Going to be starting 8mg-2mg SL Suboxone Film Soon; Need Help

[bluesteyes]

As some of you may know, I have been struggling with tapering off of Percocets and/or Extended Release OxyContin for the past few months. Right now I am averaging around 90mg of Percocets per day. I received a script for 8mg-2mg SL Suboxone Film today by the top notch addiction specialist doctor in our area. I was given a small script of instant release Oxycodone that I was instructed to start immediately. I have the rest of this week off from work. I have been told to take the last IR Oxycodone late Thursday evening, go to bed, and wait as long as I can the next morning before attaching the Subuxone film. The doctor thought it was a good idea to skip work that day. Not only to allow my body to get acclimated to the new medication over a 3 day weekend, but again, to make sure I don't take the film too soon (or I will get majorly sick). The longer I wait, the better.....I should just focus on the fact that have a comfortable bed and no responsibilities that day. I don't think he meant that I should wait, like, half a day and go into utter agony, but he has some patients who foolishly ignore his instructions, apply the film too early, and then end up in real trouble.

What has been people's general experience with this drug? When first applying the film, did it take away the withdrawals pretty quickly? That's really all I am interested in at this juncture, but as a chronic pain patient, some pain relief would be nice too. While the film doesn't provide euphoria, the doc did mention to me that patients typically see a bit more emotional stability - especially mental health patients like me who suffer from generalized anxiety disorder. He says it's a relatively quick taper, but for some users, it can be hell to come off of. Some patients of his have been on the lowest dose for years, but compared to the smack habit they had, it is definitely the lesser of two evils.

If you've had terrible experiences with this med, I would rather you not post in this thread, because I am terribly anxious about taking it, and I need as much self confidence and assurance as I can get that I won't suffer. That being said, I realize there are no perfect solutions to anything. I want to avoid typical pitfalls and mistakes. He was adamant about dissolving the film on the inside of my check as opposed to putting it in front of my teeth or something like that.

This is the last bead on the rosary for me. If this doesn't work, I will have no choice but to go into rehab. And that's a complicated issue. For one thing, I reside in a semi-rural area. Secondly, as the prescribing doctor said to me today, rehabs in this country are designed for street drug users or guys like Robert Downey Jr. (in other words, folks with a big wad of cash). If you are in the middle, you're kind of screwed unless you find the perfect fit. They aren't really catered to chronic pain patients who have never used street drugs, don't have issues with booze, but just got caught up in prescription painkillers. if you have mental health issues that go along with the chronic pain problems, it can be even trickier. With the rise in prescription drug problems, we really need to start creating detox facilities that are more individualized and can cater to special needs that don't cost a fortune and are generally covered as preferred providers with insurance. But that's another topic (and rant) for another day. I hope to God that the Suboxone works for me, so that I can begin to work on the chronic pain and mental health issues without having this monkey on my back.

Wish me luck, and thanks for your advice and assistance.

 

[keeping]

just so you know, yes don't take the strip too soon, but you don't need to be howling in the very depths of acute withdrawals - just take it when you're starting to rattle a bit.
subs take about 10ish minutes to begin to work for me, and don't spit the strip/tablet out right away. to get the most out of it leave it in for 10 minutes or so.

good luck man, the only thing i'd say is try not to use them for long - subs are great for tapering off opiates completely but once you've got a sub habit they can be even harder to jump off than oxy or heroin.

 

[chelle216]

Be forewarned that you might not feel 100% better immediately, and may even question whether you feel slightly more run down for up to about a 1/2 hour after letting it dissolve. It's probably a matter of the natural anxiety from the fear of taking it too soon. You might want to cut a strip into 8ths and take one 1mg piece every 45mins until you feel well. This helps you to gauge your initial reaction and keeps you from taking an unnecessarily large dose. As far as pain control, I'd hazard a guess and say it's offers about 1/4 of the analgesia that oxycodone provides.

