HT3 receptor system or some such shit like that...i know it really sucks ass cause i hate to feel nauseous.
want to try pharmahuasca, but can't seem to find moclobemide here.

Are you sure it's not psychosomatic? As far as I know 5-substituted tryptamines are really the only ones that interact with 5-HT3. Perhaps your mind is just bringing up those feelings again because you're entering a similar state of mind?

I'm really interested in moclobemide more than anything right now too. I may have to find a way to get some....

 

[phuckingnutz]

Are you sure it's not psychosomatic? As far as I know 5-substituted tryptamines are really the only ones that interact with 5-HT3. Perhaps your mind is just bringing up those feelings again because you're entering a similar state of mind?

I'm really interested in moclobemide more than anything right now too. I may have to find a way to get some....

Pretty sure...I mean if it was a little nausea, i'd say yes, maybe all in my head, but after a few particularly high IM doses 100-120 mg 4-AcO-Dmt each of which came with a heavy nausea body load...just assumed it was normal at the dosage level, but after that I tried even small doses of 4-AcO-DMT, 4-AcO-MET, and a couple other acetylated tryps and couldn't take a small enough amount so as not to feel like shit.
On top of that, even a tiny dose 20-30 mg of 4-AcO-DMT after those heavy sessions, then i'd trip balls to the fucking wall...more so even than at the previous higher doses.
I couldn't do a small enough amount and not be at a +++.
Then the last time I tried mimosahuasca...fucking sick...then extracted DMT/Rue...sick as i've evr been on any drug....so now i'm gun-shy.
I can do 200+mg IM DMT and never even a twinge of nausea, or 4-HO-DET...no nausea there either, but add Rue to the mix and....BLECHHH...URRRP...WTF ???

Sorry for the hijacked thread...i just got on a roll.
...and, NO, the purge is NOT necessary for a succesful session.

 

[Goddess Mode]

Hmm, well I know psilocin doesn't bind to 5-HT3, but I honestly can't say about 4-AcO tryptamines; if it was a more regular dose I would say it probably doesn't bind to 5-HT3 either but considering the amount you used and by which route of administration, anything's certainly possible, and it wouldn't be the furthest stretch of the imagination.... But I mean, at those doses it could be anything, even the 5-HT2A agonism itself could be responsible, who knows? One thing I can say for sure is that what you've experienced with tripping even harder on subsequent small doses than you did on previous huge doses was that the exact same thing has happened for me with LSD - four hits now makes me trip harder than twenty did before - and LSD is definitely known not to bind to 5-HT3 significantly even in massive doses. So if it *was* the 5-HT2A agonism causing it, maybe some functional activity largely exhibited by 4-AcO tryptamines, then maybe that would make sense since 5-HT2A seems to have this reverse tolerance kind of effect...? Ahh I don't know, sucks though....

Next time try using lemon oil or a higher dose of ginger with it, or, if you can get it, ondansetron. That should give you some idea of whether or not it's 5-HT3, as those should all inhibit the nausea at least somewhat if it is.

 

[pengoz]

Take a aya enema?

Will the dmt etc still get absorbed and prevent vomiting as it doesn't enter your stomach? Or is this a recipe for disaster as it needs to go in the other way so it can filter out stuff?

 

[Goddess Mode]

If you're someone who gets nauseous from smoking harmalas, I can't imagine that would really help. The stomach doesn't seem to be the only possible source of nausea with aya. It might help with tannins and stuff, but I really have no idea. For all I know it could turn out like a DXM enema, which is... not pretty.