• HEALTH & RECOVERY
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules Thread Directory 1 Thread Directory 2
    Mindfulness Links Addiction & Mind
    Sober Living Partner Program (SLiPP)
  • H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist | cdin | Lil'LinaptkSix

Hi there! A little help?

M

Melhell

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
98
I have been lurking for a few days and finally signed up on here. I can't seem to find what I'm looking for, though. Every search I put in tells me I have no matches. I'm taking my last dose of oxy (140 ish mg/day) tomorrow morning and have 29 2mg/.5 Suboxone to start Saturday morning. I tried the Subs once before and ended up in PW. I am definitely waiting the full 24 hrs this time! What I'm trying to find is the answer to this question: I have gabepentin (plenty), Xanax (12 .5 pills but a fairly low tolerance - only have taken 1.5 pills at most before, but with oxy) and tixanidine (plenty) and tramadol (plenty). I have a pretty reasonable tolerance to all but xanax and am pretty new to gabs. What should/can I safely take tomorrow to make this as comfortable as possible without ending up in the ER or worse. I really like my life and want it back. I'm gonna have to learn how to deal with the pain, but that is for later...
Any help would be really appreciated!!!!!!!!!
 
Hi there Melhell and welcome to Bluelight :)

Sorry the search didn't show up any useful answers. I'm going to move your thread to Sober Living to see if any of the brains down there can help you figure out how to do this right without suffering too much.

Fingers crossed everything goes well!!!
CFC
 
The gabapentin, subs and xanax will take you a long way. I'm not very familiar with tixanadine. And given the other meds you have, I would personally stay away from the trams (others may feel differently about it).

In terms of dosage, something on the order of 1500mg/day of gabapentin is a common starting place. But the way gabapentin gets metabolized, people's necessary dose differs quite a bit--you may need more, you may need less. And my advice is to use the gabapentin (definitely) during your acute WDs, but to try to limit how long you're taking it.

With the xanax, again, use what you need during acute WDs. In my own experience, during the gnarliest parts of WD, I've usually done about 1 or 2 mg 2xdaily. Can you possibly get a longer-acting benzo such as clonazepam or diazepam? Xanax is OK, other benzos are better at managing anxiety for longer periods of time.

Do you have a plan in terms of using the subs?
 
So with the trams, I've been taking them daily for a few years so ill probably take my reg dose or a little less just to avoid any issues - unless someone tells me its dangerous... My plan on using the subs is to take 1mg per hour starting as long after 24 hours as I can stand until I feel "held" take that dose or 4mgs the 2nd day, 2-3mgs the 3rd day. 4th day, repeat or reduce by 25% if I can. Then reduce by 25% every day until I'm at .5 then skip a day, then skip 2, then skip 3. Hopefully, that will be the end of it. If not, skip 4, ect. I'm really more concerned about getting through the 24hrs. I don't want to go into pw but, apparently, I'm a real weenie when it comes to w/d. I've got until Sunday night night when my family will be home, and I need to be okay. And not dead from taking too much stuff waiting for Bupe. These are all meds I already take. I have an exam for everything except the xanax which I got for this very purpose - I have taken them, though, as I said in my post, just not with large amounts of Gab. Really, I'll be adding a large Gab dose and subtracting an opiate dose... I'd just like to know what I can safely take of what I've got to make this successful.
I really appreciate the advise. Why do you think I should avoid the Trams? Tizanadine is a muscle relaxer that I take every day, now. But low dose: 1mg 3x per day.
 
I hadn't noticed/realized that you are already taking the trams...in that case, yes, just keep those as-is. I only suggested not taking them because, personally, I feel like their value in managing WD is not a high as some of your other meds, and they can become problematic in their own right. But again, if they're already in the mix and you're not trying to quit them, yes, just keep going.

1500mg/day really isn't that much gabapentin (for most people...I feel compelled to announce the obvious: I'm not a doctor...it's always wise to speak with your physician about these matters). I really don't anticipate that you'll have any adverse response to a responsible dose of gab+benzo.

Hey, I totally understand about being freaked out about pWD. That shit is no joke. Best advice is to make sure you're good and truly feeling WD symptoms before you initiate the buprenorphine.
 
I can't even express in words how grateful I am to have someone to talk to and ask questions about this. Thank you.

