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How common is Candy Flipping

C

croaker260

Greenlighter
Joined
Aug 18, 2018
Messages
5
Hey all,

Full disclosure, I am a paramedic training officer and am doing research in regards to a rash of calls we have had lately. "Rash" may be an overstatement, but let's call them more common than normal. Below is a typical email I have received, edited for privacy concerns.

Hey [NAME REDACTED] can you dig up any info on ?LSD? ODs that have been going on in the county. I had one a few weeks ago that was like no acid trip I have ever seen. He was hallucinating (normal) but combative like badly combative. [LOCAL LE] used their body wrap to restrain him. We gave max versed but still fighting. We took him to [LOCAL HOSPITAL] where he stayed for only a few hours and snapped out of it quickly per RNs. I heard from other crews about their LSD ODs that went just as bad. And it sounds like they had one last night at the [LOCAL FESTIVAL TYPE EVENT] . I dont know if it?s LSD mixed with PCP or bath salts or what but it is weird and strange and street drugs so I thought of you let me know what you find out..
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The local concern is there is "tainted" LSD, but certainly, it could be an intentional combination instead. I realize there are a lot of potential combinations, but in our local area we have always had a methamphetamine and bath salts as a problem for EMS. Therefore, the logic is if these are available separately, it would be the most likely combination.

Does this sound like Candyflipping, and if so, how common is this? Could this be something else? The recreational duration seems rather short to me, (< 8 hours?) but we do not have a great timeline established with these calls.

What say you guys, any input?

Many Thanks.
 
I'm sure you will get a lot of replies, that being said it would be hard to identify a drug online. Though I do hope you get some useful information.
Thank you for helping people and your service.

Does bath salts refer to novel psychoactive substances (Research Chemicals) in general, or is it more specific like PCP-derivatives?
 
Among people that take LSD and MDMA, taking both at once (candyflipping) is fairly common. To me it sounds more like the person might have taken something other than LSD for example NBOME or NBOH which is sometimes passed off as LSD since it can fit on blotter. USUALLY candyflipping is extremely euphoric and IMO makes the chances of a negative trip way less.

Check out the stickied topic at the top of the Psychedelic forum:
http://bluelight.org/vb/threads/724566-Important-NBOMe-warning-Taking-unknown-blotters-sold-as-LSD
 
SheWasLvL18 said:
I'm sure you will get a lot of replies, that being said it would be hard to identify a drug online. Though I do hope you get some useful information.
Thank you for helping people and your service.

Does bath salts refer to novel psychoactive substances (Research Chemicals) in general, or is it more specific like PCP-derivatives?
Click to expand...

It refers to the general class of synthetic cathinones. Narrowing it down to MDPV, MCAT, or other more specific generations is not generally available to us in EMS, and we seldom hear back from the pathologist even when they do test for specifics, which is uncommon.

Thanks for the reply.
 
+96+ said:
Among people that take LSD and MDMA, taking both at once (candyflipping) is fairly common. To me it sounds more like the person might have taken something other than LSD for example NBOME or NBOH which is sometimes passed off as LSD since it can fit on blotter. USUALLY candyflipping is extremely euphoric and IMO makes the chances of a negative trip way less.

Check out the stickied topic at the top of the Psychedelic forum:
http://bluelight.org/vb/threads/724566-Important-NBOMe-warning-Taking-unknown-blotters-sold-as-LSD
Click to expand...

Many thanks, checking out the link now, and the extensive comments. Any information on how common the incidence of an excited delirium type of presentation would be on these compounds (NBOH and NBOME)?
 
Hey man, many of the "bath salt" type chemicals they fearmonger about aren't even being produced anymore in china and/or are readily available in the USA (if thats where you are). Like, people that actually WANT MDPV, apv, random cathinone etc etc, can't even find them anymore. So it seems a stretch they are still being pumped out (illegally for not much money because of small demand) in China. Who knows what random bullshit stimulant cathinone they are sending now. You an thank our asshole government for this whack a mole bull shit.

It could just be high doses LSD blotter. Say a person is used to a 60ug tab, so they take 3 every time. Then their connect gets 120ug tabs, and they STILL take 3 tabs. So now they are at 360ug of LSD vs 180ugLSD which is a biiiiiig difference, especially if you aren't expecting it.

I'm not much up on NBOH and NBOME compounds. Honestly I think there is MAYBE one vendor I use that I could still get a NBOH product from . Now if they are sourcing from China who knows. The NBOME as LSD thing seems to have waned off. Especially since there are labs making Lysergamide analogs now. ie: LSZ Al LAD ALD 52 1p-lsd, eth-lad etc etc. You see. since we have so many chemicals that are "legal" that are almost the basic same as LSD there isn't as much of a market for NBOME type tabs etc.

I've candy flipped, and yeah, I don't see that being your areas problem. Unless they are taking 250ug LSD tabs and 250mg MDMA, but even then... I don't know if they'd even be able to move at that point. Now if they mixed LSD and methamphetamine or some random cathinone/stimulant who the fuck nows how crazy they could get.

I would page one LSDMDMA&AMP as he liked combing meth and LSD (one of the only ones that posted here I recall), but unfortunatly Andrew passed away a week or so ago. May you feel the peace you lacked on this plain brother :)

It almost sounds like LSD mixed with some kind of dissaociative. Those are getting kinda hard to come by in the USA as well now, so I dunno. My most crazy fucked off trips have always had a dissociative on the back end. It's like it give you the manic energy to just push through and keep doing stupid shit even blacked out and shit like that It's weird stuff.

