Hi there! A little help?

[Melhell]

First, I'm going to answer your questions and then I have some new information that I'd like some advice on if anybody has any.
1. Before my detox - I was on oxymorphone (supposed to be 60 mg, went up to as much as 120 and got oxycodone to last till my next Rx), trams - 50-150 mg per day as needed, tizanadine -- 2mg 3x a day. About nine months ago, my dr switched me from oxycodone to oxymorphone. Other than that, these meds had been on for 2 yrs. Abot two months ago, (new dr.) gabapentin - 300 mgs at bedtime got added. The xanax was not Rx (used to have an Rx for xanax years ago) - just have some available.
Now, since my detox - ~4mg of suboxone per day with this being my first day of taper down 25%, up until today I had been taking everything else as well. Something is making me feel like shit, though. I took only 1/3 of my trams pill (had lowered to 1 already when I started subs) and that's it. Except for Xanax because part of the shitty feeling is jitteriness that I can't shake with exercise or gabs. Hoping I'm not developing a xanax habit - taking 1mg or less a day though, so...
2. I have taken the xanax for the anxiety this situation has created, mostly. Also, to get through the 24 hr. Period of starting subs. Now, I'm taking it to help with the jittery, anxious feeling I'm getting everyday w/suboxone.
3. Yes, and I might do that if I find that its needed. I will probably try just a plain ole counselor, first though, as my profession would require me to self report if I "get treatment" for drug or alcohol problem.
4. My plan is to get off Suboxone as quickly as possible without having a lot of discompfort. I am starting PT to help with the pain (botched foot surgery that a corrective surgery made worse) and have relatively high hopes for that.
5. If things don't go as planned, I will definitely consider but please see 3. I'd rather have to self report myself than just go down in a ball of flames because I won't ask for help.

Is this sort of anxiety/agitation common with Suboxone? I'm trying to figure out if it is coming from the subs or if it a feeling I haven't ever really experienced before - unfulfillable craving. If it's the former, I need to decrease my sub intake as quickly as I planned and not worry too much about it. If it's the latter, I'm in trouble. My plan might not work. I go back and forth on whether or not I should switch back to the slow taper that I was failing miserably at - but have someone to administer to pills to me now so I can't take more than I should/am rx'd - which is now down to 30 mgs a day as of my next appointment, tomorrow. I have a friend who will go with me to that appointment - to help me be strong. I could definitely say I changed my mind and don't want to taper, because of the return of the pain, and probably be right back to where I was - pain free physically (mostly) but miserable spiritually. I'm not doing that, period. I just want to stop feeling this way as quickly as possible. I hate it and I can't work. I have ADD and an aderall rx I haven't been taken very often since I started taking opioids. For whatever reason, the opioids seemed to help with it for quite some time. It was after I switched to oxymorphone and got addicted to it that the ADD symptoms have returned. But being on Suboxone makes the ADD 10 fold worse and I'm in real danger of driving my career off track if I don't figure out how to get the fuck out of this spiral of opioid/opiod withdrawal/opiod withdrawal maintenance hell. Any advice here would be really appreciated, toothpastedog. Also and finally, I'm finding that mid point through the day 2mgs of subs wears off and I feel like I need more. If I try to take an entire 4mgs in the morning and be done with it, I'm crazy irritable all day and end up feeling like I need another .5 at night. If I wasn't having this anxiety and agitation, I'd be feeling a lot better about where I am. On an uptick - I haven't had an oxymorphone in about 2 weeks and no OxyContin in 5 and 1/2 days...yay - sort of.

 

[Melhell]

I tried to edit the last post - sorry about the double post. But, here's another thing I don't understand: Why am I having such a long withdrawal period? I thought withdrawals usually lasted about 3 days. I would have thought that I could've used the oxycontin to get through the oxymorphone withdrawal but when I tried to stop taking the OxyContin without starting the Bupe - this is obvious if you've read my earlier posts in this thread - I went into extreme w/d even after I'd been switched for over a week. Now, I've been on Bupe for 4 days and I'm still feeling pretty strong w/d waking me up every morning. WTF? I guess just switching the opioids keeps the receptors activated or whatever and the w/d is coming no matter what? Unless I taper? So, is it just that it's "easier" to taper off subs? I'm really frustrated and sick of feeling sick. When does this stop? Anybody?

