Getting clean

[psytaco]

It's now 2014 and I have made a few new year's resolutions that mostly revolve around getting healthy. My mental health has greatly improved since halfway through mid 2013 so I thought that I should give away my crutches and get clean.

Drug use for me has turned into abuse over the last year or two. I am currently addicted to lowish amounts of codeine (100-150mg a day). To make it worse, I haven't been doing CWE's which I know if I keep going I will do damage to myself. After a day of not using codeine, I do go through withdrawals. They're not horrible, similar to having a cold (the runs, some nausea, feeling cold, some aches and pains, being in a bad mood). I was taking codeine regularly as for half of the year I was suffering bad upper back pain, plus it helped with my depression and anxiety.

So the things I am quitting/tapering:
1) Codeine. I'm just going to go cold turkey. With some immodium it is not too bad. I just have to make sure I stay off it.
2) Mirtazapine - I was taking 30mg for most of the year. I have tapered to 15mg with minimal withdrawal apart from the odd brain zap. My appetite has greatly reduced which is great, as I have put on approx 10kg since starting it. I haven't taken it for two days as I took two caps of MDMA over NYE and I didn't want to risk something like serotonin syndrome. I am thinking I might just discontinue taking it from now on, but if I start feeling really shitty. I will start back on 7.5mg and stay at that for a week (which is generally how long it takes for the zaps to stop) and then discontinue.
3) cigarettes. I am sick of smoking. I haven't smoked since NYE and with the gum it is fine. However, staying off cigarettes has always been difficult for me. Apart from the negative impact it has on my health, it is way to expensive and I can save about $100 a week just by quitting.

Things I need to be careful with:
Valium: I have been prescribed it but generally only take 5-10mg twice a week for 6 months. I recently stopped for 10 days and had no withdrawal. The last week I have used more frequently and used 40mg last night (for a comedown). I have 50mg left just in case I somehow got myself addicted, but I doubt it will be a problem. I am going to save it for emergencies.

I am thinking of only using other drugs occassionally and for special events. Whether that be the odd trip on a psych (like once or twice a year). Or taking a bit of MDMA for my birthday or a concert. I'm planning on doing that no more than several times a year. I will keep drinking but that is something I only do socially and once a week at most. The only problem it creates is that it could start me smoking again or using other drugs.

Do you guys have any tips or advice? I would really like to do this. I need to start being healthier and concentrating on more important and less damaging things in life.

I am thinking of visiting a doctor in a week or so and getting some bloodwork done to make sure that my liver and kidneys are ok. I am planning on going to a different doctor and just being completely honest. Good idea? Are their any other organs I should have checked out?

Also, do you think it is worth getting in contact with a drug and alcohol abuse centre (a free one) like Turning Point and asking them for advice and maybe going to some group meetings or is this overkill?

Any advice/comments welcome.

 

[zzz101]

I don't have much advice for you as what to do. But in my experience-

i think i was depressed since i can remember. i really hated feeling any sort of anxiety. So i think one of the things i did to mask the problems was with drugs; always wanted/liked getting high on something. i didn't really know that this behavior was because of depression(maybe it is) but now i do.

Then after being almost(pretty-much) sober for the last 11-12 months (only smoked weed, used opiates maybe twice, did mxe a dozen times) i noticed that sober life is better but you don't notice that at first. when you're sober it can be a nightmare. life can be comjplete shit- more so than u were on drugs.

- being sober you have tiny little moments where its a natural high, they are completely worth it, and is whats needed in life. Some moments you just feel so clear-headed and every thing is great.

But of-course life is a trip. it has it ups and downs. sometimes i feel I'll be better taking heaps more drugs and have the bad side-effects from them. than i would if i was 100% sober. this is not true.

the first 2-3 weeks are hard. then comes easy. then after a few months ur mind will come up with heaps of excuses to start using drugs again. ur mind will trick you. imo the hardest part is at the 3 month stage.


i think you could tell a doctor your situation and have him sus u out. But idk, its up to you on that.

 

[Halif]

Some wise words indeed, zzz101.

