Has Dr Shulgin killed 100 British teenagers?

[lovepsychadelics]

The german pharma company Merc discovered MDMA in the early part of the 20th century but could find no practical application for it. It may have been used as a "truth drug" during the war. Fuck this is a bullshit article with 0 research and IMO the good Dr was a fucking genius! BTW he documents dosages and effects he tested on himself what others do with these substances ie dodgy production and selling products as things they are not as well as lack of education and laws create a very dangerous combination.

 

[infectedmushroom]

I didn't want to reply to this article because I didn't want to signify it's existance.

It's such utter crap the writer should be fired and fed an overdose of PMA.

For anyone to take this article than anything less than terrible, ammatuer journalism is laughable.

ho ho ho

 

[TangerinO]

Amen brother. I feel Hofmann deserves more credit for the changes in my life, but Shulgin has played his part

Yeah I was actually going to say, the night in question with my girlfriend involved a little bit of Shulgin and a little bit of Hoffmann. They get along really well

I agree though I have Hoffmann to thank for the majority of my expansion in conciousness. No offence Shulgin, but LSD will always be the perfect drug to me.

EDIT: Okay re read thread... OUTFOXED! If you haven't seen it, find it. I always knew Fox News was fucked, but I never dreamed it would be as bad as it actually is.

 

[losthippy]

As noxious as this article is, the upside is that it will provoke responses and debate. The author will either die of shame and ridicule or cop a knighthood.

 

[TendrilZ]

Has Henry Ford killed millions of people through climbing road tolls by greatly forwarding research into automotive engines?

 

[TheHandOfDeath]

This article is nothing short of disgusting. I have now lost even more faith in humanity, not just because this article was written but because 80% of readers will read this and take all of this exaggerated and negative information on board and not bother to actually research the facts.

There is no god.

Unfortunately in this day and age, that number is probably closer to 95%!
poor sheeple...

 

[Mr Blonde]

Also I should say to the mods, whilst this isn't directly related to Australian Drug Discussion, Shulgin is alot of ours hero.
I think people deserve to see such painful slander. Funny though, I always thought Britain had much better journalism then Australia...

I completely agree comrade; Shulgin is the God I pray to each night.

Seriously though, this article is almost defamation against him. I wonder if that figure they have only includes MDMA or if it includes other substances sold as 'Ecstasy'?

I'm sure most of us here feel that it's not Shulgin, who popularized MDMA and created many other substances, who is to blame. If it wasn't his drugs that people were using, it would be other substances and perhaps drugs discovered by someone who wasn't so honest about what was dangerous and potentially life threatening. If Governments and authorities were serious about reducing harms from drug use they would realize that the Sisyphean task of trying to eliminate supply and demand was not reducing the harms from drug use, and instead try policies that would actually help people such as proper education and trials of legal supply.

It is a bit of a stretch to vilify Dr Shulgn for a quarter of a century of MDMA deaths but he has a lot to answer for regarding the dicovery of a whole lot of shit drugs and their analogues though. Freedom of information is all well and good but some of his more dangerous discoveries were probably best left under wraps.

You can't have it both ways; either you are for freedom of information or against it. Obviously there are some situations (such as national security) where information is best kept from public availability for some time until it is no longer potentially dangerous, but a scientist who has done private experimentation and study into compounds that he was legally allowed to study has every right to publish his work in a way he sees fit. Besides, even if he hadn't published this information the internet is full of forums and sites discussing the synthesis of his compounds from different routes then those published, and also the synthesis details of various other compounds that could be considered even more dangerous. I have the feeling that the number of people killed by the free availability of these synthesis details is probably a lot less then those killed by the synthesis details of explosive and poisonous compounds freely available to anyone who knows how to type into Google.

 

[Busty St Clare]

Don't get me wrong, I am eternally grateful for most of his discoveries but even here on Bluelight you get too many idiots who use Phikal as a Bible and make it their life mission to tick off every ingredient in it. Personally I prefer only a handful of his 2C* and would be more than content to just enjoy lsd, mdma and natural occuring Tryptamines for the rest of my life. Phikal is better used as a guide and more importantly a warning for a lot of these compounds.