Just for grins and giggle I will pm you a link to a personal story of mine. I dunno if it be of any use though. On second thought.I'll post it publicly, as the first response to my thread is from a bluelighter who resides in the shrine. Perhaps a few more from that post as well. Perhaps they deserve our thoughts

https://bluelight.org/vb/threads/60...c-110mg-mxe-80mg4-aco-dmt?highlight=ifuckedup

That's how I broke my hip. I would like to say I learned my lesson, but did basically the same shit a year later and got a 5 year prison sentence. I am not trying to brag, but if any of my stupid decisions can help someone, have at it yall!
 
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croaker260 said:
Many thanks, checking out the link now, and the extensive comments. Any information on how common the incidence of an excited delirium type of presentation would be on these compounds (NBOH and NBOME)?
Click to expand...

No problem. Delirium states seem common/possible with overdoses of it, overdoses often happening when people take it under the impression that it's LSD.

https://thedrugclassroom.com/video/25i-nbome/

Mental effects
Experience reports for 25I-NBOMe span the range from bliss and introspection to terror and confusion. If you stick to a common dose, it can be a fairly clear-headed psychedelic. Whereas using a strong+ dose could significantly increase the chance of confusion and even delirium.

People sometimes report strong mental effects even in the common dose range. There will be differences between individuals and even between experiences.
When confusion is present, it can present with thought loops and an inability to complete basic tasks.

Because there are reports of both strong mental activity and clear-headedness at common doses, it?s difficult to determine what the ?average? 25I-NBOMe experience is like.

At strong+ doses, confusion is a much more frequent issue. You should avoid higher doses even just for that reason.

Delirium can develop when enough is used. Delirious states can be dangerous for users and those nearby. Sometimes those states are accompanied by aggression and agitation.

People have put themselves in harm?s way and even engaged in self-harm while frightened and confused because of the drug. You can reduce the chance of those negatives by using a common amount.

Occasionally people like the stronger mental activity that?s offered with high doses. It can facilitate personal insight and ego loss, for example. But if you want to explore more intense mental states, it?s best to do so with psychedelics that are physically safer.
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Erowid has a couple "Train Wrecks & Trip Disasters" that describe the trip in more detail:
Multiple Perspective NBOMe Freakout / 25I-NBOMe (Sold as LSD)
https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=98945

Hope this gives you a bit more insight!
 
Experiences like you state are rather common on Nbomes, there's many trip reports out there to corroborate that statement. LSD is much much less likely to cause this.

Candyflippung is very common and pretty damn safe so long as you take the proper precautions. Making sure you have actual mdma and lsd being step one...

NBomes are very hard to predict. There is a "narrow therapeutic dosage range" so to speak. 500ug might be a good trip whereas a 1mg will have you too far gone. The dosage varies wildly from person to person, and even in the same person experience to experience. In my opinion they are not safe, hence why I have thousands of hits that I'll likely throw away one day cuz I don't feel others should use it.

Combining MDMA and an Nbome dose thinking it's LSD is a recipe for disaster and likely the culprit here. Vasoconstriction is extreme with these compounds, mix in some MDMA and other stims and your in for a shitty time.

As for real candyflipping.. It's pure magic, and not harsh on the body at all. Can't say for everyone else but I've been using the combo for a decade now a few times a year and it's been exceedingly beneficial for me.

Of course if you take too much of anything though it's going to be problematic but my guess here is on shitty "acid."

To answer on how common it is, around me.. Very.. I hang in a rather niche subculture however, but I've never seen a person take it too far. Even after watching people take upwards of 20-30hits when I can barely take 2... (Mind you the events I go to it's almost all real LSD.) Ketamine accounts for almost all the bad incidents I see but that's for another thread i suppose..

-GC
 
qualify: i've taken a couple ambulance rides on acid

acid isn't really "tainted" but could be something other than lsd (DOx or an NBOMe). aside from that, circumstances and mindset alone can turn a chill tripper's trip into a manic episode wherein LE/medical personnel get involved.

"candyflipping" proper is LSD+MDMA and is pretty much a guaranteed-nonagressive situation.
 
^^

as xelence said. Ambulance rides from LSD alone are more common than you'd think.

All it takes is an overstimulating environment without anywhere to relax for someone to be thrown into a sort of manic episode, with the added difficulty communicating and interfacing with the world that LSD normally brings about. Not everyone is skilled at dealing with a person in such a state or at calming them down, so it's no wonder some will jump straight to calling the paramedics, which, in an ideal world where training in such matters is more commonplace (especially in settings were many people are likely to be tripping to begin with!), should be completely avoidable.

Bringing in cops would only serve to exacerbate the state of agitation. Someone who's tripping very hard can most likely still recognize an imposing figure/threat, especially if they're being restrained. When words fail, all that's left is the urge to fight back like a trapped animal... (Is my theory anyway!)

A candyflip is IME unlikely to cause this, but who knows.
 
I had one nightmare trip than ended at the hospital in a restraint bed and it was from about 2-3 strong hits of LSD, a couple of doses of MDMA and some speed on top of that. A traditional candyflip is LSD+MDMA, but sometimes people add what they have on hands.
 
trogere said:
It can be truly awesome as it can turn into a disaster too. When it goes right, you feel great, you have energy to dance and you have nice insights.
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I’m sure it’s quite nice when going your way, but doesn’t MDMA give enough energy without the speed?
 
I don't get much energy from pure MDMA, never have, my friends agree. It doesn't reduce my energy but it doesn't make me feel like moving in particular. I mean maybe to music, but it's not particularly speedy.
 
I agree Xorkoth. Most of my experiences were spent lounging on couches; giggling and talking to people. I haven't tried "ecstasy" but unless MDA or whatever they cut the MDMA with is speedy, I can't imagine prolonged dancing personally.
 
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