How common is the purge on ayahuasca?

[Goddess Mode]

I always hear people talking about the purge on ayahuasca, but how common is it really? Can you expect to throw up pretty much every time you use it, or is it just an every now and then thing? If you don't puke is there generally still nausea? And if so, what are some good ways to remove it without altering the experience?

I have a growing interest in trying ayahuasca, but I'd really rather avoid that part. I know people say the purge is a good thing because the physical release translates into the psychological and emotional, but I think that's a pretty flimsy excuse honestly. I could say the same thing about going to the bathroom on LSD. I would rather have my trips be vomit-free.

 

[afer]

I have drunk aya around 10 times or so, but only puked once, this was after consuming the brew made with Diplopterys cabrerana. Did not happen with Psychotria viridis and Mimosa hostilis. There was always some degree of nausea regardless...
You can diminish the nausea a little by 1)meticulously filtering, decanting and egg-whiting the brew(this helps with mimosa) or 2)taking antiemetics, which I do not advocate since it is not known how these interact with MAOI.
Overall though, if you are put off by gastrointestinal issues, I would suggest trying something different than ayahuasca. It is really not recreational.

 

[Goddess Mode]

Hmm, I see.... If it's just a *little* bit of nausea usually then I might be willing to try it, I can do the filtering with mimosa and try mixing in some ginger or something.... I feel like datura seeds might help but I'm worried they may also detract from the experience a little bit, especially if the harmalas potentiate them.... Deliriants remove some of the color and profundity of psychedelics for me.

But yeah, body issues tend to ruin a trip for me.... It's the harmalas that cause the nausea though, right? I am curious about what they can do too, but I'd be lying if I said I was really interested in ayahuasca for any reason other than the thought of a longer, more developed DMT trip. Is there nausea if you take it with something like moclobemide?

 

[afer]

Yes, I recall reading somewhere that harmalas directly cause nausea upon contact with your stomach lining. Yet I got a little nauseous when smoking harmalas also...
If you are looking for a more developed DMT trip then just enhance some leaf material with both DMT and harmalas and then smoke that. There will be minimal somatic discomfort and a nice 30 minute long trip. Ayahuasca is physically gruesome for me. I used to drink it simply because there was nothing else available at the time... as nonspiritual as it sounds.

 

[Goddess Mode]

Huh, they must work through multiple mechanisms of action to cause it.... I'm interested in the enhanced leaf too, but that wouldn't give me what I'm looking for in this case. I want the full oral experience, with a slow comeup and a trip lasting several hours. The way you say "minimal" discomfort makes me a little hesitant too... and the oral experience sounds terrible the way you put it, I would rather stay sober than trip like that.... I'm still curious about moclobemide though. DMT itself feels totally clean to me, so if something like that merely made it orally active without adding any effects of its own that would be fantastic.

 

[Asante]

The purge is part of it and should not be avoided. If you don't want to purge, dont use ayahuasca. Instead, dissolve some DMT into a couple mililiters of warm milk and plug it with a syringe.

 

[professseur]

The purge is part of it and should not be avoided. If you don't want to purge, dont use ayahuasca. Instead, dissolve some DMT into a couple mililiters of warm milk and plug it with a syringe.

I don't necessarily agree with that statement. Obviously it should be accepted that throwing up is a common and probable event, but that doesn't mean you have to want to puke to want to do ayahuasca. As long as the preventative measures aren't toxic, who cares?

I understand and have felt the relief of nausea and shitty body load after puking at the start of a trip (on other psychedelics) and it definitely isn't as bad as it's made out to be, but I don't think it's crucial for having a great trip. I definitely understand the purging metaphor and how that way of ritually interpreting it can be helpful, but it's still a metaphor.

 

[I B Profane]

When I took ayahuasca, I did it with two other friends and all three of us puked. While I don't think its IMPOSSIBLE to hold down, you can definitely anticipate that there will be some purging during the comeup. It isn't like a horrible nauseous "oh my god this is so bad" type of feeling like LSA. It's more like "hmm, I think I need to...one sec....BLEEEUURRRGGHHHH ok I feel tons better now and ready to trip " And FWIW, the trip is VERY VERY VERY much worth the initial purge.

If you're super concerned about the nausea may I recommend pharmahuasca? DMT taken orally with an MAOI. Take some Syrian rue with some DMT orally and it will give you an ayahuasca-type experience. While I did get a bit nauseous from the Syrian rue, I did not puke, and the body load is not as intense as drinking the brew.

 

[psood0nym]

I can consume the same batch of mimosa hostilis (tea) normally and vomit every time or boil it down until its a dry crust on a frying pan, crush it up, and encapsulate it, and almost never feel nausea. I've consumed both ways over a dozen times each. I should note that when I encapsulate it, it takes more to reach the same level, the onset takes much longer, and the duration is at least twice as long. If you dry it out, make sure you turn down the stove heat to the lowest low when the liquid gets really shallow to avoid burning it.