 

[drug_mentor]

It is a bit of a stretch to vilify Dr Shulgn for a quarter of a century of MDMA deaths but he has a lot to answer for regarding the dicovery of a whole lot of shit drugs and their analogues though. Freedom of information is all well and good but some of his more dangerous discoveries were probably best left under wraps.

How exactly do you expect a scientist to know whether the new drug he is making will be "shit"? Its fucking ridiculous to blame any scientist for discoveries they made in the pursuit of knowledge, just because said discoveries may have adverse consequences for other people, especially when those other people were acting with the knowledge they were taking a potentially harmful substance.

 

[Busty St Clare]

If Albert Einstein felt remorse after Hiroshima the Dr Shulgin can shoulder some responsibility too.

 

[Rolling Sly]

^ Absolutely right. Lets lock Shulgin up and have him tried for Drug War Crimes8)

How dare he research and record his findings, actually give legit knowledge on usage and harm reduction, invite people to ask their queries directly and give genuine passionate work towards drugs, its users and the war that wages over them. Gah, its as if he shoved pills down those innocent teens throats.

If my post didnt reek of netcasm enough, sometimes your posts really baffle me busty.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Don't get me wrong, I am eternally grateful for most of his discoveries but even here on Bluelight you get too many idiots who use Phikal as a Bible and make it their life mission to tick off every ingredient in it. Personally I prefer only a handful of his 2C* and would be more than content to just enjoy lsd, mdma and natural occuring Tryptamines for the rest of my life. Phikal is better used as a guide and more importantly a warning for a lot of these compounds.

I agree that some do see it as a checklist of substances; I hate those kinds of posts in Psychedelic Drugs, and I don't like the pretentiousness some of the users have regarding these psychedelics. At the same time though, Shulgin didn't intend PiHKAL to become a checklist for people, and he himself says that many of the compounds are either pretty useless, not much fun or potentially dangerous.

If Albert Einstein felt remorse after Hiroshima the Dr Shulgin can shoulder some responsibility too.

Given that he warned against the use of his compounds, and that he was not the one who produced them for public consumption and was not the one who often sold them as different drugs, I'd say he bears minimal responsibility for the deaths.

 

[drug_mentor]

If Albert Einstein felt remorse after Hiroshima the Dr Shulgin can shoulder some responsibility too.

I think theres a difference between a technology that ended hundreds of thousands of lives in a split second (on more than one occasion since they dropped one on Nagasaki too) and coming up with some compounds that a number of people hurt themselves with after making the CHOICE to use them irresponsibly. There was no choice for all those Japanese in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, somehow I doubt that over decades every drug that Shulgin created combined has not caused a fraction of the damage those bombs did instantly.

To me thats a ridiculous analogy, those poor bastard who fried instantly had ZERO say in their own fate, if you OD or fry yourself on some RC you can not say the same thing.

 

[Busty St Clare]

What about the thousands (and their desendants) who slowly died from cancer and other mutations decades after the initial bombings?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Phikal was banned in this country (and many more around the world) so it seems pointless to defend his warnings in this publication. My problem is too many place Dr Shulgin on a pedestal like some sort of trippers mesiah, when reality is not all of his discovers were wonderous. For every person who has enjoyed 2CB, there is almost just as many bad trips from 2CE. Even in the last few days here in Aust DD there was an established member talking about candy fliping with a 2C*, something that Shulgin himself warned was probably stupidly neurotoxic. For me I see most of Phikal to be more of a "How to produce adulterated ecstacy" than a psyconaut's wonder book. Nothing he discovered really compares to pure MDMA.

Shulgin groupies are just as sad and pathetic as Hunter S Thompson groupies.

 

[Pandemonium]

That has got to be one of the most disappointing things I've read in a long time. The thing that really pisses me off is that people will believe this - if people aren't educated on recreational drugs this kind of spin will certainly turn somebody against them. I think it completely loses sight of what the aim on regulating drugs is for: reducing harm to individuals. The premise is that what is good for the individual is good for the community, so my question is how does banning MDMA and forcing it into a de-regulated market while ignoring the fact that pills don't come with a list of ingredients or dosage protect individuals?

