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Bupe helping precipitated withdrawal

Been on suboxen for three years now.last year I stopped the suboxen and started back on the oxycodone for a bit. Well I stopped the oxy to go back to the suboxen, that's when I learned a very good lesson . I only waited 12 hours after taking 20 to 30 ml of oxy daily. WHACK! Right into PW. Horrible! Thought I was in hell. Last month I had two hips replaced and was in extreme pain . I thought here we go again. Started taking oxycodone again for pain.20 to 35 ml a day. Today I took my first sub. Please get this , you have to wait!!!!!! I waited exactly 24 hours , scored a 12 or so on the cows scale. I took a half of sub film, waited for 15 mins got the chills, eyes were watering so I went to bed and curled up under the blanket expecting another ride to hell, but it didn't happen waited 30 mins took the other half, s started feeling good. So I came back downstairs , and waited another 45 minutes and took another whole one , and now I feel great. If you don't get anything out of this . Just try to get this one point please just wait at least 24 hours and you will be fine. You do not want PW . Believe me. Thank you for reading and I hope I helped someone out there
 
So, I ran out of Suboxone for a day. Over did my take homes. Was on 12mg daily. Last 3 days before I ran out I did 10 8 8. I did my last 8mg dose at 6am and at 11pm I did some doc,30mg (felt nothing other than relaxation). The next morning at 9am (27h after suboxone)I did 60mg and felt a nice buzz for about 2 hours. This morning, 21 hours after my 60mg I took 8mg of Suboxone and feel great. All that being said, I drank about a gallon of water yesterday, and have an extremely fast metabolism. The only thing that happen was that I had to take a shit about 15 min after the suboxone. I wouldn't risk any less than at least 20 hours if your sure you've flushed the drug and have a quick metabolism. Anything else I'd wait 24+. Although I think the 24h+ is for those who have been using constantly, not just a small slip up. Although, again, I was able to wait 21 hours after extra bad/hard doc to dose Suboxone, it only made me feel 10% better but didn't send me into PW. I was wondering, how long till PW start? Is it instant, 5min, 30min, when are you out of the threshold for them?:?
 
I'm starting suboxone today I've tried it in the past and waited 24 hrs before taking 4mg after doing heroin and it seemed like it didn't help at all I was still in withdrawal. It wasn't worse just not any better so I shot some heroin and it made me feel better.did I just not do enough suboxne or what? Need some hwlp
 
queenbee45805 said:
I'm starting suboxone today I've tried it in the past and waited 24 hrs before taking 4mg after doing heroin and it seemed like it didn't help at all I was still in withdrawal. It wasn't worse just not any better so I shot some heroin and it made me feel better.did I just not do enough suboxne or what? Need some hwlp
Click to expand...

This has happened to me almost every time I get on subs. I never wait 24 hours like people say. Usually about 14-16 hours is as much as I can take. And that is coming from a daily habit of 300mg/Oxy a day for months at a time. I don't think I've ever had PW, but I usually just feel really crappy on day 1 of subs (very lethargic, high anxiety, but nothing worse) and it seems they don't provide any help initially. By day 2 things start to improve, and by day 3 you should be close to normal.

Oddly enough I just got back on subs this past weekend after another hard Oxy run, and I actually felt pretty good this time on day 1. I waited about 15 hours, so I don't know why sometimes it seems to help, and sometimes that first day is hell.
 
