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grapefruit ( enzymes )

A theory would suggest that grapefruit juice could block some neurotoxicity. Considering that it would also block some breakdown of the MDMA, it could change the subjective experience too. It looks perfectly safe to try if you want to do so.
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how? thats the first time i hear anything about grapefruit juice blocking neurotoxicity...

no, the enzyme inhibited by grapefruit juice is only marginally involved in the metabolism of mdma. there shouldn't be any difference here (that is if you're not one of those especially poor metabolisers concerning cyp2d6 (5-10% of the population). in that case blocking one of the "backup enzymes" would probably be a bad idea)
 
Considering that MDMA is best absorbed in a base pH environment, it actually would likely hurt your roll to drink to highly acidic grapefruit juice with it.

There's a reason why my friends all avoided acidic drinks and actually generally took Tums or Rolaids before dropping to basify our pH.
 
thanks for looking it up. i found the original on reddit.

but i think they got it mixed up. someone proposed that mdma is metabolised into mda by cyp3a4 which is what the whole speculation in that reddit thread was based upon then.

i have looked up a few more papers and cyp3a4 (among others, mainly cyp2d6) is always mentioned as catalysing the step from mdma to hmma rather than from mdma to mda (cyp1a2 and cyp2b6 seem to be responsible for that, not a single paper mentions cyp3a4 here).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2698942/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3124246/
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/338/1/310.full (although this one is co-authored by ricaurte, so take it with a grain of salt)


but what's interesting, is that mdma seems to be a pretty powerful inhibitor of cyp2d6 and cyp3a4 itself. so different phenotypes with these enzymes don't seem to make much of a difference. on the other hand this could cause unpleasant interactions when you're on some kind of medication that is metabolised mainly by cyp2d6 or cyp3a4.
 
MagickalKat777 said:
Considering that MDMA is best absorbed in a base pH environment, it actually would likely hurt your roll to drink to highly acidic grapefruit juice with it.

There's a reason why my friends all avoided acidic drinks and actually generally took Tums or Rolaids before dropping to basify our pH.
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Please excuse me for derailing from the OP. But MagickalKat777 your post got me wondering about this. Although acidic in taste and full of citric acid. Oranges, excluding the concentrated (denatured) product, are actually alkaline according to my knowledge. So would that mean it would enhance the absorption or at least have no effect at all. I myself never noticed any lessening of effect when ingesting MDMA with freshly squized orange juice.

"The chart below categorizes a food as either acidic or alkaline based on the effect consumption of the food has on urine pH. For example, if a food tends to increase the acidity of urine after it is ingested, it is classified as an acid forming food. Conversely, if a food increases the alkalinity of urine after it has been ingested, it is classified it as an alkaline forming food. The effect foods have on urine pH may be quite different than the pH of the foods themselves. For example, orange juice is a highly acidic food due to its high citrus acid content, but after being metabolized it will cause urine to become alkaline." taken from http://www.ctds.info/acidic-foods.html



However MDMA seems to work when ingested with carbonated drinks or grapefruit juice made from concentrate. So in my experience it seems to have little influence acidic or alkaline.

Could be placebo but I did try the experiment with grapefruit juice. First with fresh and after I read you needed the concentrate type, with the concetrate. And it did have an effect, could be placebo but it sure made me have an eye shuttering few hours.
 
If CYP34A plays any role along any step of the breakdown of MDMA, it would not necessarily make you roll harder but it would certainly increase your risk of bad side effects from the M! People who take medications (even birth control pills and antibiotics) should NOT drink grapefruit juice or eat grapefruit except in small amounts infrequently, because the grapefruit inhibits the breakdown and increases the risk; ie: blood clots with birth control pills become more likely since the hormones stay at higher levels in your body for longer than they should. Our livers break down drugs and toxins for a reason, I really recommend against trying to tell your liver to slow down and keep a drug in your body for longer than it should!!
 
Here's a list of some other CYP inhibitors but not all. Star fruit (Averrhoa carambola)
Pomegranate (Nephelium lappaceum)
Pawpaw, common papaw, papaya (Carica papaya)
Grapefruit (white) (Citrus paradise)
The following fresh fruit juices have much less activity (ie no more than 40% blockage) and are therefore effectively inactive
Valencia orange (Citrus sinensis)
Mango (Mangifera indica)
Rambutan (Passiflora edulis )
Kiwi fruit, Chinese gooseberry (Actinidia chinensis)
Dragon fruit (Hylocereus undatus)
Passion fruit (Punica granatum)
Tangerines - inactivity reported.
 
emkee_reinvented said:
Please excuse me for derailing from the OP. But MagickalKat777 your post got me wondering about this. Although acidic in taste and full of citric acid. Oranges, excluding the concentrated (denatured) product, are actually alkaline according to my knowledge. So would that mean it would enhance the absorption or at least have no effect at all. I myself never noticed any lessening of effect when ingesting MDMA with freshly squized orange juice.

"The chart below categorizes a food as either acidic or alkaline based on the effect consumption of the food has on urine pH. For example, if a food tends to increase the acidity of urine after it is ingested, it is classified as an acid forming food. Conversely, if a food increases the alkalinity of urine after it has been ingested, it is classified it as an alkaline forming food. The effect foods have on urine pH may be quite different than the pH of the foods themselves. For example, orange juice is a highly acidic food due to its high citrus acid content, but after being metabolized it will cause urine to become alkaline." taken from http://www.ctds.info/acidic-foods.html



However MDMA seems to work when ingested with carbonated drinks or grapefruit juice made from concentrate. So in my experience it seems to have little influence acidic or alkaline.

Could be placebo but I did try the experiment with grapefruit juice. First with fresh and after I read you needed the concentrate type, with the concetrate. And it did have an effect, could be placebo but it sure made me have an eye shuttering few hours.
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There is a lot wrong with that site... And we're talking about pH values in the digestive system. Orange juice would still be acidic before metabolism even if the information on that site proves to be true (I don't have the time to do the research at the moment).

The only grapefruit juice that would work by the way is the white grapefruit juice concentrate - you need a good 3 to 4 times of most red grapefruit juice concentrate to get the same amount of naringin as you get from white GFJ.

Interfering with enzymes for the purpose of MDMA potentiation has the potential to be more harmful than it does to be successful, particularly if you take any other medications. Be cautious with this. It isn't as dangerous as cimetidine but it can be with the wrong drugs.
 
Totally agree not very scientific prove that site but it worded what i ment quite well. That essensially oranges, lemons and grapefruit are alkaline forming foods with an high acidic component, the citric acids. And wondering which of the two is the part that effects absorption.

Also agree on the enzyme inhibition part don't play with them not worth the potential risks!
 
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