Has modern mdma changed from what it used to be?

[KAY PEE]

on one hand..............
i think you get that amazing feeling ... best of the best feeling when your new to mdma, new to the dance scene etc etc its the same as everything else...
can you remember the first time you maybe beatmatched, caught a wave, done a ollie, played in front of a crowd, rode a horse, first motorbike ???? just stop an think for a minute...
how fuckin amazing that felt ?? best feeling ever, which you always end up chasing but rarely top it.......
i think its the same with mdma, but obviously just more enhanced because of what md does....
everyone always goes on
( i started doing pills in 2001 that was when they were at there best blah blah )
( someone else will mention nah they were way better back in mid nineties),
i done plenty in mid nineties, only a couple pills gave me that, fuck this is ridiculously amazing,nothing can ever come close moment... both were when i was pretty new
to pills................ done loads what were meant to be the boys in 2000 onwards but were nothing special ( missed those legendary mitzis though )
i have had plenty of great times on them but only a few stand out among most, had my fair share of absolute shit too ( bunk pills, mcdonalds, rolex,clover, crown )

but on the other hand,
alcohol is alcohol........... but i bet everyone has a favourite beverage, and one that turns then into a complete knob
is all alcohol the same.... its all made with different shit, but eneds up being alcohol
NO !!!!
its all made with different shit, but ends up being still being labelled as alcohol...
DOES alcohol have a chemical structure, i dont know i havent got a clue about this stuff , but is the structure the same regardless of what its made of or how strong it is ??

i am talking shit now, so ill stop

 

[Mazzab]

on one hand..............
i think you get that amazing feeling ... best of the best feeling when your new to mdma, new to the dance scene etc etc its the same as everything else...
can you remember the first time you maybe beatmatched, caught a wave, done a ollie, played in front of a crowd, rode a horse, first motorbike ???? just stop an think for a minute...
how fuckin amazing that felt ?? best feeling ever, which you always end up chasing but rarely top it.......
i think its the same with mdma, but obviously just more enhanced because of what md does....
everyone always goes on
( i started doing pills in 2001 that was when they were at there best blah blah )
( someone else will mention nah they were way better back in mid nineties),
i done plenty in mid nineties, only a couple pills gave me that, fuck this is ridiculously amazing,nothing can ever come close moment... both were when i was pretty new
to pills................ done loads what were meant to be the boys in 2000 onwards but were nothing special ( missed those legendary mitzis though )
i have had plenty of great times on them but only a few stand out among most, had my fair share of absolute shit too ( bunk pills, mcdonalds, rolex,clover, crown )

but on the other hand,
alcohol is alcohol........... but i bet everyone has a favourite beverage, and one that turns then into a complete knob
is all alcohol the same.... its all made with different shit, but eneds up being alcohol
NO !!!!
its all made with different shit, but ends up being still being labelled as alcohol...
DOES alcohol have a chemical structure, i dont know i havent got a clue about this stuff , but is the structure the same regardless of what its made of or how strong it is ??

i am talking shit now, so ill stop

I agreed with your whole post until you made the alcohol reference. Yes alcohol is the same but comes in different forms. Beer, Wine, liquor: pressed mdma pills, mdma crystal. All have the respected substances but are represented differently.

 

[Folley]

Going from the test results from Edata etc then I can speculate that some of the precursors are 'tainted' these impurities will lead to a different kind of MDMA being produced. Just look back over the last say 10 years on the pills reported 'untested' on sites like pillreports.

Not really. Different impurities would just point to different starting precursors being used... the end product is the same, racemic MDMA.HCl. You would have to follow different chemical procedures to create various isomers or salts of MDMA, and there is little to no evidence that this takes place.



I would think that R-MDMA fumarate would stand out enough from "normal" MDMA that ecstasydata or streetworks, etc, would report it.




As far as alcohol goes, the different concentrations and even chemicals in the drink can change quite a bit. The comparison to MDMA wouldn't really stand unless other forms of the drug were being sold

 

[Bearlove]

Point is that MDMA is, was, and coincidentally always will be, MDMA. I'm sure you could make a genetically modified banana if you really wanted to, but it's not like that shit is actually going to get sold in a supermarket. Thus, a banana will always be a banana, perhaps one day you'll enjoy said banana more because you had a better set/setting for eating it.

What :D

 

[JWills20]

Just to clarify, I do agree that the MDMA experience changes, but the chemical itself doesn't. The first few times on MDMA are pretty unique and certainly not comparable to a banana - that was an ironic joke about the Isomer shit.

 

[Bearlove]

Not really. Different impurities would just point to different starting precursors being used... the end product is the same, racemic MDMA.HCl. You would have to follow different chemical procedures to create various isomers or salts of MDMA, and there is little to no evidence that this takes place.

I would think that R-MDMA fumarate would stand out enough from "normal" MDMA that ecstasydata or streetworks, etc, would report it.

As far as alcohol goes, the different concentrations and even chemicals in the drink can change quite a bit. The comparison to MDMA wouldn't really stand unless other forms of the drug were being sold

We have spoken about 4 types of MDMA ? If were saying that at the end of the day its 'still' MDMA then I agree with you 100%. You know, you have explained that the different types of MDMA can have different effects (Shulgin explains this in detail).