Hey Guys I know this is an old thread but I hope someone finds this and it helps them avoid the Hell I went through. I have been on 8mg of Suboxone for 6 years. Unfortunately I dabble occasionally. Recently I came into (100) 10mg Methadone pills. I need to mention I got off 140mg of Methadone a day under a Doctors care and made the transfer to Suboxone which was life changing. No more clinics, no more junkies to tempt me into scoring Benzo's or an extra bottle of Methadone or anything else for the matter. Lifestyle change is everything to me. So here is what happened. I crushed (10) 10mg Methadone pills then diluted them in water, drank it back and bam nod city. See the interesting thing is you can take Methadone on top of Subs but not the other way around. So for ten days I happily enjoyed my 100mg Methadone nod. Now this part is extremely important. So without being in any withdrawal and about 18hrs off the Methadone I took an 8mg Suboxone and Holy SH*T! I went into whats known as precipitated withdrawal. It was like being at the peak level of withdrawal all at once. We all know what withdrawal feels like but take your worst experience at times it by 100. This lasted for days not hours. It gradually got better and I slowly started taking my Subs again but had to at a much higher dose to get back on track. This totally f'd my system up. It was not worth it. Methadone has a crazy long half life and its different for everyone. I had forgotten the detox weened me of the Methadone held me for three day observation which allowed me to go into withdrawal before administering the Suboxone 4mg at a time. Now as I stated earlier I dabble. I find I can breakthrough 8mg on 300mg of oxycodone. I know, what a waste of money. The next day I can take 150mg to do the trick and so on. What can I say I have no patience and always had a high tolerance and Suboxone does a great job blocking. The tricky thing is unlike Methadone retaking the Subs is usually ok after about 12hrs after my last oxycodone dose but thats me. It is still not enough time because I feel crappy for a few days before all things return normal. I am not here to tell anyone the formula but to say don't be like me stay on your subs. If you get urges like me talk to your Doc and maybe go up on your Sub dose a little and spread it out throughout the day. For me I find Subs most effective in the morning and early evening instead of all at once. It gives me that slight energy boost and calming feeling. Don't dib and dab its costly and you can really hurt yourself physically and mentally. I write this as a reminder to myself that after doing 3 bundles a day down to 140mg of methadone down to 4mg of subs twice a day anybody can live a better life. I cower to the opiate what can I say. I make no excuse but hope I can spare someone the misery I have experienced. Be strong and God Bless.
 
Taking more gear is the most irresponsinle thing i ever heard...
I had a friend who was taking subutex sublingually but really wanted a hit...
It didn't give him the usual rush so he ended up doing 4 bags in all and passed the fuck out (4 bags was not unusual for him). It took us about 10 minutes to notice he wasn't breathing. He died before the ambulance arrived.
So bear that in mind.
Caused a lot of people a lot of shit and still does all these years later.
X
 
That help may be here but you might wanna be more specific in what you need help with.
Can you elaborate?
 
Ive been on Oxy's for a few years and they just don't help my pain any longer I just take them not to be sick. I'm thinking of trying Bup to get off the pills but such a chicken about Wd's waiting 24 hours scares the crap out of me. Would snorting them shorten the effectiveness in other words they don't last as long as when taken orally ? Also Ive read that Bup just won't do it for some people. What happens if I try it and nothing happens then I'm into the Wd's hard ? Can you just take an Oxy right on top of it to get right again ?
 
PillPoppingAnimal said:
the truth is, we [addicts] know much more about bupe than doctors and nurses do, at least us smart ones who research... the same things the drs are reading, we can too just by going onto google, and we understand is 10x's better since we actually do it, and also are very interested.

i get wayy better info on BL/internet research than any doctor, i used to tell my dr whod RX me oxycodone a lot of information that he simply didnt understand or didnt know.

same with suboxone dr's, the only thing u need to do to become a certified suboxone salesman is (obviously be a Dr.) take a little test on simple things like side effects, dosing, and stupid shit like that...easy peezy


also, nurses dont realy know shit, they aint close to a doctor.
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As a nurse in a dual dx facility (addiction + mental illness, usually just depression) I take much offense to this. Nurses have 4yrs of college & can have up to 8 with a masters. As a nurse that also ended up with a monster opiate addiction, I can tell you while there is a lot of good info on here. There is also a lot of misinformation as well. Every persons body chemistry is different. That is why the cows scale is used. Also, up to 32mg for an induction is needed at times. If for some reason w/d is not decreased to an appropriate level upon first sub dosage. A lot of patients will assume this is due to precipitated w/d's. Which is normally not the case, it is just the progression of w/d's & the initial dose of sub was not enough to fill all of the receptors due to a large tolerance. Of course we want the patient to be comfortable on the smallest dose possible. But, in my case I was not stable until 24mg of sub. I was able to decrease tremendously down to 2mg after the first week. But, dosages up to 32mg can be effective during induction. If one does find themselves in precipitated W/D's more sub will not hurt, it helps. It knocked whatever opiate was still in your system off of your receptors. But, you still have free receptors. It is not because it knocked the opiate off of your receptors & filled them. So, yes you need more sub to fill the remaining receptors. This is also why "dope" will make you feel better at this point. Because there are still free receptors. The dosage will depend on your habit, ROA, and DOC. So, your nurses were not "dumb nurses" they were far more educated on the subject matter than you. Also, while the doctors do have a short 1 week course & test to be able to prescribe sub. It is not just a simple test. It's a 60 hour course & test that must be repeated yearly. Also, RN's make 52$ an hour here. So, while not many have a Porsche. Many of us at least have a nice Audi ? Spread the knowledge!
 