 

[Feelingawful]

Please listen to the others telling you to take it slow on the Suboxone. I'm day 13 without them and feel pretty bad

 

[Feelingawful]

I was on them for two years started at 8mg then jumped at 16. I was placed on them to get off Percocet and vicodine. I gained 40 pounds and my lower legs and ankles started swelling the last 6 months. Day one my swelling went away.

 

[bluesteyes]

The doc really felt that a 8mg-2mg SL film would equate quite well with 90mg of IR Oxycodone. I hope this is the case. I would rather feel as though I am taking too much as opposed to too little. I just want to avoid withdrawal symptoms after the Suboxone kicks in. Wish me luck, it all starts tomorrow.

 

[Ilove2nod]

Good luck bluesteyes! I have been where you are, more than once.. but am now currently stable on my subutex, at 8mg a day, taken in 2mg doses 4x a day.. that is working for me, I am on maintenance for more than just the fact that I had a serious opiate addiction, I was a very bad heroin and pharm opioid addict to drugs like oxy and diaudid off and on for years as well as a raging cocaine addiction, getting on subs, relapsing, getting back on subs, relapsing, and finally staying on the subutex I have now been taking daily with absolutely no slip ups for just over a year, with opiates at least, coke every so often, but not nearly as much.. I wish subs were the cure all drug, in that they were able to stop cravings for more than just opioids( like also stop cocaine and other types of drug cravings), but both suboxone and subutex( I have taken both) work pretty damn good for opiate cravings, once you get adjusted.. that first week or maybe even longer, is probably going to be a little hard, it has always been for me, but mainly just mentally, and not being able to completely erase wanting to still take opioids, like oxy.. Your habit, isn't even close to what mine was, doing well over 300-500mg of oxy a day all depending on my income that day, and I was able to get adjusted fully within about 1.5 weeks after making the switch.. I am so glad I ultimately stuck with subs though at this moment in time, I feel as good as I have ever felt these days taking my buprenorphine, and other 2 meds, Adderall 20mg a day, and ~3-4mg of klonopin a day, because I have an awesome sub doc who is nice enough to prescribe me these things with the subs( I also struggle with ADHD and severe anxiety and insomnia).. A lot of them wont, even if you do have more issues mentally than just opiate addiction, like me.. which really pisses me off what some people have to go through, just to live their lives and feel normal. But some are very understanding, and those are the ones to have... sounds like you may have yourself a good doc by reading your posts, which can make all the difference in the world when trying to kick opiates, and get on subs.. try and do the taper, as some have pointed out above me.. I couldn't do it! kept relapsing, so I stuck with maintenance, because being addicted to subs, surely beats having to go out and try to cop heroin in the streets everyday, and find out how you are going to do so, and worry about all of that shit.. I don't know what would have happened to me with out this amazing medication, which is buprenorphine.. but glad I am happy, and got on it.. I believe it saved my life.

 

[bluesteyes]

I took my last Oxycodone IR around 8:30PM last night. I woke up at around 4:40am with big time withdrawals. I was leg kicking all over the place, agitated and restless. So I put the film on the inside of my check and slowly let it dissolve. I just got up at 4:40pm. I don't recall ever getting up to go to the restroom. I feel fine. No withdrawals, no nausea. It's been well past 8 hours, so I put another film in as soon as I got up.

Now when I went to bed last nite, I did take a 3mg Lunesta an a capful of Nyquil. I had taken a Klonopin around 6pm. I think I may have foolishly taken a .1mg Clonidine tablet and 2.5mg of Valium before applying the film this morning. Anyway, it was the best sleep I have enjoyed in ages, but it makes me worried. I was taking up to 90mg of IR Oxycodone per day. I don't see why he would've given me a dose of Subuxone (8mg-2mg SL, 3x per day) that wasn't roughly equivalent. It's just that I don't normally sleep that heavily. Again, I feel a little sedated (like we all do when arise), but I don't have any withdrawals, breathing issues, nausea, etc.