As others have noted, the purge is traditionally part of the experience. I think it can be an important part of the trip if you're hoping ayahuasca can help you get past something psychologically. In such a case it may help to think of vomiting as "purging" your hang-ups, dysfunctional perspectives, etc. That said, I've had some fantastic ayahuasca experiences without getting sick.

Yes, I recall reading somewhere that harmalas directly cause nausea upon contact with your stomach lining.

This isn't the case for me. I've consumed up to 10 grams of ground up harmala seed and never felt a hint of nausea (though I did feel a mild weird "high" off of it). I've read doing a cold water extraction of mimosa hostilis will pull less of the tannins in the bark, and that will help reduce or eliminate nausea (do this in the fridge over a few days, since if it's not kept cold it will spoil and smell terrible). I've used synthetic DMT orally with hamala seed and didn't feel nauseated so I think it's something in the plants, or possibly something in the plants in combination with harmala alkaloids.

 

[pmoseman]

It is very common. Purge is induced near the effective dose by serotonin's stimulation of the vagis nerve (Gable 2006).

 

[psood0nym]

^Then why isn't it more common to puke on serotonin releasers or other serotomimetic psychedelics (or DMT smoked) if that's the rationale you're referencing?

 

[pmoseman]

I have no idea. Certain serotonin receptors?

 

[phuckingnutz]

I would say the purge is way overrated and can be avoided in a number of ways.
First, use Syrian Rue (3-5 grams of ground seeds) instead of B. Caapi. I tried caapi once...ONLY once and it was a miserable puke/shit fest.
Second, use an egg white tek to get rid of tannins as well as a freeze tek to get rid of even more.

I've used this method 50-60..? times and have only puked 8-10 of those times.
I've only done extracted DMT orally once and it was lacking some of the depth that the full spectrum brew provides...like the difference btwn mushies and 4-PO-DMT.

Anyway...not an answer to your actual question... but there it is...

 

[pmoseman]

Puking 16% of the time would be considered "very common".

 

[psood0nym]

...like the difference btwn mushies and 4-PO-DMT.
...I've only done extracted DMT orally once and it was lacking some of the depth that the full spectrum brew provides.

You've tried 4-PO-DMT? I've only ever heard of it being given in academic experiments, and I've only heard of psilocin (4-ho-DMT) being offered once. Or are you referring to 4-AcO-DMT, the compound, if I recall correctly, that was produced as an easier to synthesize theoretical substitute for 4-PO-DMT (or psiocybin) in experiments? I tried synthetic DMT with harmala and it was not nearly as rewarding as harmala/mimosa hostilis. The latter has these surges of effects that are absolutely thrilling, whereas the oral DMT was interesting but steady; not to say it wasn't worthwhile, just not ayahuasca-level. It's just one experience but if I had to guess from that I'd say there is something else in the plants. It's weird though, since both psychotria viridis and mimosa hostilis seem to possess whatever I think this is. I've suspected these "surges" are DMT contacting new lengths of intestine, since I've noticed them occurring after rolling over in bed during ayahuasca experiences (gravity forcing the liquid to "drop" to new lengths of intestine). There's a lot more liquid and organic material in ayahuasca than there was in my synthetic DMT/harmala seed dose, so maybe that's relevant.

Puking 16% of the time would be considered "very common".

I wouldn't consider that very common. Consider drugs that are considered to "commonly" cause nausea like aMT, 5-MeO-aMT, mescaline, or 2C-T-7. Assuming his method reduces vomiting from 100 percent of the time to 16 percent (8 divided by 60 from phuckingnutz post) that seems like good anecdotal evidence that it works.

 

[phuckingnutz]

You've tried 4-PO-DMT? I've only ever heard of it being given in academic experiments, and I've only heard of psilocin (4-ho-DMT) being offered once. Or are you referring to 4-AcO-DMT, the compound, if I recall correctly, that was produced as an easier to synthesize theoretical substitute for 4-PO-DMT (or psiocybin) in experiments?

touche' psood...just an example, to illustrate theatthere is synergy at play... how about honey oil vs synthetic THC?

Does that​ offend your delicate sensibilities?

 

[psood0nym]

touche' psood...just an example, to illustrate theatthere is synergy at play... how about honey oil vs synthetic THC?

Does that​ offend your delicate sensibilities?

I was just curious about anybody who has tried 4-PO-DMT, in case it is different than 4-AcO-DMT. Do you say my "delicate sensibilities" based off my last post in this thread or a general reading of my posts? I can understand either, but I just want to know.

 

[phuckingnutz]

Just the last post man...seemed nit-picky, but that coulda just been my delicate sensibilities being offended.

Peace brother.

 

[pmoseman]

Well let's back it up a second. Where did 100% come from?

 

[phuckingnutz]

Well let's back it up a second. Where did 100% come from?

i think the 100% was a baseline starting point to get a rough idea of puking frequency...you couldn't very well start at say...87% w/o some reason so you just assume it's 100% and go from there...maybe...?