 

[Beenbetter]

Give it a bit buddy. I know it sux. Read the thread I started and you will see how hard my transition was and still is. I saying a prayer for you.
You can win this fight. We both can.

 

[simco]

I agree--give it a bit more time. Typically, acute WD symptoms peak at about three days. But then it takes a while for them to taper off. You're likely to notice a gradual decline in your symptoms...some with go away relatively fast, while others (sleep is a common one) may take longer to normalize.

Hang in there, though...you're handling it great.

 

[G.R.S.H.]

Starting my own battle to get off oxym, headed to the doctor in a couple minutes. Oxym feels like hell, and going to try to cold turkey off of my pain meds for the weekend... I've never felt hooked before and I don't like it.

I hope you're doing well and will keep checking in!

 

[simco]

Starting my own battle to get off oxym, headed to the doctor in a couple minutes. Oxym feels like hell, and going to try to cold turkey off of my pain meds for the weekend... I've never felt hooked before and I don't like it.

I hope you're doing well and will keep checking in!

What do you mean when you say it feels like hell? Just curious what you're up against.

 

[Jabberwocky]

First, I'm going to answer your questions and then I have some new information that I'd like some advice on if anybody has any.
1. Before my detox - I was on oxymorphone (supposed to be 60 mg, went up to as much as 120 and got oxycodone to last till my next Rx), trams - 50-150 mg per day as needed, tizanadine -- 2mg 3x a day. About nine months ago, my dr switched me from oxycodone to oxymorphone. Other than that, these meds had been on for 2 yrs. Abot two months ago, (new dr.) gabapentin - 300 mgs at bedtime got added. The xanax was not Rx (used to have an Rx for xanax years ago) - just have some available.
Now, since my detox - ~4mg of suboxone per day with this being my first day of taper down 25%, up until today I had been taking everything else as well. Something is making me feel like shit, though. I took only 1/3 of my trams pill (had lowered to 1 already when I started subs) and that's it. Except for Xanax because part of the shitty feeling is jitteriness that I can't shake with exercise or gabs. Hoping I'm not developing a xanax habit - taking 1mg or less a day though, so...
2. I have taken the xanax for the anxiety this situation has created, mostly. Also, to get through the 24 hr. Period of starting subs. Now, I'm taking it to help with the jittery, anxious feeling I'm getting everyday w/suboxone.
3. Yes, and I might do that if I find that its needed. I will probably try just a plain ole counselor, first though, as my profession would require me to self report if I "get treatment" for drug or alcohol problem.
4. My plan is to get off Suboxone as quickly as possible without having a lot of discompfort. I am starting PT to help with the pain (botched foot surgery that a corrective surgery made worse) and have relatively high hopes for that.
5. If things don't go as planned, I will definitely consider but please see 3. I'd rather have to self report myself than just go down in a ball of flames because I won't ask for help.

Is this sort of anxiety/agitation common with Suboxone? I'm trying to figure out if it is coming from the subs or if it a feeling I haven't ever really experienced before - unfulfillable craving. If it's the former, I need to decrease my sub intake as quickly as I planned and not worry too much about it. If it's the latter, I'm in trouble. My plan might not work. I go back and forth on whether or not I should switch back to the slow taper that I was failing miserably at - but have someone to administer to pills to me now so I can't take more than I should/am rx'd - which is now down to 30 mgs a day as of my next appointment, tomorrow. I have a friend who will go with me to that appointment - to help me be strong. I could definitely say I changed my mind and don't want to taper, because of the return of the pain, and probably be right back to where I was - pain free physically (mostly) but miserable spiritually. I'm not doing that, period. I just want to stop feeling this way as quickly as possible. I hate it and I can't work. I have ADD and an aderall rx I haven't been taken very often since I started taking opioids. For whatever reason, the opioids seemed to help with it for quite some time. It was after I switched to oxymorphone and got addicted to it that the ADD symptoms have returned. But being on Suboxone makes the ADD 10 fold worse and I'm in real danger of driving my career off track if I don't figure out how to get the fuck out of this spiral of opioid/opiod withdrawal/opiod withdrawal maintenance hell. Any advice here would be really appreciated, toothpastedog. Also and finally, I'm finding that mid point through the day 2mgs of subs wears off and I feel like I need more. If I try to take an entire 4mgs in the morning and be done with it, I'm crazy irritable all day and end up feeling like I need another .5 at night. If I wasn't having this anxiety and agitation, I'd be feeling a lot better about where I am. On an uptick - I haven't had an oxymorphone in about 2 weeks and no OxyContin in 5 and 1/2 days...yay - sort of.