It's a longer road than some expect, and it's important to remember that time goes crazy when you take drugs and then crazier still when you stop. Minutes can seem like hours, and that's not what you want when you're going through some hardcore WD shit. Acute stage is bad, but it's the weeks and months AFTER that that really fuck you up.

Do you guys have any tips or advice?

Just two things:

1. Long-acting shit like immodium (loperamide) and valium (diazepam) will take the edge off in the short term, and put the hard angles back in the long term. Accept that there's going to be some suffering involved and just get it out of the way.

2. Don't beat yourself too much if/when you relapse. It's likely to happen, but who said that's gonna put you back to square one?! It doesn't have to. ANY EFFORT that you make to clean up is worth it. Totally worth it. Do it step by step. You don't have to nail it on the first try.

That's it. FWIW.

Best of luck. It's all worth it.

 

[mostly-human]

No major advice except to say: Don't ever underestimate the harm you can do by taking too much paracetamol.

 

[CrayZ]

I'm on board to do the same thing. I didn't make it a new years resolution, because I find them a bit cliche (plus i've still got some meth left i need to finish b4 i start work again on monday). I don't have any real advice yet, beyond immersing yourself in other tasks you enjoy doing. Though tapering right off pot in the last few years to practically being pot-free in the last two weeks i've actually found easy (but it could just be the meth - which when combined with mj just makes me super edgy and anxious) - i do really enjoy the clear headedness and not waking up with a 'stone-over'.

If I find something worthwhile sharing i'll let u know. And good luck - i'm sure you'll find plenty of support on this forum.

 

[infectedmushroom]

Good on ya psy! As has been said any and all attempts at getting clean/healthier are good ones IMO. We have a very win or lose, succeed or fail culture, and I don't think it's a healthy attitude at all!

I'm with you in that I'm trying to kick codeine (again) as well. 6 months of use, like you, at double the amount though, and I'm about 30 hours into CT so I'm not that happy but ima try tough it out.

Good luck mate - if at first we don't succeed, we just have to try and try again.

 

[Halif]

We have a very win or lose, succeed or fail culture, and I don't think it's a healthy attitude at all!

Very well put. It's not healthy or realistic.

Why do things need to be so cut and dry? With something hard like a big detox it's important to have the firm intention to really see it through - otherwise it's not going to happen. But where did we get the idea that there's only one chance? And if there's a setback (relapse) then it's a total failure and can never be tried again?

I wasted so much time in the past berating myself after "failing" to get clean, and the worst part was - like zzz101 was saying about the mind and its tricks - that low self-esteem became another excuse to actually increase my drug use with the logic that 'well, I'll never be able to stop using drugs so what's the difference? I may as well resign myself to the fact and go all out'.

That kind of defeatist thinking actually left me in worse situations than I had started off in....

sometimes i feel I'll be better taking heaps more drugs and have the bad side-effects from them. than i would if i was 100% sober. this is not true.

 

[catching fish]

Good luck mate. You are not alone - I find it helps to keep that in mind.

 

[psytaco]

Thanks for all of the advice and well wishes guys.

It's been 5/6 days now and I haven't had any opiates or cigarettes.

The first two days off codeine were only mildly painful - just feeling pretty cold, the runs and a runny nose. Now I feel fine. I also managed to go out and get drunk and not have a cigarette. Don't miss them at all (although I had a dream last night about buying a pack haha).

I dropped down to 7.5mg of mirtazapine and didn't take any last night (although I did need to take some antihistamines plus melatonin to sleep). So now I am planning on being off them completely. I have managed to lose about 3kg since dropping my dosage from 30mg about 2 weeks ago. Hoping the weight will continue to go now that I am off it completely. I'll be combining it with some pretty regular exercise. I'm noticing that I look skinnier.

I did manage to get hold of 8mg suboxone. It would be nice to get high. I was thinking of snorting no more than 1mg tomorrow (I heard it is pretty easy to get sick from the stuff). Is this a bad idea? Should I wait a bit longer between doing this and withdrawing? Don't want to suddenly start withdrawing from a suboxone dose.

 

[Captain Brewster]

^ well done on the effort so far, but I really think doing some subs will take you back to where you where in the first place.