Look everybody is different. I take subs when the dough is low after 6hrs of no dope or oxy, that's when I start feeling sick(fucked up right? Lol). No p/w at all, maybe a 5 minute hot flash/chills like a poster mentioned above. I don't think these are hard rules for subs, like u need to be thrashing around in the depths of wd, this just isn't true in my case. I used to induct myself monthly and never had a problem 4-8mg and I'm good, no physical wd but the subs fuck with me psychologically so I avoid taking them unless it's absolutely necessary. It should be noted that I have some pretty serious preexisting psychological problems to begin with but the subs seem to exacerbate them. Look I'm not saying everyone go induct yourself after 6hrs, not at all. Unless you know your body and how you'll react then you should wait longer cause I've seen others try to do the same as me and end up all fucked up. I'm just saying these "rules" everyone's talking about don't apply to everybody, were all different.
 
Good thing I found blue light. The other day I went into precipitated withdrawals. I panicked. My head was ringing and I was so sick. I didn't know what to do so I got some more h. I felt better but I didn't get high or anythin . So the next day I set a time clock for 30 he's then dosed again. Today I feel better. That precipitated withdraw was crazy. Never ever again will I take it too early. Which is crazy cause I've used it on and off for 10 years. I used to dose a half 4mg in the morning then do dope all day and never had this problem. I got too comfortable and thought I can play with it. Nope. Hope I can get through this. I just relapsed two months ago and before that I had five years clean and sober
 
Welcome back Ant1982!!
If you were sober for that long you know the drill.
Start over and do it again. You know you are better off without this.
Good luck!
Erik
 
Yes would like to add support for nurses especially - my wife is clinical nurse and is highly experienced who in fact reads the medical journals more than many doctors should. Nurses are routinely saving lives by correcting over worked and tired Dr's who often make dosing or medication mistakes that would otherwise endanger or even kill their patients. Thank God for good nurses. My wife is highly experienced in illicit drug use, drug actions/interactions etc due to being married to me.

She often makes opiate addicts who are in for heart surgery usually (valve replacement) comfortable by dosing them with enough morphine or oxycodone/hydromorphone to hold them including benzos for sleep. While other staff do have a tendency to discriminate against users, experienced nurses like my wife know that it is crucial to patients recovery to have the patient comfortable, and more importantly, those patients are much less likely to have their partners administer a shot of H into the patients cannular - which is really common and of course life threatening.

Never treat health professionals poorly, they are responsible for your care and they have the right and the ability to help you over and above what's required or to allow you to suffer more than is necessary, the choice is yours a lot if the time. You may be a Junkie but you don't have to act like one, if you understand what I mean - gives us all a bad name. I put that behaviour in the same category as those who leave their used needles anywhere but a sharps bin away from kids and the public at large.

Rant over.
 
Hey guys, hoping someone is till reading this thread. I've been on an off heroin a number of times over the last years, and have always seamlessly inducted onto subuxone whenever I decided to clean up. I relapsed again recently and was snorting 4-5 bags a day. I waited my usual time to start subs (about 18 hours; I had done the last bag at around 6pm and it was the following morning), took about 2mg and immediately went into PW, which lasted for hours and hours. I assumed that maybe I had taken it too soon so waited all day, until the middle of last night and took another small dose of sub. Same thing. Nausea, horrible, painful retching when I have nothing in my stomach until eventually green bile comes agonizingly up. I'm now two days since I did the last heroin and just retched again. I have stomach cramps and the nausea but no other WD symptoms now. Earlier I had sweats, restleg leg, hair standing up.

What gives? I've never had trouble before with sub. I could do dope all week then go away for a weekend with friends and just switch to sub until Monday if I wanted. Starting was always absolutely painless and other than occasional sleeplessness I generally did fine on it. Never ever had PW before and now it's two days and I'm scared to take any more sub.