You know, you have explained before that the if a different type of precursor is used then the 'type' of MDMA produced will change - again this is still MDMA.

Of course having impurities points out different precursors being used - that was the point of my post?

 

[Folley]

You know, you have explained before that the if a different type of precursor is used then the 'type' of MDMA produced will change

This is untrue however.. nearly all synthesis route for MDMA, whether starting from sassafras, piperanol or MDP2P, will create racemic MDMA hydrochloride.


There are other forms of the salt such as fumarate and HBr, but it is still technically MDMA. These salts COULD have quite the effect on potency, as the HBr form of MDMA is 1.2 time less potent than the HCl version... but, considering the HCl is the easiest to obtain precursors for and the fact that it is the most stable form of the drug while also having a higher potency than the other forms.... it simply would make no sense to deal with the hassle of making anything else.


I truly don't believe anyone is making various isomers of MDMA though... at least not on a large scale. At the end of the day, profit is the main motivational factor... to make anything other than MDMA.HCl would very likely cut into their profits quite a bit and would create a product that is deemed inferior anyways.

 

[alasdairm]

but, considering the HCl is the easiest to obtain precursors for...

nonsense. you can buy citric acid otc in a drug store and you wouldn't turn a single head.

and the fact that it is the most stable form of the drug

can you provide some background material on the stability of mdma in its various salts forms. thanks.

surely there are other factors too? solubility...hygroscopicity? are these being taken into account? how would you know?

I truly don't believe anyone is making various isomers of MDMA though... at least not on a large scale.

how would you know?

...profit is the main motivational factor... to make anything other than MDMA.HCl would very likely cut into their profits quite a bit and would create a product that is deemed inferior anyways.

very likely? given that hydrochloric acid is significantly more expensive than, say, citric acid, i'd say that you're just guessing again...

why would a salt other that the hcl be "deemed inferior"? have you personally tried each or any of the different salts?



alasdair

 

[Folley]

I don't think there is a single study saying that actually details the actions of different MDMA salts, the only information I can find on the salts is second hand through forums like the Hive.


It would seem that MDMA citrate is hygroscopic though, obviously this is a problem when trying to sell a crystal and it's likely it would make pills much more difficult to hold their press as well.

MDMA tartrate and hydrobromide are less potent than the hydrochloride forms, so, are "inferior" for the majority of people.




You can get one ton of HCl for about half the price of a new Xbox, you can get one ton of tartaric acid for several thousand dollars.. Hydrobromide is a bit less than tartaric but it's right up there. Citric acid is around a thousand per ton. If you're looking at an extra $750 to cook up a salt that is less potent anyways, what would you do?

Cost, stability and potency all point to HCl being superior. I would love to try the different salts at equipotent doses and decide for myself, but as I said no one is selling it. I'm sure some chemists have whipped up small batches but I really do think there would be a LOT more talk about the salts if they were making their way into the pills the OP mentions. They are rather world famous and have been lab analyzed several times.


Different isomers and salts of MDMA surely exist, but I would think there is a reason that MDMA.HCl is the only form of the drug that gets reported in testing centers and chemistry papers

 

[SONN]

I think theres a lot of shit that gets passed off as MDMA that is either Methylone or something that will show up black on a test kit

I've had pure MDMA within a week of it being made and it was really awesome, I doubt it was different than what people were doing in the 90s

 

[alasdairm]

I don't think there is a single study saying that actually details the actions of different MDMA salts, the only information I can find on the salts is second hand through forums like the Hive.

thanks for the confirmation that you're basically trying to pass of guesses as facts. yet again.

I would think there is a reason

i would think so too. speculating at what those reasons might be is fine. but throwing around jargon in an attempt to make it sound like you know, is not.

alasdair

 

[Folley]

You completely ignore the part of my post that actually adds anything to the discussion and go straight for personal banter.. then when I actually take the time to study into it and and try to post my findings you dismiss it as "jargon"..



If my information is flawed, don't just tell me it's flawed. That helps no one. I want to learn and grow like everyone else, and if I'm spreading information that is wrong that needs to be stopped as quickly as possible. All the information available to me was pointing in the same direction, yet I would be very happy to see some opposing views.

 

[EyesSizeOfTheMoon]

Okay, fine...but I just feel like the new MDMA, especially from overseas is really different. I remember taking the red supermans and it left me hallucinating. I was seeing images clearly in my head, talking to myself, and the whole time I was never having any empathy, love,etc. I don't even roll that often. The last time I took real MDMA beside those pills were back in '09 and even then it was only twice, so my tolerance has nothing to do with it. The funny thing is is that other people have been getting the same complaint, so I'm not the only one.

 

[Folley]

^ uh, it seems like tolerance would have quite a bit to do with it? As in, if the last time you rolled was in 09 you would have no tolerance.


MDMA in high doses makes me hallucinate quite a bit, everytime I roll i get light visuals. Not every time can be amazing, either. I've had some very lackluster rolls that had barely any euphoria, and this is with the SAME EXACT STUFF that has given me the most intense euphoria of my life. These "lackluster" rolls were ones that were very visual, as well.

 

[cosmosmariner]

Have you tried piracetam. I found that is potentiated MDMA and helped make the comedown and next day good, too.