1mg is a fairly high dose for a non-tolerant user. Id start lower @ .5 or even .25 and work your way up from there. It lasts a while, and if you over dose it, you could be feeling quite shitty for a good few hours.

 

[psytaco]

^ well done on the effort so far, but I really think doing some subs will take you back to where you where in the first place.

1mg is a fairly high dose for a non-tolerant user. Id start lower @ .5 or even .25 and work your way up from there. It lasts a while, and if you over dose it, you could be feeling quite shitty for a good few hours.

cheers man. Yeah you're probably right in that it would be wise to just lay off any opiate for a while. I was just excited at the prospect of actually getting a decent high from an opiate instead of just fucking codeine which might give the slightest tingle (if that) but really just keeps the WDs at bay.

Opiates really are the most insidious of drugs. They really do worm their way into our psyche to make us think using them whenever we want is perfectly fine and that to risk going back to addiction isn't that bad. Far worse than benzos, cocaine and even meth in that regards.

So yeah, will holding off for a couple more days from trying the subs make it better (haha you can see I would really like to get high)? I'll try and keep it less than 1mg, the only problem is that is an 8mg pill so dividing the thing up to really small amounts is going to be difficult. I have done subs before and got a decent high off it (not amazing like oxy but decent) but I think I may have done only .5mg or something similar as it was a 2mg pill. Would you recommend snorting the dosage too?

 

[Christ!]

So yeah, will holding off for a couple more days from trying the subs make it better (haha you can see I would really like to get high)? I'll try and keep it less than 1mg, the only problem is that is an 8mg pill so dividing the thing up to really small amounts is going to be difficult. I have done subs before and got a decent high off it (not amazing like oxy but decent) but I think I may have done only .5mg or something similar as it was a 2mg pill. Would you recommend snorting the dosage too?

Since you've been off the codeine a while taking the sub will only set you back. Taking a 1mg dose once would be a bit like taking 150mg of codeine twice a day for a few days.

Might be hard to resist. but an 8mg tablet is just so much opiate for someone who was on 150mg codeine a day.

Good luck and well done so far

 

[Captain Brewster]

And with insufflation, I'm vaguely sure that the bioavailability rises a good 20%. Take that into consideration.

With no opiate tolerance (shit, that seems like a while back now ) I enjoyed codeine a hell of a lot more than bupe.

 

[Halif]

I enjoyed codeine a hell of a lot more than bupe.

Me too, and I still do. I don't know why but bupe doesn't agree with me. It feels weird to me, but then I can say that about pretty much any synthetic opioid. I like the poppy derivatives: codeine, h, morphine, and the mother herself, opium. Good opium is unbeatable for someone who's not into rushes but likes full bodied, full-spectrum effects which last for many, many hours. I'm talking about real opium, not PST or even pod tea (although I like both of those, too%) )

Opiates really are the most insidious of drugs. They really do worm their way into our psyche to make us think using them whenever we want is perfectly fine and that to risk going back to addiction isn't that bad. Far worse than benzos, cocaine and even meth in that regards.

Opiates/opioids certainly do get into your very being if you get into them enough. So does alcohol, though. If you've ever experienced a problem with drinking, chances are you've had the same thing where your mind will not stop thinking up excuses of why it'll be alright to just have one or two drinks.

I would never say opiates are worse than benzos in the creep in factor, though. Just my experience, but nothing is more insidious and under the radar than a substance which you forget taking and then take another one.. or five. Benzos by themselves, not used as a tool but as an attempt to get stoned or high or whatever, are the most futile and destructive and insidious substances. They seem to do so little, and it can be damn near impossible to actually recnognise the extent to which you're under their influence. Also, the addiction is utterly unforgiving and the withdrawals are way, way out of proportion for the effects of the drug.

At least when you use a powerful opiate, you notice something. I wrote recently about my superfluous stupidity in abusing phenazepam and the dire consequences of the aftermath. During the abuse there was times whereby I thought I'd done something to the powder to render it inert, but after stopping for a few days was hit by the most twisted, mind-soup, dissociating, panic attack inducing hell I've ever experienced. And I've learned from bitter experience that once you're in the middle of full-blown benzo withdrawal, you can't stop it quickly -even with more benzos. It gains momentum and even if you cave in and start taking the same dose as before, it takes a whole day or two for the WDs to properly dissipate.