Have I switched back and forth too many times? I can't believe my tolerance was too high with a 4-5 bag a day H habit, but could that be it? I'm really mystified, and obviously this is excruciating, so any advice anyone can give very much appreciated. Also I've spent the last 24 hours reading every thread I can find, and I can't find any where someones's PW lasts this long or this intensely under these circumstances. Thanks in advance.
 
I have the same problem. I'm on day four of using subs although my first day I waited 18+, hours took a small piece of a sub strip and felt the heat turn on not that warm sensation but sitting in Satan's hot tub feeling where every pore in your body producing sweat and you dont know whether you should shit, piss, puke or jump off a bridge and retire your physical body. Or you can run to your nearest dope dealer and use about 5 bags of white dope, not china white, but some white shit. 1 hour later 9am It made me feel about 80% better but I still felt shit all day. Day two I was 24 hours no dope and starting to withdraw not like I normally would have been so I knew the sub did something I decided to take 4mg sublingualy it made me feel at about 80%. Four hours later I took another half but it did nothing. the next day I took a full one and still feel at 80%. What is going on? I am almost 72 hours no dope and I still feel kinda shitty??? Im really hoping tomorrow im at 100%. I used for ten years straight got clean for three and relapsed for about a 6 month stint. I really didnt think it would be this hard????
 
Gr8wrtr said:
As a nurse in a dual dx facility (addiction + mental illness, usually just depression) I take much offense to this. Nurses have 4yrs of college & can have up to 8 with a masters. As a nurse that also ended up with a monster opiate addiction, I can tell you while there is a lot of good info on here. There is also a lot of misinformation as well. Every persons body chemistry is different. That is why the cows scale is used. Also, up to 32mg for an induction is needed at times. If for some reason w/d is not decreased to an appropriate level upon first sub dosage. A lot of patients will assume this is due to precipitated w/d's. Which is normally not the case, it is just the progression of w/d's & the initial dose of sub was not enough to fill all of the receptors due to a large tolerance. Of course we want the patient to be comfortable on the smallest dose possible. But, in my case I was not stable until 24mg of sub. I was able to decrease tremendously down to 2mg after the first week. But, dosages up to 32mg can be effective during induction. If one does find themselves in precipitated W/D's more sub will not hurt, it helps. It knocked whatever opiate was still in your system off of your receptors. But, you still have free receptors. It is not because it knocked the opiate off of your receptors & filled them. So, yes you need more sub to fill the remaining receptors. This is also why "dope" will make you feel better at this point. Because there are still free receptors. The dosage will depend on your habit, ROA, and DOC. So, your nurses were not "dumb nurses" they were far more educated on the subject matter than you. Also, while the doctors do have a short 1 week course & test to be able to prescribe sub. It is not just a simple test. It's a 60 hour course & test that must be repeated yearly. Also, RN's make 52$ an hour here. So, while not many have a Porsche. Many of us at least have a nice Audi  Spread the knowledge!
Click to expand...

I have to disagree with some of your claims. If one finds themselves in precipitated W/D's more Sub may likely not help. I found this to be true from my first hand experience and from watching my friend get hospitalized because of doing just that. He was admitted to the ER due to dehydration during precipitated W/D's. If you go into precipitated W/Ds in many cases that means your body needs more time from your last dose of a full agonist and it can even mean you have to wean yourself down more before making a full induction onto buprenorphine. Lets take the switch from methadone to Suboxone as an example. If you transfer from a 100 mg of methadone and wait 2-3 days before switching and still go into precipitated W/D taking more buprenorphine can likely make a bad situation into a horrific situation. It happened to me. Prescriber told me to wait a day until taking more. On another incident my friend was hospitalized from taking 16 mg of bupe if 2 mg increments. Each dose he took the precipitated W/D's became worse until he passed out from dehydration. At the ER the doctors broke through the incident with IV fent. My friend ended up tapering down to 20 mg of methadone before making the final switch to Sub. When I made the final switch it took me 10 days before most of the acute W/D's went away.
 
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I agree. Was like razor blades being pulled thro my guts. Projectile vomiting. Wild diarrhoea. Lasted a good 12hrs. Then felt fucked for a couple of days. Was performing. Did a bag going on stage. Woke up a mess about 12 hrs later. Dropped 3x2. Hour later ran to bathroom. Scary shit
 
Me too. I have it every way. Can't work out whether hell or heaven awaits. But you do stack the odds in yr favour the longer you leave it from the smallest possible smack/meth dose.
 
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