I will probably take 1/2 dose of my trams this evening just to be sure they don't cause a problem either way. That will be 25mg. Also, I have a friend who is coming over to help me. I feel unbelievably lucky and grateful for her; She has zero experience in this area though, so really, sh's just going to be here to make sure I'm "okay." Until a few hours after my subs have kicked in - at which point, if every goes well, I will take her for an awesome meal (or something really nice).

I understand that the gabs are going to be my best bet as far as making myself comfy. How and when should I start them? Wait until W/D kicks in a little or start before - i know about how much time I've got, 12 hrs from 8:30 this morning before I start to get uncomfortable and icy hot. I usually take 300mg at bedtime and have tken 100mg during the day and have never really felt anything. I was surprised to learn that they will be this much help...
I'm reallly glad to hear the gabs are safe to take with the xanax in the doses we're talking about. If i take 1600mg-2400 gab and 2-4 or so mg xanax? If that doesn't work what increments should I use for both?
I forgot to say earlier that I have no access to anything but what I've listed and trazadone. Except limitless supply of opiates - and I never want to see another one those again. I can't wait to be done.
 
Sounds like a great plan. I'm really glad to hear you've got a friend on your side during this...I think that will be huge. WD can be so lonely without some support.

I'm a little uncomfortable about discussing the safety of drug mixtures at different doses, just because I don't want to give you bad information. With that said, I *think* that what you're proposing would be safe. But seriously, I'm not an expert...maybe someone else will feel more confident in this arena. I can say that at one point I was on gabapentin and benzos (clonazepam) for psych issues. I was Rx'd ~2000mg/day of gab and 3 mg/day of the clonnies...so obviously my doctor thought that was safe for me.

Personally, I'd wait to start taking the gabs until you take your first sub. You want to maintain a clear picture of how well/sick you are so you know when to initiate the buprenorphine.
 
Thanks for all the great advice. I understand your concern, we're all different. I appreciate knowing your experience, though. Even though mine will. Be different,,, it's nice to know you're not doing something that is really stupid, dangerous, etc. Also, I waited 12 hrs when I ended up in PW so this time, I'm plannnig on waiting the full 24, almost no matter how I feel. Longer if I can. KNowing that the worse I feel the better the relief will feel and the more likely I will not go into PW makes that option seem better. Because of that, I want to take the gab and xan in order to help me get there. Worst case, the gab works so well, I can wait longer than the 24 hrs and that's even better, right?
 
Yes, that could happen.

One question: I see that you've doing doing ~140mg/day of oxy. That's helpful to know. Could you tell us approximately how long you've had this habit? Though every kick is unique, the duration of the habit you're kicking typically influences the severity and duration of acute WD.

Good luck. You got this! <3

PS I once gave myself precipitated WDs too. That's fucking horrible! So long as you wait till you're feeling pretty ragged to start the subs, you shouldn't have to deal with that this time around.
 
So, I actually had an oxymorphone habit that stemmed from Rx for legitimate pain. However, I started needing more and the dr wouldn't go up from 60 mg per day so started running out. Long story short, The last week has been only oxycontin -20 mg x up to as many as 10 per day but usually around 7 to keep the wd from the morph one away. This is how it's been for a while every month and I'm just tired of it. I'd rather spend my money on something nice! I had a close call of running out of the Oxyc and I have too much to lose to let this get me. I'm sick of the anxiety behind a little running my life. I want out. Does that help? Any more detailed advice on the amount of time I need to wait and the level of acute w/d I can expect? I'm actually pretty surprised to not be feeling worse.

Also, 2 yrs total but switched from Oxyc to oxym about 8 or 9 months ago. That shit is the devil. I'm hoping the w/d this time won't be so bad since it not actually from that...
 
I did it! I made it all night and now Ive cut my sub into 4 pieces and have taken 2 over the last hour. I dont think I'm having pw but I certainly don't feel great yet. I let you know how the next few hours go! Any advice on the sub?
 