I'd keep taking tramadol as normal until you stabilize on buprenorphine. Also take your Xanax and gabapentin, although I'd suggest increasing your dose of GBP if you have enough.

I also strongly suggest you wait to taper off buprenorphine until you've first stabilized on it. That can take one to two weeks. It will be far more manageable if you don't try tapering off it until you have first stabilized off the other opioids (I'd suggest continuing to take tramadol normally until either you've stabilized on buprenorphine or have gotten off it).

Two weeks isn't long enough to become dependent on buprenorphine. I strongly suggest you take your time using that medication. Rushing things doesn't work well for getting off opioids, despite the desire to just get healthy ASAP getting healthy at all requires you do things as methodically as possible. Taking your time with the buprenorphine will help your body recover faster once you get off it as well actually.

How else can we give you support here? Do you have any other questions?

Frankly you'd be a much better candidate for using methadone to detox/stabilize than buprenorphine, given your issues with pain. Can you perhaps get on methadone as pain management? It would help a lot with cravings for other drugs and is quite a useful pain management med. You can also supplement methadone with a short acting med for breakthrough pain if necessary.

Restlessness and agitation isn't uncommon when getting on buprenorphine. I found the naloxone in buprenorphine to actually make this a little worse sometimes, and experienced less restlessness and agitation by using Subutex (which is only buprenorphine).

Keep in mind it's taken you years to develop the habit you are now trying to address. It is not reasonable to think it won't take a long time (probably about the same amount of time if not more) to stabilize after a long period of substance misuse/dependency. The more time you give yourself the better, as it will allow opportunity to learn more healthy coping skills which will be necessary to keep you going without the kind of drug use you're trying to get away from. The more time you have to learn and integrate healthy habits the easier and more sustainable your recovery will be.

Keep your head up and try to be gentle and kind with yourself, and please try and take as much time as you can with the buprenorphine/recovery meds. Recovery doesn't happen over night. It is a slow, gradual developmental process. Take it one day at a time, plan for the worst and hope for the best, and try not to worry about the past or the future. Just as long as you keep trying and put your efforts, energy and resources into healthier habits, you'll get where you want sooner than later.

The more you invest in your recovery, health and wellbeing (emotionally, psychologically and physiologically) the more successful you'll be - and the more likely you'll to get to a place that is even more fulfilling than your wildest dreams. Think of taking care of yourself, working to improve your health and getting as much professional support as possible as an investment in yourself. It takes a lot to change, a lot of personal willingness, courage and all around effort as well as a lot of help from other people, but literally anything is possible.

Sky's the limit. All it takes is a little effort, resiliency and imagination. You're more capable than you could imagine in this. It just takes time. Please try not to rush things along. Things in recovery tend to happen exactly as they're meant to. Problems will become challenges sooner or later, and those challenges will themselves eventually transform into opportunities, and the opportunities into successes, just as long as you keep trying to become a healthier, more loving, mature and responsible individual.

As long as you focus on improving your quality of life and your health and wellbeing, your recovery will do you more than you'll do it. It's pretty amazing actually. And like I said, chances are you have no idea the amazing things you are capable of. All it takes is the willingness to try, try and try again. As long as you keep trying different things you'll eventually find exactly what you need to achieve your goals (and more).

 

[G.R.S.H.]

What do you mean when you say it feels like hell? Just curious what you're up against.