Anyone have any idea if what happened was perfectly okay or a reason for concern??? Perhaps I should cut down on some of the sedatives? The thing is, opioids have the strange effect of not sedating me. They can chill me out, but not sedate me and make me want to go to sleep. With he the way the timing is going to go with these things, I am most likely going to apply a film sometime near bed time.

I suppose I could also carry some toe nail clippers around with me, and if I feel the initial dosage is just too much, cut it down a tiny bit. I am glad my insurance covers this drug, because it makes tapering easier.

 

[Ilove2nod]

Ok a few things coming from a long time opiate addict and someone who is and has been on buprenorphine(subutex, which is buprenorphine without naloxone, in case you didn't know.)maint. for years.. You don't need to worry too much about taking low doses of benzos like klonopin and valium, alongside the suboxone, I used to take suboxone before getting on subutex, due to insurance issues and not being able to afford any form of bupe but subutex, and I am actually glad I am on subutex, I prefer it honestly.. I hate those strips.. I have been taking klonopin with bupe, for like 4 years now, and at one point was on doses up to 5-6mg of klonopin, with 8mg of suboxone a day... never had any adverse reactions, as subs aren't your typical opioid, and are not NEARLY as dangerous to take with benzodiazepines as oxycodone can be, IME at least.. and I know, tons of people on the same meds, subs and kpins, I think you are fine, so don't beat yourself up over that, not a big deal! Just as long as you don't take benzos too much, everyday, like I did, and now am dependent on not only subs, but benzos.. But I truly NEED benzos, I have tried other things like SSRIs and gabapentin before, and they just don't cut it for my anxiety level, its severe! not being dramatic either, benzos were designed for people just like myself.. Another thing, 24mg of suboxone is a stupidly high dose! Please don't waste your suboxone, and take any more than 16mg in one day at the very most! the ceiling dose for bupe is like 32 or 40mg I forget, one of the two I believe! I have always been okay at dose under 10mg, usually anywhere from 4-8mg a day throughout various points in my maintanence.. That has worked great, taking 2mg doses every 3-5 hours or so these days, amounting to around 8mg a day.. Also, it is totally normal to feel somewhat sedated, if not nod out from subs! Depending on the amount absorbed via sublingually, it can vary from dose to dose.. So I wouldn't worry. suboxone really isn't too dangerous of a drug, as long as the dose is kept below the ceiling dose, you should be fine, even mixing other sedatives with it, like kpin or valium, as long as you don't go overboard taking too many of either one, your probably fine! Suboxone/subutex, are very strange medications, they can make you sedated, somewhere in between sedated and energetic, and sometimes very energetic! Suboxone, seemed to give me a lot more energy while subutex is more sedating for whatever reason, and no, its not placebo or just something all in my head, it is really like that.. and I don't really know why.. So yeah, don't worry, your body is just getting used to the change from oxy to subs everyday, and just keep at it, it usually works out for most people, some like me though, do get set in their ways of taking bupe daily, and it can be hard to stop, so keep that in mind.. you may want to do a taper, depending on how badly your cravings for opiates are, without the sub, after you take it for long enough... like if I were to stop subs, there is no doubt in my mind, I would relapse on oxy or heroin! no doubt, I think I screwed up the wiring in my brain for ever! but who knows... Anwyays, you will be good, keep taking the subs, and remember 8mg or less, is best with sub! less is more with buprenorphine, ask anyone!

 

[bluesteyes]

It just felt extremely weird to sleep 12 hrs straight like that. Especially after I had already slept a few hours before the withdrawals kicked in. I am a chronic insomniac who usually has frequent awakenings, some in part due to the fact that I have interstitial cystitis (a bladder ailment that can cause me to pee frequently, especially at night while sleeping). Some of the awakenings are just inexplicable. I don't have sleep apnea. But man, I just slept like a log.