Now that's a nasty substance.

 

[opi8]

Yeah that sounds bad. Thankfully I've never been through it and thanks to this forum, and posts like yours, I hope to keep my usage sporadic and only when I really need it therapeutically. The one good thing (which may not be a good thing depending on your outlook) about heroin withdrawals is the fact that if you're sick of it and had enough, relief is only a shot away. Then back on the merry-go-round.

 

[missmeyet?]

Very well put. It's not healthy or realistic.

Why do things need to be so cut and dry? With something hard like a big detox it's important to have the firm intention to really see it through - otherwise it's not going to happen. But where did we get the idea that there's only one chance? And if there's a setback (relapse) then it's a total failure and can never be tried again?

I wasted so much time in the past berating myself after "failing" to get clean, and the worst part was - like zzz101 was saying about the mind and its tricks - that low self-esteem became another excuse to actually increase my drug use with the logic that 'well, I'll never be able to stop using drugs so what's the difference? I may as well resign myself to the fact and go all out'.

That kind of defeatist thinking actually left me in worse situations than I had started off in....

Very well said.

 

[lovepsychadelics]

No major advice except to say: Don't ever underestimate the harm you can do by taking too much paracetamol.

Yeah my LFT's were a bit off after doing a bit to much half assed CWE's but eventually they are back to normailsh now days. Although my CWE's are a lot better as I take more time with them sometimes I don't make the effort and end up chomping 5-6 grams paracetamol with the codeine. I know this will end up causing my liver more stress and long term damage. It's pretty fucked when you know it's going to damage your health but coming of a meth binge health is often the last thing on your mind.

Of late it's been sobriety, relapse and then acceptance. I don't smoke anymore. I may smoke a spliff every now and then. I might use psychedelics. My real issue is meth and it's a bitch. It's nothing special as far as drugs go but it makes me feel more normal, functional. I do not get much euphoria I really don't understand when people say it's euphoric to me it's not. I like almost any ROA other than smoking. But now I have a handle on it more so than what I have in the past. Maybe I'm becoming a more responsible recreational drug user?

 

[indybreaker]

I strongly advise to re think my opinion as I'm a all or nothing guy.read my thread in the darkside as I was have a similar story of drugs I wanted to quit.I'm on the dumphone so can't copy the link for u

 

[psytaco]

Congratulations on your first steps to sobriety!

I unfortunately have gone the other way and after being quite responsible with my drug use (and actually thinking i'd grown up enough to use it occasionally) have now lapsed into a between 20-30mg diazepam habit a day. It's been 37 days of constant use. I know I should probably post this in the benzo thread but my question is definitely relating to complete sobriety, how bad would WD be after 37days of 20-30mg average valium habit? Ive used benzos irreguarly through the years as comedown aids/to prevent the odd panic attack but I fell into a groove where it has really helped me to actually get into my new workplace socially and become a part of the team where I normally would have been extremely shy/reserved. I have access to more diazepam and also oxazepam. Will I need to taper dosage after 37 days of constant use to prevent extreme withdrawals or will I be fine just flushing what I have left and going cold turkey?

I'd be going to a doctor and organising a tapering regime with them. You'll probably get a lecture but it is better that you do it properly. I had a daily habit that was slightly longer and a bit higher, but yeah I still went through withdrawals that were pretty bad even with the taper.

Stopping cold turkey will potentially put you in some quite painful withdrawals (you may on the otherhand get lucky). Good luck dude. Benzo withdrawal is no joke but it is better to be stopping sooner rather than later.

 

[Dr Phibes]

A taper that worked well for me was to drop to 5mg each morning for a week then 6 in the second week, pick a day to skip. Then 5 the next week, pick the best two days like say Tuesday and Thursday. On the seventh week (down to only 1) I took it on the first day of the week, but you can pick any day, and I was free. It got easier as each week went by and was quite painless.