I woke yesterday morning in hard withdrawal, having fallen asleep before taking my last round for the day. I broke my back (T5) many years ago and have been taking pain medication for a while now. But oxymorphone made me feel like crap this last go round. I've never hit withdrawal like that before, and it scared me! My stress level went through the roof (I think I have to much recovery in my head to feel like that and be OK), and my pain level has been mostly unbearable the last month. So now I'm cleaning out my system over the weekend. My doctor put me on bupirone and upper my GABA, so hopefully it won't be too bad. My brain is freaking out, my pain level is through the roof...
Faith: grsh

 

[simco]

I woke yesterday morning in hard withdrawal, having fallen asleep before taking my last round for the day. I broke my back (T5) many years ago and have been taking pain medication for a while now. But oxymorphone made me feel like crap this last go round. I've never hit withdrawal like that before, and it scared me! My stress level went through the roof (I think I have to much recovery in my head to feel like that and be OK), and my pain level has been mostly unbearable the last month. So now I'm cleaning out my system over the weekend. My doctor put me on bupirone and upper my GABA, so hopefully it won't be too bad. My brain is freaking out, my pain level is through the roof...
Faith: grsh

Ah, I see now. Man, that sounds awful. I'm sorry to hear you're contending with all that.

 

[G.R.S.H.]

Thanks sim, not very articulate right now so my apologies if I don't make sense.

 

[Melhell]

Starting my own battle to get off oxym, headed to the doctor in a couple minutes. Oxym feels like hell, and going to try to cold turkey off of my pain meds for the weekend... I've never felt hooked before and I don't like it.

I hope you're doing well and will keep checking in!

Wow, you're the first person who's been taking oxym that I've encountered. I had started to wonder if it was more addictive or something and not rx'd as much. This thread stopped showing up on my profile so I thought no one had responded to it! I'm glad to have somebody to talk to. I've replied, etc. on several other posts but the closest I came to actually having someone to talk to - the person relapsed 2-3 days in. I'm on day 6 now (3rd time is a charm!). I have cut myself off from my Dr (only oxym- not treatment) and the only other source I had, though. I had to do that to make it out of this shit. I still have some wd here and there but Kratom has been helping tremendously!!! How is your battle going? Did you make it tdfdfdfhrough the weekend? Still going? I really hope you see this and respond - either way. You can be really encoraging to me or vice versa.

I found that Bupe wasn't for me and have been really grateful for Kratom. Have you/did you find anything that helped?

 

[Melhell]

G.R.S.H. - I wrote a long reply to you that apparently didn't post. That sucks. I am on day 6. Longest I've gone and I'm truly done. I had to cut myself off from my Dr. (pm only - not treatment) and the one other source I had but I can finally see light at the end of the tunnel. I'm taking Kratom so I'm not completely out of the woods, I still have to taper from it. But it's a damn sight better than what I was up against. 3rd time is a charm for me. I also finally told my husband what was going on and while he wasnt' super excited to hear it, he's been supportive and that has made a difference, too. I think "coming clean" has really helped my mindset about "getting clean" from this insidious drug.

So, did you make it through the weekend? I'd reallly like to hear how your doing. I'm sorry it took so long for me to respond. This thread stopped showing up in my profile so I thought it had died on the vine.

I had never been hooked on anything before this, either. Not a feeling I ever want to have again. What is/was your dosage? Have you fond anything that helps? Thought about subs? - I tried bupe but it turned out to not really work very well for me. It made me feel terrible and anxious. That you can't take benzo's on it made that combo a little much. I hope your still on here and look forward to hearing from you!

 

[Melhell]

TPD - Thanks so much. That was awesome to read.

 

[Melhell]

Soooo. Day 7 and I'm feeling better. Today is the day I take the Kratom down to 30mgs. 10mg -3x per day. I'm not going to get too upset if I need 10mgs or less extra for the next few days still, though. Still feel shivers a lot and can't get warm - except in the shower/bath and while I'm exercising. Feel a little lonely this morning.

I'm looking at my 9 yr old's project from school. It says "I love my mom because she always takes care of me - even when she's sick." Ripped my heart out. I'm young and healthy. This medicine/drug I started taking because of a botched corrective foot surgery 2 1/2 years ago made me some one who my kid feels sorry for. Motivation, mf'rs.