I'm 100% sure it isn't Dr Shulgin's fault that any old person with a pill press can put BZP or PMA in a pill, ultimately it's the person who makes the pill who is to blame. And, for the record, MDMA is not dangerous - the article proves it's not dangerous by stating 100 deaths in 35 years! I absolutely agree that a teenager couldn't make MDMA in their bedroom, MDMA labs take up a ridiculous amount of space and good luck creating it without a chemistry degree. If the author of this article did their research properly, they would realise that psychiatrists used MDMA on their patients before it became illegal, and I can totally see why, it's a fantastic drug and I don't think I've met anybody who's taken MDMA and hasn't fallen in love with it.

This kind of conservative bullshit is the reason people get sick and can die from taking adulterated pills - closing your eyes and covering your ears at the sound of the word "ecstasy", or anything for that matter, won't fix any problems at all.

 

[drug_mentor]

What about the thousands (and their desendants) who slowly died from cancer and other mutations decades after the initial bombings?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Phikal was banned in this country (and many more around the world) so it seems pointless to defend his warnings in this publication. My problem is too many place Dr Shulgin on a pedestal like some sort of trippers mesiah, when reality is not all of his discovers were wonderous. For every person who has enjoyed 2CB, there is almost just as many bad trips from 2CE. Even in the last few days here in Aust DD there was an established member talking about candy fliping with a 2C*, something that Shulgin himself warned was probably stupidly neurotoxic. For me I see most of Phikal to be more of a "How to produce adulterated ecstacy" than a psyconaut's wonder book. Nothing he discovered really compares to pure MDMA.

Shulgin groupies are just as sad and pathetic as Hunter S Thompson groupies.

So in your mind, its a scientists fault that he created some compounds in the pursuit of knowledge, had the good sense to actually WARN people of some of the dangers in his books, but because OUR GOVERNMENT decides to ban this books its HIS fault?! Thats the most backwards fucking logic I have ever heard. Many of the drugs he researched probably aren't widely recreational but its beneficial to have some data on these substances rather than them being pushed out by RC companies with no data on their effects or dangers.

What about the thousands who slowly died from cancer after Hiroshima? I do not diminish their suffering for one second, infact I feel terrible for those people and as a matter of fact most Westerners attitude towards those bombings shocks me. I just don't see how they are in any way comparable to people who actively ingest RC's and face a negative consequence, as the former had no choice in their own fate, the latter did. Nobody who fucks themselves up on RC's has anybody to blame, I fried the fuck out of myself on Psilocybin mushrooms in 2007, should I blame god (if I thought he existed) for creating them? Or blame myself for deciding to use them stupidly? In my mind its the latter.

I am not a Shulgin groupy but I think he is a man that deserves some respect from the recreational drug using community for the time he put in, as well as the sacrifices and discoveries he made for us all, not to mention just his intellect in general. I do not consider him to be a messiah or anything close, but its fucking slanderous to suggest he had any hand in the deaths of people who misused a substance just because he researched said substance and had some positive shit to say. Who the fuck here is a Shulgin groupie anyway? Just having some respect for the man and being displeased at the negative light this article has cast on him hardly qualifies as a groupy in my view. I suppose merely disagreeing with you is enough to cop a negative label 8)

 

[rachamim]

Hahaha, the world never changes. Penicillin almost killed me, better ban it, thrn dig up thr motherfuc*er who invented the automobile since a truck killed one of my dogs last week. Simpeltons. Ironically though, this was posted in the same week that someone posted a Russian propaganda video on Krokidil. It is amazing that this irrational nonsense still takes place. Still, coNecting MDMA to some Hindu sex cult was priceless.

 

[spacejunk]

personal responsibility means nothing to tabloid hacks. it is all about scapegoats, fear-mongering and finger pointing.
busty, you're either trolling or deluded.

 

[George Jung 1990]

Alexander Shulgin = Legend

As for the article above = Garbage

 

[Stato]

Oh dear, what a terrible article, Dr Shulgin is a monster for doing his job and stumbling upon various stimulant and psychoactive substances, anyone who performs such a task should be locked up and the key thrown away! Even if they are heavily talented and gifted in their field. Death = bad, right? Never mind the cause exactly, stupidity in use of a chemical..... Hmm...

Shouldn't we be writing articles about whoever synthesized hydrogen cyanide, Dr Leonid Andrussow... What a monster! Never mind the legitimate uses, even if it is a poison... The article makes mdma sound like a poison too.