.I'm literally crying right now. Unbelievably happy tears. I feel almost normal. Still a little icy hot feeling - hoping that goes away. I can't believe how well this works if you just wait long enough to take it the at the correct time. I was a little afraid to take it at 9:30am but that had been 25 hours since my last dose and I was starting to feel pretty awful. I needed to either redose with Gabs and Xan and sleep some more (I slept most of the night with that combo - I added 2mg tizanidine 2 times, twice around 11pm and again at probably 5 am) These were the only two times I woke up.

I have a new problem. I am developing a pretty yucky headache. I've read that if I. Spit after the strip has desolved, this will stop happening. I am pretty afraid to do that. I have a limited supply to work with here and I cant afford to spit out medicine. Any advice? Still feeling pretty sweaty. Shaky and a little icky in general. Ive taken 2mg plus a small strip of the next strip (2m strip ct into 4 pieces). Should I take more? Should I spit after it's dissolved? This wont waste any of the bupe, will it?
 
Congrats, man! You're doing awesome.

You might need a little extra sub in the first day or so to manage your symptoms. I wouldn't go overboard on that, but if you need to, it shouldn't present any problems.

In terms of using the subs, you said they're strips, right? i.e. not tablets? If that's the case, yes, you'll probably want to avoid swallowing while you let the film dissolve under your tongue. After ~10 mins, the strip should be dissolved and you'll have a big ol gob of nasty spit in your mouth...just spit that right out. Personally, I never minded swallowing it...but some people get headaches or gnarly stomach pain if they swallow it.

Keep us posted on how you're doing. I'm so glad to hear it's going well. And just remember, *if* things do take a turn for the worse (emotionally or physically), you'll swing back around...those feelings will be temporary. All part of the process.

<3
 
Use Listerine or some other ethanol based mouthwash for a minute or two before using the strip. It will make it dissolve much faster and there will be a lot less residue left in your mouth. Plus it helps with the odd flavor.
 
Toothpastedog and simco, thanks for those tips - exactly what I needed. That Costco sized listerine under my cabinet is finally to get some use! I hope I can manage to not swallow for 15 mins. I bet I can - I def have the headache side-effect (I've heard its from the naloxone that's in there doing nothing but giving ppl headaches, stomachs aches and makin somebody - ahem - big pharma - ahem MAJOR MOOLA. Kinda makes the headache piss me off even more.


Also, I took notes as I went through this - 90% accurate (I was in W/D, after all) I've decided to make a little chart for anybody who wants it. Would have loved on - just for some basic guidelines- assuming you have access to what I did or something similar.:


8:30 AM Friday morning: Last dose (140 mg oxy ER - chewed up 3 - makes them IR)

All day: went around and got things done so that anxiety about other stuff could be as low as possible.

4pm: 300 mg GABA and .5 Xan (I was still feeling fine this was really just to calm my nerves - it worked! I eased into the W/D portion of this little adventure much more smoothly than I would have otherwise, I think)

6:30 : 600 mg GABA and .5 Xan

7pm: 5 ibuprofen - the pain that got me in this mess started REALLY flaring up - this did a decent job of helping with that

8:30 600 mg GABA and .5 Xan

10pm 300 mg GABA and .5 Xan and 2mg Tizanidine (pretty weak muscle relaxer - I was starting to get those RLS and RBS (restless body syndrome) all of this combined made me really sleepy....:\

Sometime in the middle of the night: ( I woke p at probably around 2-4 am, took 100mg GABA and .5 Xan and then again what seemed like not too much later and just took a whole 1mg of Xan)

9:30 am - woke up. Laid round for a while feeling okay but with major yucky spells in waves. Took and 1mg Xan and didn't really notice any difference. One of these spells lasted long enough that I decided since it had been 25+ hrs, I was going to go for it. I got out my 2mg strip and cut into 4 pieces.

On the 4th peice, I finally got a little relief. I cut up the next 2mg strip and cut into 5 pieces. It's now 2pm and Ive taken 1 of them. I couldn't run a marathon or anything but, I'm not on opiates (exactly) and I'm done with the hard part - as long as I don't f'up and get hooked on the bup. Thankfully, I don't think I have enough to do that. On that note, I think I've already laid out my plan on the subs and I'm sticking to that as well.