Happy New Year, everyone! Thanks so much to Bluelight for providing a forum for this. I don't know if I could have gotten this far without it.

 

[T. Calderone]

Glad you're doing better Melhell. My son saw me when I was at my worst and the guilt still haunts me. Kids have a way of keeping us in check. Getting addicted to opiates left me a shell of the person I once was but I'm in recovery now. Happy New year to you!

 

[Alldonewithit]

I think 2 weeks is pushing it, anywhere from 4-10 days should be safe. When taking them for 2 weeks, considering the stacking effect and long half life, the sub will then be in your system for 3+weeks total, and then you're teetering on sub wds too. The acute stage of opiate wd lasts 4-7 days, so take the sub just for that, then use your comfort meds too get through the next 7-10 days. You'll be fine.

 

[Alldonewithit]

I wanted my kids to see me. I'm straight up with them, i will not lie to them. I told them what it feels like to be on opiates, and other drugs, and what it feels like to withdrawal from them. I don't want them questioning what a drug will feel like In the short and long term, i want them to know b4 hand. I'm 90% certain they won't ever get into it.

 

[ElleAZ]

I wanted my kids to see me. I'm straight up with them, i will not lie to them. I told them what it feels like to be on opiates, and other drugs, and what it feels like to withdrawal from them. I don't want them questioning what a drug will feel like In the short and long term, i want them to know b4 hand. I'm 90% certain they won't ever get into it.

Yes. My kids are watching me go through this pain and I make sure they don't miss a symptom. My family was almost entirely addicts and we moved 2300 miles away so our kids wouldn't think it was normal. This is what invested parents do. They use their lives as examples.

 

[Melhell]

E - while I disagree with your statement that that's what invested parents do-I think you can be invested and not do that for one reason or another, I get where your coming from.

I struggled a little with this when I realized what was going to have to happen for me to get off this medication/drug - and during their xmas break no less (no opiates since dec 25th!). I read several studies and they seem to be pretty split on what the best approach is. I think it depends on a lot of different factors. For example, 2 of my 4 children are my step children. Although their mom only has them 2-3 weekends a month now (she had full custody for several years but has mental health issues...), she is still pretty good at convincing them what a bad person I am. Trying to talk to them about my or my husbands past alcohol/drug use would end up getting spun into really bad stuff - she has convinced one of them that he is dyslexic because my husband (his dad) is. He is not. He showed ONE marker on the test. I could go on and on about this situation, it has brought much heartache to my life.

Anyway, I think that parents can address drug use with their children without telling them all about what they have done. I'm always most afraid that my kids would get a "mom/dad did it and she/he turned out really good" attitude. THat fear stems from the fact that my husband and I are both professionals who provide a very comfortable life for our children. It would not be a " look what drugs can do to your life"story, it would be more like (present circumstances excluded), "look what you can do in your youth and still be successful as an adult". My husband and I were both pretty lucky in life - if you consider being able to come the most fucked up child hood imaginable and still figure out how to become successful lucky. I do.

Anywho, back to my current situation (which my children think is the flu). I have had no opiates in my system in over 7 days. I am on day 8 and not looking back. Either Kratom is an excellent pain reliever or I was correct that I was in a pretty constant state of withdrawal that was actually exacerbating my pain. How interesting is this that I am actually in less pain now than I have been for some time. I guess as the days tick on, the reality will surface. No problems yesterday with Kratom taper. REally, for me, that stuff is so hard to eat and the "high" is not super enjoyable - I don't foresee a problem tapering over the next 2 weeks. I'll keep posting, though!

 

[Melhell]

HI there TPD, I was just reading through these old posts to kind of, see how far I've come and I re-read your post with the Questions. What is MBSR? I think I'm going to get some counseling and I'm just exploring all my options. I don't know if there is any self medicating happening with me but I want to make sure this sticks so I'm going to cover all my bases. I think that as many people as I can make myself accountable to is good and I want to talk out how I got to here - really openly and honestly with someone. I didn''t just become dependent on the meds my dr rx'd. I began abusing them and then buying more to make up the difference. Maybe that was just because of the physical pain, but I'd like to talk to somebody all the same. Any other suggestions on the stuff that comes after the physical part is gone?