I think my doctor intends a quick taper with this stuff. I suspect when I come into his office again early next week, the next taper will be planned out What I also like about suboxone so far is the mood effect I am experiencing. It's not euphoria, but just a steady calmness. The last couple of days on 15mg IR oxycodone every 4 hrs just made me feel so damn depressed. I didn't want to get out of bed for anything. Even things like music, which I normally love, I wasn't interested in at all. Things are different now. I'm find pleasure in more things, despite feeling a bit more sedated than I usually feel on opioids. I do hope that some of this sedation does wear off though, because I need to go back to work next week.

 

[keeping]

I think my doctor intends a quick taper with this stuff. I suspect when I come into his office again early next week, the next taper will be planned out

i know that it sounds a bit daunting, but honestly man take it from me, thats the best option for you unless you literally want to be on sub maintenance for the rest of you life.
get out while you can cause sub wds are no joke

 

[Ilove2nod]

keeping is right.. I'm stuck on subutex, I don't know when I will ever be able to get off, after experiencing those withdrawls, I never want to again! Worst than any other opioid there is, besides methadone of course, which I believe takes the cake as far as being the worst opioid to withdrawl from because of its damn long half life..

 

[keeping]

^ yeah tell me about it Noddy, i'm stuck on subs too - tapering down and stockpiling detox meds and xanax but its still gonna be a bloody nightmare to kick them.

 

[Ilove2nod]

Oh yes it is.. I don't know wtf I would do, if suddenly I had no more subs or klonopin! I think I would be feeling pretty fucking awful, being a daily user of both of those for the past like 4 years or more.. Don't even want to think about it!

 

[bluesteyes]

I know it's tough, but can't you cut and taper down those films so that you aren't going thru totally agony when you finally say "that's it." I understand how it might get super tough if you're on the drug for years and years. Things do get tough when you get down to those final dosages. You feel your pain more, etc. What I am hoping is that the SSRI kicks in by the time I decide to remove the Subs totally from my routine.

 

[Ilove2nod]

yeah I am in deep with the opioid/sub addiction, I am truly beyond the point of just saying fuck it, and stopping that easily, or even just tapering.. over the years I have gone up and down and back up on bupe.. Was originally on 8mg, took that for like a year, then cut down to 4 for a bit, then 2.. stayed on 2mg for another year.. thought maybe I would be able to stop at some point, but then heroin got re-introduced to me, and I relapsed for a brief period of time, shooting dope, oxy, and dilaudid.. so then I went back up to 4mg a day after that incident, then 6mg, and finally I am back at 8mg a day again! I was having serious cravings, and was injured a few times at work, and I also fell off of my bike, and hurt myself badly, no bones were broken thankfully, but I was still in serious pain.. then I wanted to take some opiates BAD again! so I did, I took oxy, then before I knew it I was shooting dope AGAIN and did that for like 2-3 weeks, oxy, dilaudid, and dope, didn't relapse that time.. thank god. I recently just hurt myself again! or rather I was in an accident, someone hit me with a surfboard, and hurt me badly at the beach, hitting me with their board in the head, and my back and I was truly craving something to take away the pain, but now being on 8mg a day of bupe, I didn't even bother getting any dope, or pharms.. just took aleve and subs and stuck it out, even though where I was injured felt like someone was stabbing with a knife in my entire back, twisting it in there and shit ... it fucking hurt! But, Subs, I have found out over the years aren't very good pain killers at all, no matter the dose, I have used them in microgram doses, while in pain and had LESS pain relief, even though less is supposed to be more.. I don't entirely buy into that theory, I do know that when I take 2mg at a time and space out my doses, it works like a charm, doing that 4x a day IV, so the duration lasts much shorter, but still works amazingly well seeing as I get 100% BA, although it is not smart and I regret doing it because now I am not just an addict of subs, I am an IV sub addict, but would have been much better off sticking with the rectal route, plugging them, which OWNS the sublingual ROA, and is entirely harmless too, it was great, until needles were in my life again, and me being me had to go and start banging my sub.... If I tried to kick subs, I would no doubt be back on dope and oxy... for sure! I'm not negative, I am a realist! and I know, with my brain re-wired over the years by all of the substances I have abused, it will never be easy nor will I be happy being totally sober, ever! I like drugs, plain and simple, and cant stand feeling sober, I like having an altered state of mind all day everyday, and also need certain drugs, like benzos and amphetamines to feel like a normal human being.. and have no desire to stop using my scripts. So some say I am wrong, and would feel better sober, but they aren't me! how the fuck could they know how I would feel, I would hate it, having anxiety, panic attacks, being extremely shy and bad at talking to others, and never get sleep, on top of ADHDing out all the fucking time, spacing out, not hearing people when they tell me something, and not being able to remember any thing I just read, amongst other things... I am content for now.. hope to stay that way, and again, have absolutely no desire to stop my meds.. maybe subs one day, but the other 2 I need for my life and living it the right way..