I hope this helps somebody out there who is scared to start the subs because of the initial hell you have to go through to get started - which is bullshit, by thy way. Since I've started researching this because of my experience I have found NUMEROUS (at least TWO that I cold find again with google search or 2) drugs that you can use to get off opiates COMPLETELY PAINLESSLY. They are all illegal in the states (except the one you smoke who's name I cant think of right now but on a scale of 1- 10, its a 3 where as these other drugs are 10"'s!!!!! - and no anxiety over pw, or any of the other bullshit that comes with our legal options once we find ourselves addicted/dependent on meds OUR DR GAVE US!!)

I am so grateful to bluelight that this community was here. It really helped me - I'll keep posting on my bupe taper....
Sorry for the Novel!
 
Great post, Melhell! It's likely to be helpful for others down the road. Thanks for writing it.
 
So, It's the end of day 1. I ended up taking 4mgs by around 4 pm. It's 11pm and I'm considering taking another .5. I felt fine toda and went out did stuff. I'm starting to feel a little of that icy hot feeling but nothing too bad. I just don't want to wake up in full blown wd. Anybody with any experience on this? I'm pretty sure I know the answer and am going to go ahead and take it. Really today (and maybe tomorrow) I had decided whatever dose I needed (within reason) to get through them.
 
How long are you planning to take the Suboxone for? I admit I skimmed some of the posts but didnt see it. I have had one terrible experience with Suboxone coming off an oxy habit and one successful (well relatively, I consider it a success) coming off heroin. If you extend it too long, its not going to be fun.
 
My plan on using the subs is to take 1mg per hour starting as long after 24 hours as I can stand until I feel "held" take that dose or 4mgs the 2nd day, 2-3mgs the 3rd day. 4th day, repeat or reduce by 25% if I can. Then reduce by 25% every day until I'm at .5 then skip a day, then skip 2, then skip 3. Hopefully, that will be the end of it. If not, skip 4, ect.



THis is my. Plan but I was planning on being pretty forgiving with myself these first three days. I also have to work M-F and it's pretty concentration based work - a lot of the reason being on the meds wasn't working out for me, among obvious other reasons. Do you think I'll experience WD with this plan? Can you tell me more about your experience? How long did you stay on the subs? Was that the difference in the two experiences or did you have PW with one?

I guess I should have updated that. So, I took 4.5 the first day. This is day 2 and I've taken .1.5. I'm a little worried that I'll need more than 4mgs today. I'm not sure how big of a problem it will be to just take what I need these first 3 days. Obviously, if 4.5 worke yesterday, it should work today? I've only got 26 (started with 29) 2mg to make this work anyway.

Also, I found myself in some mild discomfort before bed last night. THat's how I ended up at 4.5 mgs yesterday instead of 4.I had read that most people only take their dose in the morning. What gives? Does it have to build up first? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If you are only taking low doses of buprenorphine like that for one to two weeks you won't have any withdrawal from it when you stop, especially if you more or less follow your plans for taper.

You may feel some minor symptoms after you stop the buprenorphine, but these will just be the tail end of acute opioid withdrawal and nothing related to bupynorphine dependency per se. And the symptoms will be minor, like a tad of RLS, trouble sleeping normally, feeling a little down during the day, lack of motivation/energy/etc.

But you'd have those symptoms to one degree or another regardless of how you detoxed yourself - with current medical treatments it's pretty par for the course. What you have/will experience is going to be far less acute than what you'd have to suffer through if you didn't have the proper comfort meds AND weren't using them appropriate like you have indicated.

Questions:

  1. What medications/substance do you use throughout the day right now? How do you use them (dosage/frequency/ROA)?
  2. How long have you been taking Xanax, are you prescribed it and how much do you normally take (for what effect)?
  3. Is there any chance you can get yourself into an outpatient program or at least some kind of mutual support group (could be AA/NA but could also be MBSR, doesn't have to be explicitly about recovery, just not super judgmental about it)?
  4. What issues do you foresee when it comes to your plans? You're probably the best judge of what your own goals should be right now, and your goals should have a lot to do with your flaws (bad habits, character "faults" or whatever). We are all nothing if not fallible creatures, and growth requires we explore this at times unsavory aspect of our lives. First things first though, you need to stabilize in your early recovery.
  5. Have you ever tried a buprenorphine outpatient program before, not just for the acute withdrawal but perhaps for at least an extended detox (6 months)? If things don't go as planned for you you would do well to consider this option.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top