 

[bluesteyes]

I feel for you Ilove2nod. The doc who prescribed me the subuxone told me of a patient that he has who was an IV smack addict for many years. Got on subuxone, did great, got down to the lowest dosage, and just absolutely couldn't get beyond it. Something in her system just snapped and almost disabled her ability to stop taking subuxone. So she's been on it for years and years and years. The great news? She has never gone back to heroin again. The low dose subuxone is all she needs to get thru life. It's a sucky situation, but obviously, the lesser of two evils for her.

 

[Shaleh]

I'm too tired to write a long post after working 13 hrs so let me say that I've dabbled with Suboxone the past four years off and on.

Negatives: bad ass mirgaines no matter the dose, insomnia no matter what time of day I dose, wired feeling like with addys or tramadol (when noy feeling sick off them)
(I've never NOT felt withdrawal symptoms with the 1st few doses of Subx no matter how many hours/days taken after last dose of opiates. I feel chilled, puke, gross. I once waited 36 hrs and still felt like shit.

Positives: once the bad feelings go away and you get your dose right, the withdrawals go away. After about 3 days you tend to feel normal again.
Sucks because once your body gets used to Subx, you gotta have it.

Good luck. All our bodies/brains are different.

 

[Choose Life]

Takes a year for your relectors to heal
By that time your hooked but much better than a habit
Try to stay under 12mg so the taper won't be so long getting off
Have a clear plan for when you plan to start tapering and finally getting off

 

[Ilove2nod]

I feel for you Ilove2nod. The doc who prescribed me the subuxone told me of a patient that he has who was an IV smack addict for many years. Got on subuxone, did great, got down to the lowest dosage, and just absolutely couldn't get beyond it. Something in her system just snapped and almost disabled her ability to stop taking subuxone. So she's been on it for years and years and years. The great news? She has never gone back to heroin again. The low dose subuxone is all she needs to get thru life. It's a sucky situation, but obviously, the lesser of two evils for her.

Yup.. that is exactly how I look at it, its better I am doing subutex even if I am doing it IV, than doing dope any ROA, any day! That life, was no fun after I truly became addicted, and getting heroin became like my biggest priority in life! That sucked, especially when I would get up in the morning, never being able to save anything for the next day when I woke up sick, and then trying to get ahold of dope, or any opioid/opiate to get me through my day at work.. it was usually very hard to come up on early in the morning, when everyone was still asleep... then when I would get ahold of one of my connects early morning, they would always give me the run around, and get mad for waking them up... say they would say they would meet me, and never show up, after sitting in some random sketchy gas station parking lot for hours! shit like that made me hate being an opiate addict.. it fucking sucked! So glad I have bupe, I am pretty sure, doing heroin daily along with my prescribed klonopin, which I used to always do, and is super dangerous.. would have led to my OD and most probably death, as I also liked to do coke too, which is extremely dangerous to mix all 3 of them.. anyways, now that I finally have the right meds scripted to me, life is good, as I now have no NEED to self-medicate with opiates or coke... which is basically what I did, and how I got on both of those to take away anxiety and attempt to help my ADHD, which coke didn't even do, I just simply liked the feeling of the 2 together. I am so thankful for subs, and how easy they are for most people to get prescribed!